Paid health care is literally insane.

[oleander89]

excert from human right declaration , United Nations, 1948

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

and in more detail about healthcare
Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Saudi Arabia was elected to the UN Women's Rights commission in April. Let's not pretend like the organization has any credibility, or power for that matter.

[Eurytos]

blah blah blah....But to you, with your wide open mind, everyone who doesn't think like you is just some brainwashed Fox News idiot.

Wrong. It's not everyone. Right now, its just you. But at least you agree that Fox News is brainwashing. You aren't totally helpless.

Jon Oliver is a comedian. Who is also british. Not sure what you think the words "partisan Hack" mean, but they certainly don't apply to him. lol. And if you don't think advertisers have any effect, what the hell do you think all this nonsense with Keurig and other companies pulling out of Hannity(and Beitbart, among others) is doing? It's causing a stink. Advertisers are dropping like crazy, that absolutely effect what a TV network does. Do you think Hannity will stick around on air if no one will advertise on his show? lol, again, totally naive.

Of course we have access to the same data, thats what I've been saying. And the conclusions you have come to are wrong. That's why we are arguing. You just disagree with facts. I disagree with distorting of those facts. None of this is new, not to America, not to the world. America is the last in a long line of modern countries to finally come along on this. We aren't there yet, but it is inevitable. And the reason it is inevitable, just like renewable energy about to crush nonrenewables (believe me I know, I'm from Louisiana which depends heavily on oil and gas, and we are suffering, we are having to figure out new ways to boost our economies, moving away from oil and gas is the only logical choice), is because of the economic incentives. It not only will be the moral choice, but it will be an economic one. You can't turn back that tide once it becomes more profitable. It will be unsustainable to do anything else. Obamacare was just the first step, we aren't going backwards. It just won't be profitable for insurance companies anymore, it will be profitable for the rest of us.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

The very concept that Health Care is a good is making my stomach turn.

It's not a good, it's not a service. It should be basic human rights.

Money serves to pay good food, good drinks, material goods, houses, cars, clothes. You don't want to contribute, you'll have shitty stuff in your life and that's the natural consequence of not "providing for your country". But healthcare, basic water and to some extent basic food are things that every human being should have access to.

[Kithelle]

Hmm, I don't know anyone who's 100% covered. Good for them. I work for the standard Fortune 500 Company. They give me 20 options of healthcare and they pay up to $520 and I pay the rest. Even then, my health insurance cost is around $800 a month. I go for the middle the road package. I could go super cheap and get near 100% coverage, but deductibles are around $3000. So it's free as long as I don't use it. :P

I'll agree overall the system has become quiet broke. Not sure what the fix will be other than the Govt taking it over.

Don't know if I'd have much faith in it being fixed if the government took it over

[Protean]

Why do Americans make people pay thousands of dollars for health care still? It doesn't make any moral or logical sense.

Because that way they can tell each other they have a choice in what they spend their money on, and the big bad gubmint isn't coming to tax them.


Paying out of your own pocket for health care is the same as tax, but worse

[Hiricine]

excert from human right declaration , United Nations, 1948

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

and in more detail about healthcare
Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Citing the UN as the arbiter of a philosophical truth is like the King declaring the world flat.

[oleander89]

Wrong. It's not everyone. Right now, its just you. But at least you agree that Fox News is brainwashing. You aren't totally helpless.

Jon Oliver is a comedian. Who is also british. Not sure what you think the words "partisan Hack" mean, but they certainly don't apply to him. lol. And if you don't think advertisers have any effect, what the hell do you think all this nonsense with Keurig and other companies pulling out of Hannity(and Beitbart, among others) is doing? It's causing a stink. Advertisers are dropping like crazy, that absolutely effect what a TV network does. Do you think Hannity will stick around on air if no one will advertise on his show? lol, again, totally naive.

Of course we have access to the same data, thats what I've been saying. And the conclusions you have come to are wrong. That's why we are arguing. You just disagree with facts. I disagree with distorting of those facts. None of this is new, not to America, not to the world. America is the last in a long line of modern countries to finally come along on this. We aren't there yet, but it is inevitable. And the reason it is inevitable, just like renewable energy about to crush nonrenewables (believe me I know, I'm from Louisiana which depends heavily on oil and gas, and we are suffering, we are having to figure out new ways to boost our economies, moving away from oil and gas is the only logical choice), is because of the economic incentives. It not only will be the moral choice, but it will be an economic one. You can't turn back that tide once it becomes more profitable. It will be unsustainable to do anything else. Obamacare was just the first step, we aren't going backwards. It just won't be profitable for insurance companies anymore, it will be profitable for the rest of us.

If Hannity was controlled by advertisers, he'd have been apologizing, not taunting Keurig. I look forward to renewables replacing fossil fuels. No matter my position on climate matters, I think that would be a good thing. When it becomes economically viable, it will flourish and crush fossil fuels and that is exciting. I do think fossil fuels provide a great benefit for us currently, but when renewables overtake them, I cannot see how that would be bad.

As for healthcare, I am sorry, but you are still wrong. And I'm at least aware that Republicans will never repeal Obamacare or go for a free market solution. You should know better than to think these politicians will give you UHC while they are still answering to lobbyists.

[Eurytos]

If Hannity was controlled by advertisers, he'd have been apologizing, not taunting Keurig. I look forward to renewables replacing fossil fuels. No matter my position on climate matters, I think that would be a good thing. When it becomes economically viable, it will flourish and crush fossil fuels and that is exciting. I do think fossil fuels provide a great benefit for us currently, but when renewables overtake them, I cannot see how that would be bad.

As for healthcare, I am sorry, but you are still wrong. And I'm at least aware that Republicans will never repeal Obamacare or go for a free market solution. You should know better than to think these politicians will give you UHC while they are still answering to lobbyists.

Lol, you must have missed tonight where he literally gave Roy Moire an ultimatum to prove he’s not a sexual predator? You think he did that on his own? Or maybe, just maybe it was all those companies saying they weren’t gonna advertise in a show that supports pedophiles? You honestly can’t be this naive? This is capitalism at work, baby!!

I think the facts favor my position in the long run on healthcare. See literally every other modern, and some not so modern, countries as exhibits A-Z.
Everything else you said, I can’t argue with. The path to Universal coverage does likely pass through citizens united and changing how lobbyists have access. It won’t happen overnight, that’s for sure. See, it only took 40 responses and 10 pages to get you to agree with me. If I wasn’t going to bed, I bet I’d have you calling Congress by the morning to stop this tax bill.

[oleander89]

Lol, you must have missed tonight where he literally gave Roy Moire an ultimatum to prove he’s not a sexual predator? You think he did that on his own? Or maybe, just maybe it was all those companies saying they weren’t gonna advertise in a show that supports pedophiles? You honestly can’t be this naive? This is capitalism at work, baby!!

I think the facts favor my position in the long run on healthcare. See literally every other modern, and some not so modern, countries as exhibits A-Z.
Everything else you said, I can’t argue with. The path to Universal coverage does likely pass through citizens united and changing how lobbyists have access. It won’t happen overnight, that’s for sure. See, it only took 40 responses and 10 pages to get you to agree with me. If I wasn’t going to bed, I bet I’d have you calling Congress by the morning to stop this tax bill.

You didn't get me to agree with you as I never changed any of my positions.

[psiko74]

my uncle has cancer and had to quit his job just so he could get on medicaid. obamcare would have cost way too much.

[joi-]

You're just rephrasing the same question, and you've already glazed over the answer apparently, but whatever.

If we implemented universal healthcare, several things would suffer: private innovation, military, scientific endeavors. The US already spends well above the NATO recommended amount of GDP spent on defense. In fact, it's twice that of many other NATO members. South Korea would have already been annexed by North Korea if there weren't American troops stationed there. If you live in a NATO country, America is obligated to protect you with all of its big scary guns.

I don't live in a NATO country AND we have universal healthcare.

[Deleted]

The very concept that Health Care is a good is making my stomach turn.

It's not a good, it's not a service. It should be basic human rights.

Money serves to pay good food, good drinks, material goods, houses, cars, clothes. You don't want to contribute, you'll have shitty stuff in your life and that's the natural consequence of not "providing for your country". But healthcare, basic water and to some extent basic food are things that every human being should have access to.

So who's going to pay for all that?

[Deleted]

So who's going to pay for all that?

Arent you already paying for it?
I mean taxes must be used to subsidize the costs to some extent, then ontop of that you pay a insurance company also (or your employer does, which is factored into the total cost of you as an employee, meanings it´s at the cost of some salary).
And they together with the medical industry keep the prices high, so you cant afford to chance it without insurance if something WOULD happen.
The more expensive drugs and treatment is, the better for insurance companies as more people will be dependent on them. And obviously it´s better for the companies making medicine and equipment aswell.

So it sorta seems like you´re paying twice just to be in the system, then when you NEED it, costs will go up since when you´re not just idly putting money into the insurance company, when you´re actually getting something back from them, they´ll be wanting more money since it´s not a charity.

I could be wrong on a bunch of things, but that´s what it looks like from where Im standing.
And some people would rather do this, then pay via taxes, potentially less in total as things could probably be cheaper when there´s not profit driven insurance companies benefiting from inflated costs, just to NOT accidentally help anyone but themselves.
Then some of these people go out and fight stuff like gay marriage with their "pick and choose" christian values, if one may go on a tangent..

[Echoherb]

you dont need healthcare to be healthy. its not a right and no one deserves it.

Some people do need healthcare to be healthy, and the people who can't afford it are the people who need it the most.

[breadisfunny]

no one has a right to be healthy

keep moving those goalposts.

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John Oliver is a comedian.

to be fair john oliver was hilariousy funny when he was paired on the daily show with john stewart since his jokes were not made up entirely by him. on his new show i find his jokes to be entirely hit or miss and for me anyways a lot of them are miss not because of the poltical leanings of them but because of how they are set up and executed.

- - - Updated - - -

Companies with over 50 employees are required by law to provide health insurance to employees who work over 30 hours. It's highly unlikely that a teacher at a private school cannot get benefits from her job.

i hear it's hard to hire a shitton of part-time workers. in fact it's what a lot of companies do to get around the obligation to provide insurance. not only do they not have to provide any insurance then but they look like they are providing jobs to the community. lol yeah 5-20hrs a week is real good paying.

[Echoherb]

What do you do with people who choose terrible life decisions that lead to massive healthcare bill?. If you choose to be sedentary, smoke and consume a poor diet which leads to you costing the system far more than the person who choose to take care of themselves should you not have consequences? I'm not saying all people who have higher cost are due to their choices but it is a large number that are. You would be shocked at the number of people who have surgery and then choose to ignore their post op protocol and end up back in surgery costing the system a lot more.

No those people shouldn't have consequences, because there are too many factors that go into people's personal decisions as to what affects their health. Smoking we know is a powerful addiction that a lot of people want to quit but can't. Addiction is not a personal choice, it's a disease that needs a lot of work to overcome. Someone may be sedentary because they have depression or muscle pain. And don't even get me started on diet - considering the government spent 30 years trying to convince us to eat a low saturated fat diet and follow the food pyramid which we know now is complete nonsense, I definitely don't want the government mandating my food choices. The point is, these decisions aren't always a choice, and making them cost more will just be another cost affecting poor people.

[Blade Wolf]

What's the issue with paid health care anyway?

Why should I pay for the people that did something stupid and nearly killed themselves or got cancer from smoking too much?


Feels like I'm being punished for being healthy.

You do know that there are like a million fucking other factors that can make a person ill that is beyond their control?

[pateuvasiliu]

You do know that there are like a million fucking other factors that can make a person ill that is beyond their control?

Yeah, genetics.


Curious how people want to abort and control the breeding of people with Down's but are fine with cancer.

[Echoherb]

The problem is these people are living in the fantasy that every thing that happens to people is a personal choice. People who are in poverty don't choose to be in poverty, and they shouldn't have to suffer just because they can't afford to pay to be healthy.

[truckboattruck]

keep moving those goalposts.

- - - Updated - - -.

i dont think you understand how that phrase is meant to be used.

but thats beside the point.if you want health insurance then go buy it.
and if you don't like how insurance works then dont buy it.