Classic Vs Classic+

[doot]

Look, there has been a fight for this for a long time by people who have been playing vanilla as it was on servers that they can. We are the ones who pushed for this and now that it is happening there is a bunch of people coming out saying they need to add this/that. These are NOT the people who have been fighting for Legacy/Classic. These are tourists and they need to get out or come experience it in full

There's a logical fallacy that describes what you're doing here it involves bag pipes....

Yes it does. very clearly. if you want ANY changes that are not server based improvements to the SERVERS themselves, improved stability etc (knowing that the old servers are gone, so this is going to happen, for sure, without question), then you want Classic+. and i am TOTALLY ok with that, it really doesnt bother me at all.

A: you didn't prove whether or not people are intentionally trying to split the community. Should we assume you concede that point?
B: It doesn't though because you're talking about only two types of servers and it is absurd to assume that Blizzard is going to even do more than one kind of server for Classic and what we'd need in your system is more than that. We're talking at least 5, probably more.

[Novakhoro]

There's a logical fallacy that describes what you're doing here it involves bag pipes....

Sure, it is fallacious. As is the slippery slope, but I would argue that the slippery slope is a very real concern when dealing with these servers. Incremental changes is what got us to modern WoW. I challenge you to find anyone from 6 months ago asking for Vanilla wow servers with added QoL bullshit or class balancing. Please

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Lets just draw the battle lines please.
If you want vanilla as it was, with the ONLY additions being server side changes for stability and server performance, you want WoW : Classic.

If you want vanilla but with balance, things fixed / changed, additions such as new models, lfg/lfr ANYTHING other than a pure vanilla experience, you want WoW: Classic+.

now lets just start using those terms, and 90% of the threads on here will die. you are either Classic, or, you are Classic+.

You're Welcome.

If you want vanilla patch 1.12 because you have only played on private servers then you want private servers.
If you want Vanilla as it was you want it with dozens of changes coming within 10 major patches across about a year and a half. You want it to start with and entirely different philosophy as it ended and you want that philosophy to be extrapolated to something that makes sense in 2018.

The sad part is, most of you don't even realize how absurd this discussion is. You are basically asking for patch 1.12 only, despite it being one of 11 patches the expansion had and existing only 3 months before TBC was out and changed the entire game.

I really wish you could just go away and play private servers.

This is no such thing as a "pure vanilla experience" because the game changed more times than any other expansion. "things fixed / changed" is basically what the game was all about back then and if it wasn't for TBC Classic as we know it wouldn't even exist. Imagine if all the stuff added in 2.0 was added in 1.13 instead?

[doot]

Sure, it is fallacious.

And are you able to see how it doesn't help you at all to be that way? You're trying to create an out-group and it isn't going to help you get what you want. In this case you're making accusations that are only going to make things increasingly unpleasant up until and likely after the launch of the server.

As is the slippery slope, but I would argue that the slippery slope is a very real concern when dealing with these servers. Incremental changes is what got us to modern WoW.

I really don't have as much problem with this particular fallacy given as you point out that is what got us to Modern WoW and Blizzard have proven themselves to engage in slope lubing.

I challenge you to find anyone from 6 months ago asking for Vanilla wow servers with added QoL bullshit or class balancing. Please

Why would they? The discussion at the time was for them to even exist to begin with. You had a united goal at the time to at least get Blizzard to pay attention to your desires. Now that this goal was accomplished a new situation has been setup creating for a situation where new divisions to spawn. It's no different from politics in the real world.

[Novakhoro]

Why would they? The discussion at the time was for them to even exist to begin with. You had a united goal at the time to at least get Blizzard to pay attention to your desires. Now that this goal was accomplished a new situation has been setup creating for a situation where new divisions to spawn. It's no different from politics in the real world.

Then those people do not want vanilla. They want something else. Vanilla is what we asked for and honestly if they make any large QoL changes or things like spec balancing it will actually destroy the game. Spec tuning would have far reaching implications. Basically, if you know you don't want Vanilla that is fine... dont play vanilla. If you'd like to try it out then come see how it is. But you can't be at a party, see another party going on with good food on the table, come grab the food then start changing the music and tweaking the lights. You let them have their motherfucking party.

[doot]

Then those people do not want vanilla. They want something else. Vanilla is what we asked for and honestly if they make any large QoL changes or things like spec balancing it will actually destroy the game. Spec tuning would have far reaching implications. Basically, if you know you don't want Vanilla that is fine... dont play vanilla. If you'd like to try it out then come see how it is. But you can't be at a party, see another party going on with good food on the table, come grab the food then start changing the music and tweaking the lights. You let them have their motherfucking party.

That's where your groups will have to agree to disagree. For some an altered version is what they want and honestly there isn't going to be a point in one group getting in heated arguments over it because we're talking about things that are a matter of opinion. The best you can do is campaign for why yours is the more appealing. The shouting matches aren't going to win people from one side to another I don't think.

[Kilee25]

I will be happy with whatever we get, but I think it's a tad naive to expect plain Vanilla with zero changes whatsoever.

I'm also in agreement with many of the other posters in saying that there's a huge difference between people who want quality of life changes, and people who just want some of the more inane things addressed.

I certainly agree that there's some kind of "slippery slope" that needs to be avoided, and I certainly agree that any changes, no matter how small, need to be considered with heavy care. But I don't agree that any changes whatsoever would detract from the experience.

To me there's got to be some kind of consensus that can be made between all of the groups of players on what the essence Vanilla experience was all about. I don't think that should be touched even slightly... but I'm not so sure about the ticky user interface and resolution issues and things like that.

Feel free to lump me in with "Classic+" group, but I just think that's an insanely broad definition that you are using for that group, and there's a lot of gradients before you get to something like the LFR tool....

[Morssoe]

Blizz thinks too deep. They just should release new realm with lvl 60 capped. That is like prestine realm for qol crowd. Vanilla will stay vanilla.

[superhumanj]

Classes will be rebalanced blue confirmed https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9242036?page=7

[Laqweeta]

I had a feeling Classic wouldn't be classic at all

And that's okay! We still have Light's Hope and Kronos.

[Novakhoro]

That's where your groups will have to agree to disagree. For some an altered version is what they want and honestly there isn't going to be a point in one group getting in heated arguments over it because we're talking about things that are a matter of opinion. The best you can do is campaign for why yours is the more appealing. The shouting matches aren't going to win people from one side to another I don't think.

(Un)fortunately there is a survey inquiring as to people's opinions on changes. I say that because people are dumb. They ask for what they want not what they need. That's why they're not game developers. But hopefully this will show that the majority of people want the real and pure vanilla experience and this survey isnt bombarded by tourists that want their endeavor into Classic to have all their hand-holding features which will ultimately just drive away the audience that they intended to reach with this project

[arkanon]

Classes will be rebalanced blue confirmed https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9242036?page=7

just for the people who will be stupid enough to just believe you, this is the quote "I personally think its fair to have a discussion about classes/specs in Classic, considering class balancing as a philosophy didn't exist back then as it does now. The idea of a "hybrid tax" was obviously not very good in the grand scheme of overarching class design and it made some specs arguably not viable/unplayable. I'm not suggesting we make huge changes or even small changes at all for that matter, but that it is a worthwhile conversation to have."

[arkanon]

I had a feeling Classic wouldn't be classic at all

And that's okay! We still have Light's Hope and Kronos.

SSHHH, dont say the names out loud!