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  1. #1
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Client-side new/old model toggle on classic is a bad idea.

    1: Please don't ignore the fact blood elf/night elf/draenei old models are gone in live wow.
    There is no such thing called toggle. Toggle = lie. A toggle harms everyone.
    In live you don't have toggle, in classic you won't have either.
    2. When you have toggle, blizzard will have to put 2x resources on maintaining both old and new model files. Blizzard is a capitalist, as long as they don't think it is profitable to do this, they will just end up with removing old models. That is what exactly happened on live. It would also be the case if blizzard decides to add new models into the classic wow.
    3. "It does not affect me." I think that is issue of live wow. It pushes people never care what other people think. Because it does not affect you, even old models get removed just like on live, it does not affect you either. That is also the problem of live wow, no one cares other people at all since nothing matters you.
    4. Client-side toggle has been proved in live a bad idea. Server-side is always a much better choice since they don't need put 2x resources on maintaining both old and new models NPCs.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    blizzard will have to put 2x resources on maintaining both old and new model files.
    What kind of "maintenance" do you think they will need to do in a game with static content and no new content patches? The models already exist, it should be a trivial amount of work to let the client side toggle between them.

  3. #3
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leperix View Post
    What kind of "maintenance" do you think they will need to do in a game with static content and no new content patches? The models already exist, it should be a trivial amount of work to let the client side toggle between them.
    I was to think that way. However, that is not the case since I started learning mods. https://wowdev.wiki/M2
    You can see blizzard constantly made changes during the past expansions.

    Also, when you want certain graphics update now, you might want further better graphics update in the future which will push blizzard put more resources on models. You can now see blizzard is removing BE/NE/Draenei old models on live wow.
    Last edited by cqwrteur; 2017-11-15 at 12:17 PM.

  4. #4
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    I see no harm in having a toggle option for newer models. Other people using new models doesn't affect you in any way.

  5. #5
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azszora View Post
    I see no harm in having a toggle option for newer models. Other people using new models doesn't affect you in any way.
    Although, it does not affect other players directly. It affects blizzard. Blizzard does not want to maintain 2 versions of models simultaneously. You can see BE/NE/Draenei old models are gone. I believe that will be the case (old models get removed) in classic either.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    I was to think that way. However, that is not the case since I started learning mods. https://wowdev.wiki/M2
    You can see blizzard constantly made changes during the past expansions.
    Yes, they do maintenance in the live game since it evolves all the time. But I asked what kind of maintenance do you think they need to do in classic where the content is static?

    Also, when you want certain graphics update now, you might want further better graphics update which will push blizzard put more resources on models. You can now see blizzard is removing BE/NE/Draenei old models on live wow.
    I don't think anyone is asking them to provide a custom updated version for WoW Classic. If they do the work of updating models for live version, there is not much extra work to use those in classic too. So I really don't see your concern here.

  7. #7
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azszora View Post
    I see no harm in having a toggle option for newer models. Other people using new models doesn't affect you in any way.
    I would prefer server-side toggle instead of client-side. People want their models seen by other players.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    Blizzard does not want to maintain 2 versions of models simultaneously.
    How would you know that? It seems quite clear they're not going to just use the latest live models for WoW Classic, so they will have two versions of the models regardless of whether they allow a client side toggle in classic.

  9. #9
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leperix View Post
    Yes, they do maintenance in the live game since it evolves all the time. But I asked what kind of maintenance do you think they need to do in classic where the content is static?
    Although the content is static, people are asking "graphics update" all the time. Graphics becomes dynamic (especially classic wow will be published after the launch of BFA I believe.) People will ask higher graphics.

    I don't think anyone is asking them to provide a custom updated version for WoW Classic. If they do the work of updating models for live version, there is not much extra work to use those in classic too. So I really don't see your concern here.
    Well, they simply don't update old models for live version now. It requires much extra work I believe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leperix View Post
    How would you know that? It seems quite clear they're not going to just use the latest live models for WoW Classic, so they will have two versions of the models regardless of whether they allow a client side toggle in classic.
    A client side toggle is just like tmorph. It is not good.

  10. #10
    I agree the toggle is a bad idea. We should just go with 2018 graphics.

  11. #11
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    I agree the toggle is a bad idea. We should just go with 2018 graphics.
    Who knows what 2018 graphics might look like?

    I want server-side toggle. I don't want client-side.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    2. When you have toggle, blizzard will have to put 2x resources on maintaining both old and new model files. Blizzard is a capitalist, as long as they don't think it is profitable to do this, they will just end up with removing old models. That is what exactly happened on live. It would also be the case if blizzard decides to add new models into the classic wow.


    Whats the difference between 2x resource (models) AND 2x resource (Classic vs Retail)

  13. #13
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    Whats the difference between 2x resource (models) AND 2x resource (Classic vs Retail)
    It is now 4x resources. I doubt blizzard is actually willing to maintain 2x models for classic wow.

  14. #14
    I agree, if they couldn't make new models look exactly as old ones and created this.... fugliness, then I think only old models should remain in legacy. I don't want my character to look hideous on somebody's screen, because I created it and plan to play with old models, while they prefer new ones.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    1: Please don't ignore the fact blood elf/night elf/draenei old models are gone in live wow.
    There is no such thing called toggle. Toggle = lie. A toggle harms everyone.
    In live you don't have toggle, in classic you won't have either.
    2. When you have toggle, blizzard will have to put 2x resources on maintaining both old and new model files. Blizzard is a capitalist, as long as they don't think it is profitable to do this, they will just end up with removing old models. That is what exactly happened on live. It would also be the case if blizzard decides to add new models into the classic wow.
    3. "It does not affect me." I think that is issue of live wow. It pushes people never care what other people think. Because it does not affect you, even old models get removed just like on live, it does not affect you either. That is also the problem of live wow, no one cares other people at all since nothing matters you.
    4. Client-side toggle has been proved in live a bad idea. Server-side is always a much better choice since they don't need put 2x resources on maintaining both old and new models NPCs.
    Blizzard removed the old models from Standard (minus toggable faces) because they wanted to add a ton of new skins and animations to character models, and duplicating all of that with old models would have been too much senseless work, since few people were using them.

    However, on Classic realms there will never be any reason to add new skins and animations to character models, so there's no need to fear that. They can simply use a toggle for new models and restrict them to the old animations.

  16. #16
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    Blizzard removed the old models from Standard (minus toggable faces) because they wanted to add a ton of new skins and animations to character models, and duplicating all of that with old models would have been too much senseless work, since few people were using them.
    That can be the reason for stopping people for using old models in classic too.

    However, on Classic realms there will never be any reason to add new skins and animations to character models, so there's no need to fear that. They can simply use a toggle for new models and restrict them to the old animations.
    There will be reasons since some people would constantly ask for "better graphics". For example, new animations and engine update or whatever.

  17. #17
    It's Vanilla. Vanilla had the old models. You should play with the old models.

  18. #18
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    It's Vanilla. Vanilla had the old models. You should play with the old models.
    agree. 10 char

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by cqwrteur View Post
    That can be the reason for stopping people for using old models in classic too.

    There will be reasons since some people would constantly ask for "better graphics". For example, new animations and engine update or whatever.
    Why would they ask for "better graphics", especially if they have a toggle for new models? It doesn't make any sense.

    Besides, if you think enough people would ask for this in order to make Blizzard to not only add a toggle, but also add new animations that would render the old models unusable, then you already lost, because you'd be in the minority wanting old models, wouldn't you?

  20. #20
    Banned cqwrteur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    Why would they ask for "better graphics", especially if they have a toggle for new models? It doesn't make any sense.
    You want new models because you think new models are superior graphics. You would like to ask for even more superior graphics in the future.

    Besides, if you think enough people would ask for this in order to make Blizzard to not only add a toggle, but also add new animations that would render the old models unusable, then you already lost, because you'd be in the minority wanting old models, wouldn't you?
    That would be the case. The toggle never really works. BE/NE/Draenei old models are gone in live wow.

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