Senator Al Franken accused of sexual assault

[mvaliz]

I see crude, but all the damage I see is self-inflicted. People need to chill the fuck out.

I wonder when people will begin to realize that these kinds of responses are manifestations of a sexually hyper-conservative culture. Women aren't liberating themselves from oppressive sexual ideologies, they're just fighting for equal power within a traditionally male-dominated framework. It's not the right way to do things, in my opinion, but maybe it's a necessary intermediary.

Since you're talking broad picture I have to ask this question... you do realize that Kevin Spacey, who is one of the prime focuses of what's going on right now with the sexual assault charges, is being accused of sexual assault by MEN... right?

[kaelleria]

I find it hilarious people are so willing to throw away innocent until proven guilty these days

There isn't going to be a trial in the Moore situation. Most people find 30 corroborating statements on the record enough to form an opinion on things.

There will be an investigation on the Franken issue.

That being said, sexual harrassers need to be punished regardless of party, social standing or power.

[cubby]

This whole post reeks of desperation.

Actually, the accusation of that woman is the desperate act. What you're reading is logical analysis of the situation. All accusations of sexual assault are not actually sexual assault. Rehearsing a scene for a USO show and a gag photo are NOT sexual assault, and you demean every sexual assault victim when you claim otherwise.

It may not have been entirely appropriate, but not entirely appropriate behavior is NOT sexual assault. You need to get that through your thick skull.

[Jimmy Woods]

The picture is in very poor taste.

There are some questionable things going on with this story.

1. Why did Roger Stone know about the story before it broke? https://twitter.com/StoneColdTruth/s...42351459504128

Roger Stone says Senator Al Franken's time in the barrel is about to come #sexscandal
10:12 PM - 15 Nov 2017

2. From this short news clip it appears her skits with Franken seemed very sexual, so maybe the line he crossed wasn't very clear.

3. Lastly she is a right-wing tea partier. Alone not a big deal, but combined with Roger Stone knowing about this ahead of time makes me question her story.

[Deletedaccount1]

Actually, the accusation of that woman is the desperate act. What you're reading is logical analysis of the situation. All accusations of sexual assault are not actually sexual assault. Rehearsing a scene for a USO show and a gag photo are NOT sexual assault, and you demean every sexual assault victim when you claim otherwise.

It may not have been entirely appropriate, but not entirely appropriate behavior is NOT sexual assault. You need to get that through your thick skull.

Grabbing someone by the back of the head while you shove your tongue in their mouth is sexual assault. My "thick skull" lmao. Look at how nasty you get when a member of your tribe comes under attack.

[Skroe]

Al Franken? Are you kidding me? This is not sexual assault. This incident demeans every other actual sexual assault victim and clouds the issue. If there is other information that hasn't been seen, let's look at it. But this incident screams of "I need another 15-minutes of fame".

It is. If he grabbed her against her will, as the photo clearly shows, it is categorically sexual assault. The only way it isn't is if we somehow create an exception whereby "done as a funny", even when that person is asleep, is okay. And in the context of this specific episode, where he did these skit practices where he tried to kill her and shit... yeah. He was horny for her, and when she was out, he groped her.

No mercy. No exceptions. There are other liberals who can do his job, ones without this taint.

The only way we can restore the highest ethical and moral standards to government is by not being forgiving when EVEN THE GOOD GUYS fuck up.

This is exactly why there's been a rash of "I was against Bill Clinton's impeachment in the 1990s, but in retrospect, he should have resigned because what he did was wrong." coming from liberal corners the past few weeks. Because many Americans are craving high standards in government - in character least of all - and this Al Franken episode is just more of everything wrong with us right now.

Do we think he's alone in the Senate? Hell no. There are certainly other sexual predators Senators. What happens when their names come up? Do we selectively say "you stay. You go. You stay. You go.".

No. I say: they all go. You sexually assault a woman - and let's be clear, groping sexual organs is sexual assault - you're done. No exceptions. A person who compromises themselves in that fashion will compromise themselves in further fashions.

[cubby]

A scene that he snuck into the act without even running it by her first. Did you even read the article or are you just going into full creep apologist mode because it's Al Franken?

You mean the scene that he wrote and she agreed to do? That one? I love that we are automatically believing only one side, with just one accuser, with zero corroborating evidence.

You people that can't think for yourselves make me sick.

If there is more to the story, or more information comes out, or more accusers - then that would change the situation. Right now we seem to have only one side of one story.

Are you ok with just believing one side, of one accusation, and destroying someone based on that alone? Is that what you've become?

- - - Updated - - -

It is. If he grabbed her against her will, as the photo clearly shows, it is categorically sexual assault. The only way it isn't is if we somehow create an exception whereby "done as a funny", even when that person is asleep, is okay. And in the context of this specific episode, where he did these skit practices where he tried to kill her and shit... yeah. He was horny for her, and when she was out, he groped her.

The picture clearly show he did NOT grab her - please look at it again.

No mercy. No exceptions. There are other liberals who can do his job, ones without this taint.

Agreed, but this isn't sexual assault. Not even close.

[TZucchini]

The photo is inappropriate, but I'm not really sure a lewd gesture is illegal.

The photo seems highly inappropriate to me. I mean, she's sleeping. Some people are saying that he's not actually touching her, but from what I see, it looks like there's contact.

I fail to see the humor in touching a female while she's sleeping over the breast area.

[Valizix]

I think the accusations against Moore are extremely credible.

I also, preliminarily, find the accusations against Franken credible. I'm not convinced Franken's isolated (so far) incident rises to the level of requiring him to step down.

All that said, it's troubling anyone would say that the allegations don't constitute sexual assault. It's a lesser gradation of that evil, but it's undeniably assault.

Regardless if people find the allegations credible or not (even tho I'm not sure how anyone would going by what they've seen on t.v. as their only source) people should still be presumed innocent until evidence and facts provided say otherwise. As for Franken, stepping down or not you can blame the Dems and Liberals, they opened this can of worms...this is their baby.

[cubby]

Grabbing someone by the back of the head while you shove your tongue in their mouth is sexual assault. My "thick skull" lmao. Look at how nasty you get when a member of your tribe comes under attack.

He's not under attack - he's being accused of something he didn't do. No corroborating evidence. No other accusations. And they were rehearsing a scene she agreed to do.

That's not sexual assault. And you demean yourself and all sexual assault victims by claiming otherwise. Shame on you.

If more evidence comes out, fine. If more accusations come out, fine.

Or are you ok destroying a person because of one unverifiable accusation, doing something they agreed to do?

[mvaliz]

Both need to happen, even if the resignation happens at the end of the investigation. He needs to go.

Government must be a place of the highest ethical and moral standards. Franken falls for short by this single action, even though it happened prior to his election. It was in 2006. He was middle aged them. He is not a different person. It's not like smoking weed when you're 18.

I don't know on what planet these jokers think their behavior is appropriate. But then again, one look into the other sexual harassment threads and we see weird dudes contort themselves justifying doing weird and deeply unacceptable things simply because they want to do it.

People just dont have enough respect for their fellow (wo)man this day in age.

Be careful... if what Franken did was a fireable offense, I'm MORE than suspecting that 90% of the current white-house staff is guilty of something or another in far more extremes.

And, yes, that's including Mike Pence. You don't act THAT squeaky-clean wholesome and not be hiding something, hence why you feel the need to act like you're squeaky clean! ;P

[Skroe]

The picture clearly show he did NOT grab her - please look at it again.

Agreed, but this isn't sexual assault. Not even close.

I just did. The tips of his fingers are clearly on her chest. The palms? No. Not the palms. But suddenly this gets into OJ Simpson / Bill Clinton levels of "What is the definition of is". In context with respect to her statements about the skits and kissing and his insistence, on the same trip, is it absolutely sexual assault from what we know.

[cubby]

I just did. The tips of his fingers are clearly on her chest. The palms? No. Not the palms. But suddenly this gets into OJ Simpson / Bill Clinton levels of "What is the definition of is". In context with respect to her statements about the skits and kissing and his insistence, on the same trip, is it absolutely sexual assault from what we know.

No, they aren't. No part of him is touching her. That is a classic gag photo, taken at a USO show.

And it doesn't enter the realms you are claiming. This is at worst a misunderstanding and gag photo. This is NOT sexual assault, and claiming otherwise demeans real victims of sexual assault.

[Skroe]

Be careful... if what Franken did was a fireable offense, I'm MORE than suspecting that 90% of the current white-house staff is guilty of something or another in far more extremes.

And, yes, that's including Mike Pence. You don't act THAT squeaky-clean wholesome and not be hiding something, hence why you feel the need to act like you're squeaky clean! ;P

You're right. I expect that. I wouldn't be surprised if one out of four senators at the very least groped someone at some point in their lives.

If we're going to clean house in government, everybody, not just the Trump loser brigade, is on trial for their behavior. Consistent with this, my demand that Franken resign would extend to 25 senators. No exceptions, least of all "oh it was just a joke". Nope. Don't care.

[downnola]

You mean the scene that he wrote and she agreed to do? That one? I love that we are automatically believing only one side, with just one accuser, with zero corroborating evidence.

You people that can't think for yourselves make me sick.

If there is more to the story, or more information comes out, or more accusers - then that would change the situation. Right now we seem to have only one side of one story.

Are you ok with just believing one side, of one accusation, and destroying someone based on that alone? Is that what you've become?

In cases like this, I take the side of the victim, especially when they provide a photograph that makes the accusation more believable. I seriously doubt you'd be this concerned about "just believing one side" if it was Trump in this photograph. Get fucking real, cubby.

[Dextroden]

Alright. I only skimmed but I'll probably go back.

What's the verdict? Sexual assault accusations are to be taken seriously or shut up about it?

[Tinykong]

The photo seems highly inappropriate to me. I mean, she's sleeping. Some people are saying that he's not actually touching her, but from what I see, it looks like there's contact.

I fail to see the humor in touching a female while she's sleeping over the breast area.

I don't think it's funny either, because it's essentially making a joke of actual sexual assault.

It doesn't look like he's touching her to me.

[Skroe]

No, they aren't. No part of him is touching her. That is a classic gag photo, taken at a USO show.

And it doesn't enter the realms you are claiming. This is at worst a misunderstanding and gag photo. This is NOT sexual assault, and claiming otherwise demeans real victims of sexual assault.

Clearly look at his left hand. His left ring finger is even resting on her chest. The right hand too.

Technicalities to have outs for "people we like" undermines any kind of high-standards agenda.

He has to go. Even for this. It means anyone doing anything worse has to go too. No. He didn't rape her. That also is irrelevant. The bar for sexual assault must be very low, and he broke it.

[Deletedaccount1]

He's not under attack - he's being accused of something he didn't do. No corroborating evidence. No other accusations. And they were rehearsing a scene she agreed to do.

That's not sexual assault. And you demean yourself and all sexual assault victims by claiming otherwise. Shame on you.

If more evidence comes out, fine. If more accusations come out, fine.

Or are you ok destroying a person because of one unverifiable accusation, doing something they agreed to do?

There's a photo to corroborate her story. You seem to think it doesn't show him grabbing her breasts but I and several other people including the OP disagree.

She agreed to do a scene? So what? She expected a faux kiss where she would brush him off for comedic purposes. Did you even read the article? She resisted when he tried to kiss her and he did it anyway, aggressively. Your logic here is completely off. Just because she agreed to do a scene with a "kiss' doesn't make it okay for him to force himself on her.

More evidence should come out but his response is already pretty damning. If the accusation turns out to be false somehow then the woman should be charged with libel but I see no reason to believe she is lying.

[Fitheach]

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leean...or-al-franken/

Quote from the woman:



Statement from Al Franken:




Obviously the behavior is unacceptable. He should resign.

Absolutely not, its not bad when Liberals do it, its just a misunderstanding.