Is USA really the only country against Human Climate Change?

[Allybeboba]

If you can't point to a post that proves your statement, that's on you, not us. And believe me, no one will be surprised if you can't provide one - or even better, continue the "you find it if you want to prove me right" litany you usually spew just before you tell us to have a good afternoon.

Remember, I'm a guy who's admitted you were right on something (I badly misread your initial statement on an issue awhile back and embarrassed the hell out of myself, and then admitted and apologized) - so I'm ready to see you prove yourself right and admit it.

- - - Updated - - -



Because those who can do the right thing, should.

Not my responsibility if you want to see them my friend. Nor is it mine if you don't believe me or remember them. Personal attacks are just your modus operandi. Or you could just prove that I haven't done what I have claimed.

[hakujinbakasama]

No, the USA is not "against Human Climate Chinage."

Some in the USA question to what effect Humans are responsible let alone to what effect per individual. Oddly enough, shipping tankers contribute more carbon emissions than all the personal vehicles in the United States. We understand that since the industrial revolution there has been negative effects on the climate. Hell, we knew that during the Ozone craze of the decades past. What we really don't know is the proper way to tackle the perceived problem.

I'll present this math problem every time this topic comes up.

If solar panels are so great, how many solar panels does it take to make a solar panel?

[cubby]

Not my responsibility if you want to see them my friend. Nor is it mine if you don't believe me or remember them. Personal attacks are just your modus operandi. Or you could just prove that I haven't done what I have claimed.

Lol, you just crack us all up. You make a claim, we ask for even a modicum of proof, and you slide into Lil TJ Phase 4, deflect & play the victim, while stating it's not your onus to prove your claims - so adorable.

So let's see you prove your claim - where have you said that you believe humans are responsible for climate change? Just link the post - we're all ears.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll present this math problem every time this topic comes up.

If solar panels are so great, how many solar panels does it take to make a solar panel?

How is that a math problem? Could you elaborate? I haven't seen you post that before.

[schwarzkopf]

I can't really wrap my head around it if true.

I suspect it isn't AGAINST it, just the current clueless morons at the top don't believe in it.

Don't blame the whole country just because of a few loons at the top.

[hakujinbakasama]

Lol, you just crack us all up. You make a claim, we ask for even a modicum of proof, and you slide into Lil TJ Phase 4, deflect & play the victim, while stating it's not your onus to prove your claims - so adorable.

So let's see you prove your claim - where have you said that you believe humans are responsible for climate change? Just link the post - we're all ears.

- - - Updated - - -



How is that a math problem? Could you elaborate? I haven't seen you post that before.

Have you never seen complex math or physics word problems?

[cubby]

Have you never seen complex math or physics word problems?

I wasn't being sarcastic, I promise - I'm sincerely asking you what you mean.

And to answer your question directly, and rather honestly (so be nice! ), I'm not sure. I think I have, but I'm not sure what constitutes what you're asking.

[Allybeboba]

Lol, you just crack us all up. You make a claim, we ask for even a modicum of proof, and you slide into Lil TJ Phase 4, deflect & play the victim, while stating it's not your onus to prove your claims - so adorable.

So let's see you prove your claim - where have you said that you believe humans are responsible for climate change? Just link the post - we're all ears.
.

This is the part where I tell you it doesn't matter what I link to you because no matter what I link will not convince you otherwise of my your feelings towards me. You have some inset deep resentment towards me for some reason. You will then state "you have nothing then."

So lets turn this around. How about YOU provide a direct link of yourself indicating where you believe climate change in human made?
Or will you just try and weasel out of it and state it isn't your claim to prove. Surely, if you believe in the subject matter so strongly you would have made such a statement, right? Or are you here just to troll?

[hakujinbakasama]

I wasn't being sarcastic, I promise - I'm sincerely asking you what you mean.

And to answer your question directly, and rather honestly (so be nice! ), I'm not sure. I think I have, but I'm not sure what constitutes what you're asking.

So, Solar panels have an efficiency rating. Thus, dependent on size, say a 6'x6' panel, you can calculate the energy a single panel can produce. Then you need to factor the total energy cost to produce a panel.

The long and short of it is... it's extremely fucking hard to solve the problem and takes a metric ton of data. The end point is that it would take an obscene number of solar panels on top of an obscene number of other services to become self sufficient. This is because at the end of the day, other energy and sources are required to manufacture let alone transport the panel.

What can generally be pointed to is the following... https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy99osti/24619.pdf

However, the measurement being reported is only for the actual conversion manufacturing of the panel. That has zero to do with the equipment nor allocation transpiration requirements. Additionally, you are talking years for the individual panel to recoup the direct energy requirement for creation (not including allocation.)

So it comes down to the question no one considers asking. How much energy and natural resources are required from the start of composition to the final creation of a panel? Turns out, it's a monster of a question but the best answer is, it will never supply it's own creation.

[Peebuddy]

America's meeting the Paris accord numbers anyways, what exactly are you guys complaining about now?

[Moonstream]

I would say that the majority of Americans accept that the "weather is changing". Climate Change or Global Warming though? FAKE NEWS!!1

It's just like how everyone hates Obamacare but is for the Affordable Health Care Act. Yes, we can be that stupid.

I work with an ultra conservative and he's constantly denying global warming because "It's -20 out but they're trying to preach to me about global warming. Just liberals trying to spend more money!" It really is amazing some of the crap he spews, I really should start recording it because even I cant believe half the crap he says and would like to go back and hear it again. The worst part is, he actually BELIEVES it, mostly because he seen it on FOX news.

[Youn]

Generally speaking the United States doesn't like to be regulated by any other foreign entity. So, by not holding to someone elses set limits, we feel we can regulate ourselves better then would be done by the Treaty/Accord.

[cubby]

This is the part where I tell you it doesn't matter what I link to you because no matter what I link will not convince you otherwise of my your feelings towards me. You have some inset deep resentment towards me for some reason. You will then state "you have nothing then."

If you link proof of your actions, I will believe you. But I won't take your word, because you have a history of ignoring evidence and willful ignorance. But if you claim you've done something, especially something as easy as "yes I've said that in this forum", then it should be fairly easy to prove, right?

So lets turn this around. How about YOU provide a direct link of yourself indicating where you believe climate change in human made?
Or will you just try and weasel out of it and state it isn't your claim to prove. Surely, if you believe in the subject matter so strongly you would have made such a statement, right? Or are you here just to troll?

No problemo - here you go. In this thread, page 6.

Your turn. We'll wait.

[Deleted]

Go moan about china while your at it aswell, just because the u.s isnt in paris climate accord doesnt mean they not working on their own thing.

Mind your own countrys buisness.

lol what a dick.

You're an isolationist with regard to global warming then eh?

[Tiwack]

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." - Winston Churchill

[Deleted]

Of course they are against climate change. Manmade or otherwise. They believe it is a Chinese conspiracy. Even the American President believes it and tweeted it.
Tell me of another Country, were a Politician brought a Snowball to a meeting and claimed it was evidence that climate change is a lie.

Even backwards shitholes like N Korea,Sudan and Religious Theocracies like the Vatican accept it is real.

[Waniou]

The Earth will burn to a cinder when the sun goes into its red giant stage. Yet I'm somehow not seeking solutions to the future sun problem.

This argument seems a tad like saying "well I'm going to die in 60 years time, so I'm not going to get treatment for this broken arm."

[meowfurion]

If you don't understand why the USA would be opposed to the Paris Climate Accord, you haven't bothered to do any kind of research on anything that opposes your bubble-life ideology.

[shimerra]

If you don't understand why the USA would be opposed to the Paris Climate Accord, you haven't bothered to do any kind of research on anything that opposes your bubble-life ideology.

It's more probable than not that you're the exact person you're laughably trying to criticize.

[cubby]

So, Solar panels have an efficiency rating. Thus, dependent on size, say a 6'x6' panel, you can calculate the energy a single panel can produce. Then you need to factor the total energy cost to produce a panel.

The long and short of it is... it's extremely fucking hard to solve the problem and takes a metric ton of data. The end point is that it would take an obscene number of solar panels on top of an obscene number of other services to become self sufficient. This is because at the end of the day, other energy and sources are required to manufacture let alone transport the panel.

What can generally be pointed to is the following... https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy99osti/24619.pdf

However, the measurement being reported is only for the actual conversion manufacturing of the panel. That has zero to do with the equipment nor allocation transpiration requirements. Additionally, you are talking years for the individual panel to recoup the direct energy requirement for creation (not including allocation.)

So it comes down to the question no one considers asking. How much energy and natural resources are required from the start of composition to the final creation of a panel? Turns out, it's a monster of a question but the best answer is, it will never supply it's own creation.

Ok, I truly love stuff like this, especially when it comes to green energies, even though I don't have the math to dissect the details.

The issue is self sufficiency of solar panels - what's the tipping point where they can "pay" for the totality of the energy it takes to make more of them. From mining the minerals to installing them, including transportation and labor costs. If I'm understanding the issue correctly.

I think the biggest answer is the one that you say is the best - that it will never supply it's own creation. With all due respect, how could that not be anything but wrong? At some point down the road, much of the energy supply will be solar - either energy from panels (or whatever we're calling them at that future point) or beamed down from orbiting collection satellites.

At some point we'll have mining facilities that are solar powered, a transportation system that is solar powered, and a manufacturing system that is solar powered. If those come info effect for a solar panel manufacturing plant, where the plant also makes replacement panels for the aforementioned systems, haven't we reached the point of supplying it's own creation?

I get that the biggest follow up point is that while it might start being self sufficient, it hasn't made up the energy it took from other sources, to get to that point.

But in my opinion, that is an invalid valuation system. Because you will never really ever fully recoup the energy it took to completely create the solar manufacturing process. All of history led to that point, so how to even start to measure the energy it took in the 1700's to develop the technology that led to the development of the technology that got us solar panels?

At the end of the day creating a self supply system is the key goal. If it can produce energy for every part of the manufacturing process (mining, transpo, production, installation, etc) along with producing other panels for other systems and plant, then it's a total win.

What think you?

[Wallmaker Yahzarah]

I can't really wrap my head around it if true.

And what is climate change, to you, and why do you feel as though we should all comply?