How did it come to this?

[Queen of Hamsters]

What 'shit gear' people do people have to play for?

I never said Classic was perfect. I just like the linear progression, most of Classic is garbage, although enough is decent to rival Retail.

...

Well, let's look at World quests. In order for my alts to benefit from any gear rewards, I have to go into the world and complete said quests.
Let's look at Relinquished gear, in order for my alts to benefit from it, I need to spend time playing the character on Argus in order to gather the currency needed to purchase a piece. My lower geared alts, still benefit now and then from Broken Isle wq's. And that's before including materials and PVP items that can be rewarded too.

What rewards exactly can I get from not even logging in to the game...?

And someone likes what Classic offers better than Live? Fair enough. What I take issue with is when people proclaim that things present in Classic are somehow magically and through design, not present in Live despite the heaps of proof to the contrary... Living world? Check. Community and people playing together and making friends? Check. Meaningful character progression paths and more focus to not make the game raid-or-die? Check. Etc etc.

[Daffan]

...

Well, let's look at World quests. In order for my alts to benefit from any gear rewards, I have to go into the world and complete said quests.
Let's look at Relinquished gear, in order for my alts to benefit from it, I need to spend time playing the character on Argus in order to gather the currency needed to purchase a piece. My lower geared alts, still benefit now and then from Broken Isle wq's. And that's before including materials and PVP items that can be rewarded too.

What rewards exactly can I get from not even logging in to the game...?

And someone likes what Classic offers better than Live? Fair enough. What I take issue with is when people proclaim that things present in Classic are somehow magically and through design, not present in Live despite the heaps of proof to the contrary... Living world? Check. Community and people playing together and making friends? Check. Meaningful character progression paths and more focus to not make the game raid-or-die? Check. Etc etc.

I edited my post as you were replying, more context.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I edited my post as you were replying, more context.

And my answer remains the same.

People progress and play for what is on offer. If all one does is worry about "but it'll be undone soon anyway", then MMORPGs seem like the wrong game genre. Always striving to have the best, also means you'll always be best prepared when new stuff comes out. And that's just in terms of gear progression, then there are things like collections and achievements and such that people pursue just fine.

Sure, on perpetually locked Classic servers you can get the best gear and it'll always remain the best gear... but you also never get new content and power rewards to progress through and towards. I see no wrong in prefering things that way, but that doesn't render everything NOT Classic "worthless"... As proven by the fact that WoW is currently celebrating its 13th anniversary and moving forward still.

[Daffan]

And my answer remains the same.

People progress and play for what is on offer. If all one does is worry about "but it'll be undone soon anyway", then MMORPGs seem like the wrong game genre. Always striving to have the best, also means you'll always be best prepared when new stuff comes out. And that's just in terms of gear progression, then there are things like collections and achievements and such that people pursue just fine.

Sure, on perpetually locked Classic servers you can get the best gear and it'll always remain the best gear... but you also never get new content and power rewards to progress through and towards. I see no wrong in prefering things that way, but that doesn't render everything NOT Classic "worthless"... As proven by the fact that WoW is currently celebrating its 13th anniversary and moving forward still.

The only problem I have is all the people, including myself who went casual in Legion (And earlier expacs) get a weird/boring/unrewarding experience because the content is either trivialized or straight up made obsolete before you actually beat it (LFR don't count)

I don't care about having the best gear forever, or even getting the best gear in a single raid tier. I just like doing content that does not feel like a waste of time.

WoW is quite lucky that every other MMO is even worse. The competition is like, two or three games and the rest are Asian grindfests that you are better served by putting forks in your eyes.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The only problem I have is all the people, including myself who went casual in Legion get a boring experience because the content is either trivialized or straight up made obsolete before you actually beat it (LFR don't count)

I don't care about having the best gear forever, or even getting the best gear period. I just like doing content that does not feel like a waste of time. Either because it's trivial garbage, obsolete or the reward will be made obsolete in 2 weeks.

I can't relate to content being "trivial garbage", even at the rate I clear it at... And people clearing it at more respectable rates, go in with even less catch-up gear behind them.

Of course, clearing a raid when it's been out so long that another tier is coming out 2 weeks after one's cleared it, would put a dampener on it... But clearing raids at that level means there's not much effort put into actually achieving the sense of doing content whilst current in the first place.

My "mentors" have had Mythic ToS cleared and on farm for a looong time now, and they still wipe now and then.

[Halyon]

Care to share the specifics? What experiences had in Classic, can't be had in Live?

Abuse 'class fantasy' to kill farm others in pvp?

[Deleted]

Observing it from afar:

Nostalrius vs. Blizzard. This fiasco got a lot of publicity and it made many Blizzard fanboys, the worst of the worst, engage in it and take Blizzard side, even though they had no dog in the fight. They didnt care one way or the other, but pretended they were interested in the topic just to white knight Blizzard.

The "fanboys" won, or so they thought. Blizzard announces Classic and now they feel like they lost. Even though, again, they rightfully have no dog in this. They dont care about Classic, or Nostalrius or the people wanting to play Classic, its just a giant troll opportunity.



This never happened with say, any game remake or rerelease. CoD fans did not care that Modern Warfare was being remastered, there was no drama involved. No drama involved with GTA remastered, Wind Waker, basically any game out there. Those who didnt want to play these remasters, just..didnt play them and stuck with the originals. They never made a single noise that they wouldnt play them.

Starcraft, the closest thing to WoW, considering the similar, overlapping communities, no issues.



Conclusion: There is a noticeable element in MMO community, where people deeply care what others do. We have known this in WoW since Classic (ironically enough). People care what spec you are, what raids you have done, what your gearscore is, what loot you have etc. They just.cant.let.go. They cant let others just play a game they like.

[Deficineiron]

For years, dedicated individuals have campaigned to have Classic considered by Blizzard

Whether through petitions, creating or playing private servers, they have shown that there is a substantial, dedicated playerbase that want vanilla WoW, as it was

Now that it would appear that they have succeeded, after the announcement of Classic at Blizzcon, the entire conversation has shifted away from whether or not Classic should be a thing into what changes should Blizzard make?

These are not posts from dedicated vanilla supporters, they are ideas from tourists who would play the game for 5 minutes before deciding that they would rather play BfA

If you want class balance, easier levelling, cheaper mounts and respecs, then there is already a game for you. If you want a game with better graphics, a more modern client and a million other changes, then there is already a game for you.

The reason Classic was great is because the focus of the content was on whatever you wanted to do. You could RP, PVP, just quest, do casual dungeons, be a hardcore raider, just be a social member or any mixture of those things. Blizzard made the game they wanted to, and people enjoyed it. Any attempt to change classic with modern wow design philosophy is doomed to fail

The biggest problem is that a group of tourist players, who this is not being made for, seek to make classic into something it isn't, when they already have Legion

Stop ruining things for people who have put more effort into this than you have, and who this project is designed for

the premise of the post is flawed. blizzard is doing this for money. they want as much as possible. blizzard used to have some other ideas on how to tune stuff but a/b has some strongly held views on accessibility - more is better, essentially.

they will tune this to attract the most people for as long as possible, and where there is doubt on how to approach it, given their track record you have to assume they will default to 'more accessible' rather than 'less accessible.'

I am expected something actually tuned like classic content areas were vs. leveling player power in the 3.0 period, that is to say, very, very easy.

I had written about the 'frankenstein' offficial server scenario last year - essentially if blizzard were to make classic servers, they would use classic map, theme, storyline etc., but doll it up with modern conveniences and nerf it into the ground - essentially the worst of both world. Unless something has changed at the corporate level on blizzard, a/b, and accessibility in their content, this is what I expect.

[anon5123]

Yes you can. Private servers are literally proof of this

Private servers don't change the game. They strive to be as close to blizz servers as possible.

[Barnabas]

I am a vanilla player and I have sure learned alot about "what I want" in this thread. At this point i'm kind of baffled that its so hard for some to understand that everyone wants a different classic experience.

True and Ion asked in the Q and A today which game people wanted by year. The only correct answer is all of it. Going to 2006 when accessibility was opened up would make some players happy while others that care about the pvp grind wouldn't like it so much. Being stuck in one phase of the game isn't doing vanilla wow any justice and just limits the experiences people could otherwise have if they enjoyed things at a different time in the game.

[Mormolyce]

These are not posts from dedicated vanilla supporters, they are ideas from tourists who would play the game for 5 minutes before deciding that they would rather play BfA

I think your argument works better without this kind of No True Scotsman fallacy. That kind of thing really isn't helping the tone of the debate.

[Daffan]

I can't relate to content being "trivial garbage", even at the rate I clear it at... And people clearing it at more respectable rates, go in with even less catch-up gear behind them.

Of course, clearing a raid when it's been out so long that another tier is coming out 2 weeks after one's cleared it, would put a dampener on it... But clearing raids at that level means there's not much effort put into actually achieving the sense of doing content whilst current in the first place.

My "mentors" have had Mythic ToS cleared and on farm for a looong time now, and they still wipe now and then.

Current raids aren't that big of a deal, if you do Mythic it's much better. Mythic raiding IS the best experience (even comparing all the way back to 2004), everything else, especially if you are casual sucks.

[Molvonos]

Current raids aren't that big of a deal, if you do Mythic it's much better. Mythic raiding IS the best experience (even comparing all the way back to 2004), everything else, especially if you are casual sucks.

Bolded is what I disagree with.

I'm currently casual. i wasn't always and I couldn't do hardcore/mythic raiding due to my career, real life, etc. I still enjoy the game a lot, but then again i'm one of those folks who don't pine for the good old days, because I actually enjoyed the QoL changes and all that jazz. I can go about my day, do my WQs, bullshit in LFRs, PvP and enjoy what i'm doing without it feeling like a chore, because it's a game.

The grind hasn't changed direction, it's simply changed what it looks like. Instead of materials/reputations(collectors would disagree)/resist gear, you're grinding AP... but you're getting that AP doing stuff you'd normally be doing anyways.

And coming from someone who raided hardcore in Classic, every boss was in 'hardmode' due to gear constraints, resists and trying to keep at least 20 monkeys from standing in void zones or fire. Ragnaros was difficult because of constant fire damage, which your healers couldn't keep up with unless -everyone- had fire resist, and when they finally ran oom, people started dying, rapidly. (also, Ragnaros and Nefarion's need to destroy weapons was shitty a mechanic as any IMO).

**Edit: Also, your signature? Doing Molten Core and Onyxia for a great long while, until BWL came out, was still a content drought. The goalposts just shifted a little bit further, but you still had to farm MC/Ony even if you had BWL down, with Rags dropping T2 and Ony providing scales for the cloak, if you get -any- new players or toons in the raid.

[Eleccybubb]

I think you're exaggerating a little on that part

Nope.

And by 60 guilds I meant 60 twink ones.

I was watching a few twink ones and a lot of them were in whites/greens at the time.

The stat change and other player based changes over the years really has taken it's toll. Go into a 60 raid with blues or Tier 1/2 these days and you absolutely stomp on it.

[Deleted]

people has lost their way..community is shit...i am an old veteran player and i have to say this.. vanilla was shit. ok was a good game back in 2004 but compare to today's standards was horrible.game wasnt hard..just time consuming and we were worst players.. ppl asking for stupid things divide the community and blizzard resources. want a classic experience? ask for it in retail version.. ask for old aspects of game return to BfA.. bring back old talent trees , bring back old pvp , bring back day and night circle help immersion remove lfd , lfr ... the game now is a lot better. endless content class balance qol aspects like bank and bag slots etc..there are ways to make wow better and re-release the first version of the game is not one of them..

[Usagi Senshi]

For me a large chunk of the social aspect died when they removed the Looking for group chat channel as a game / world wide thing. Yes it got spammed with off topic subjects such as trade and trolling but you could also just have a chat in there at any random time of the day of the night while you were going about your business and get to know the names and personalities of the people who participated in it. I never really understood why they got rid of it... and reimplemented it in a way that caused nobody to bother using it. Really hope the LFG channel will be back as it was originally (game wide chat).

Now this is something I agree with and loved when I was leveling my alts at 1am and suddenly someone was asking for a rogue/dps for LBRS/UBRS. Random movie/game talks and murloc/Chuck Norris jokes were fun as well. My rogue was practically parked there with blinding powders ready.

Had a random talk with another person playing the same Nintendo DS game I was one night as well (Super Princess Preach).

That is the best part of vanilla they got rid of when going into the later patches due to the fucking constant gold spammers. God I loved that channel.

[Deleted]

I need to send a DM to someone so I post ... things, I guess. Shieeeeetttt

- - - Updated - - -

I need to send a DM to someone so I post ... things, I guess. its boring.

[Wiedzemir]

people has lost their way..community is shit...i am an old veteran player and i have to say this.. vanilla was shit. ok was a good game back in 2004 but compare to today's standards was horrible.game wasnt hard..just time consuming and we were worst players.. ppl asking for stupid things divide the community and blizzard resources. want a classic experience? ask for it in retail version.. ask for old aspects of game return to BfA.. bring back old talent trees , bring back old pvp , bring back day and night circle help immersion remove lfd , lfr ...

Divide what community? I hope you realize that the target playerbase isn't playing the current WoW en masse, right? Also the thing which divides the community is statements like yours where you try to tell people what they should and shoudn't want, do or like.

Second. If Blizzard is to revert all of the "QoL" nonsense that ruined the game in my opinioin, you're going to bet the first one to cry and whine about it because ..

the game now is a lot better. endless content class balance qol aspects like bank and bag slots etc..there are ways to make wow better and re-release the first version of the game is not one of them..

"Just shovel the content into my mouth, I don't have time!". Believe it or not but there are plenty of people who don't give a damn about that content.

[Deleted]

Wiedzemir dont get me wrong..i dont try to tell ppl what to like...i know i dont play vanilla now for specific reason. besides class balance crap gamebraking bugs and all that, i am 10 years older now and i cant commit to something like that again.my point is vanilla was good at its time..but world moved on.people have moved on. game industry moved on.my statement is that we can have the best from the to worlds.and what you expect from vanilla servers..no content with sub fees? couse i am sure it wont be free to play. next thing will be people demanding new content..or shut down server and create a new one in an endless circle? just like seasons in diablo...this is something i like to see :P as in my opinion popularity of vanilla pirate servers rests in the following : FREE TO PLAY WOW ... i dont think anyone would like to sub in a 10 year old game with no new content and no updates..

[Lolsteak]

Duh.

You can't 5-man current raids either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDoeSy6uA0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd1lXxXdUMY

While not current Tier they are still current Expac, You can't deny it's a bit silly.