Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[Kissintel]

Gambling with real money for power in a video game is completely unacceptable if kids are involved. Sorry, if that makes you upset.

Instead, you should probably take a moment and have a conversation with a few children about how they see the world and their place in it. I have been in a few conversations myself with kids about their future, and boy what a horrific experience.

Perhaps this kind of garbage should tank companies... who also don't pay taxes, and don't contribute to their communities in any meaningful way.

[Dhrizzle]

It wouldnt stand on any ground unlike this. Give me one example of a pokemon game that makes you use money to gamble. I mean the only gambling thing in the games were like random moves like fissue and horn drill lmao.

The Pokemon empire also includes a collectible card game which got more negative press than MtG due to it clearly being aimed at children.

[Archpriest]

I have to ask:

Is it not in our favor to label these practises as gambling, regardless of your personal definition of "gambling"? Both to protect people (and in this case Im mostly concerned with children) and to discourage the introduction of obnoxious progression systems like in Battlefront 2?

[GennGreymane]

I have to ask:

Is it not in our favor to label these practises as gambling, regardless of your personal definition of "gambling"? Both to protect people (and in this case Im mostly concerned with children) and to discourage the introduction of obnoxious progression systems like in Battlefront 2?

Basically all it would be is putting a new warning on the box, blood, violence, language, gambling. However companies dont want an age rating increase. Thats the issue at its core.

[Wyattbw09]

So it begins. Its kinda sooner than expected tho. If other countrys follow suit we can hope to get rid of this plague in a year or 2.

Talk about failure to see the forest because of the trees. Not sure how loot boxes work in other games. Maybe Starwars makes it a pay to win system. However, loot boxes are what makes games viable in the long term. There is a reason Blizzcon had large parts of it dedicated to Hearthstone and Overwatch and nothing dedicated to Starcraft and Diablo.

In Overwatch you can pay to get a chance at cosmetic items. In Hearthstone you buy packs of random cards. Overwatch and Hearthstone are fun games in part because Blizzard is incentivized to keep improving the product to make loot boxes something that people are willing to pay for. Blizzard basically could care less about Diablo. Seems like they have a soft spot for Starcraft and do a minimum of updating.

I'll gladly let people with more money then me spend it on incentivizing Blizzard to keep updating my favorite games with new content.

[Dhrizzle]

lootboxes = gambling

not sure why peoples still debate this and refuse the truth.

Because in law the term "gambling" has a specific meaning which so far hasn't been shown to apply to loot-boxes. It seems you're working more with an emotional truth than one that is reflected in law, because you've heard that gambling is "bad" and think that loot-boxes are "bad" you've decided loot-boxes must be gambling.

The thing is there are legit concerns about the way loot-boxes work, the psychological effects of opening the box and the way they are marketed (especially towards children) but trying to force them into a box labeled "gambling" is counter-productive when other consumer protection laws exist.

[GennGreymane]

Because in law the term "gambling" has a specific meaning which so far hasn't been shown to apply to loot-boxes. It seems you're working more with an emotional truth than one that is reflected in law, because you've heard that gambling is "bad" and think that loot-boxes are "bad" you've decided loot-boxes must be gambling.

The thing is there are legit concerns about the way loot-boxes work, the psychological effects of opening the box and the way they are marketed (especially towards children) but trying to force them into a box labeled "gambling" is counter-productive when other consumer protection laws exist.

Except the only real "authorities" with "law" that have looked at them are the ESRB. and the PEGI systems, which I know the ESRB is not governmental, and is self regulation of the industry. Thats not a legislative body, agency, etc.

BTW those psychological effects are not accidental. These companies are hiring Psychologists.

[Jtbrig7390]

I'll gladly let people with more money then me spend it on incentivizing Blizzard to keep updating my favorite games with new content.

If Lootbox's is how games get long term support. How did it work before lootbox's?

How did Halo 2 last as long as it did without lootbox's?

[Dhrizzle]

Lockboxes, setting aside the cancer of adding them to a buy to play game, are designed to be as habit forming as any other addiction. theres a reason a frame of every Overwatch lockboxes opening animation makes it look like you have a legendary. Its to condition a dopamine release in the consumer so it feels good/generates a positive association feedback loop and getting a legendary is a "big feel win" which instills a feeling to get more to keep that happy feeling going is how they get whales with no self restraint on the teat.

THAT is what makes it like gambling. People rabid to defend their own money spent already -and lets be honest in this case mouth breathing star wars die hards- to the point they are actually being the volunteer public defenders for Electronic Arts as the poor done to little guy because they are trying to push this sinister as fuck designed by commit to form a habit model of lockboxes in buy to play retail releases.

This sums it up well. Sure you get a chance at something everytime. But if a slot machine gave you a free penny does it stop being something designed to get you hooked for multiple revisists? not really.

It's nice to see the occasional remix of "video-games are bad, their makers are evil and won't somebody please think of the children!"

[makketota]

how is it gambling when if you buy something you always get something out of it, there is no avenue for losing,

How gambling is defined isnt really the issue here, also it differs from country to country. The way these systems work is arguably psychologically identical to what makes gambling addicting. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operan...ioning_chamber

[wholol]

If they had to investigate gambling in overwatch their focus should be on the rng matchmaking soloQ competitive experience , it trumps loot boxes in terms of gambling by miles.

OT though, pretty much any online game has gambling in some form or way (albeit a softer version of gambling ), look at rng war/titanforged procs in wow or the legendary system, look at LoL's crates system, CS GO's weapon skin system ... and so on, every online game has a version of gambling whether it be soft or actual gambling in some way.

[Jtbrig7390]

It's nice to see the occasional remix of "video-games are bad, their makers are evil and won't somebody please think of the children!"

The difference here is lootbox's do give the same rush as gambling at a Casino.

[Dhrizzle]

Except the only real "authorities" with "law" that have looked at them are the ESRB. and the PEGI systems, which I know the ESRB is not governmental, and is self regulation of the industry. Thats not a legislative body, agency, etc.

BTW those psychological effects are not accidental. These companies are hiring Psychologists.[/QUOTE]

Last time I checked the UK government was an "authority" with "law" that is both governmental and legislative.

[GennGreymane]

Whats worse is these companies are now turning gamers and players of these games into fucking advertisements. COD making us watch people open loot boxes, and the whole patent issue with using match making to advertise.

[Aoyi]

I don't see how this is gambling any more than buying a pack of cards. If I go out and by a pack of Magic cards, I'm only guaranteed to get cards that come from a specific set. There's no promise of what card is going to be in my pack. This is no different.

[GennGreymane]

IS pegi like the ESRB where its self regulation?

[dope_danny]

It's nice to see the occasional remix of "video-games are bad, their makers are evil and won't somebody please think of the children!"

No they make them because the lockboxes are a gift to benefit the consumer, truly the publisher is the wise audiences greatest ally. Not a manipulative attempt at additional raw profit. corporate greed can't be real.

I mean look at all these games like Nier Automata, Mario Odyssey, Horizon Zero dawn or pretty much 90% of none western AAA that dont push this stuff. What fools missing out!

Truly i am the bad one here calling call videogames bad and their makers evil. Yep thats exactly it.

How could i be so cruel against EA, the peoples friend?

[Yunru]

Except the only real "authorities" with "law" that have looked at them are the ESRB. and the PEGI systems, which I know the ESRB is not governmental, and is self regulation of the industry. Thats not a legislative body, agency, etc.

BTW those psychological effects are not accidental. These companies are hiring Psychologists.

And suprise, it can be bribed to look the other way araund.
https://www.techspot.com/community/t...mbling.241500/
(the link is total b-****)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcircl...6h&sh=2e4332db

I am 100% sure they were bribed to look back.

[Coldkil]

If Lootbox's is how games get long term support. How did it work before lootbox's?

How did Halo 2 last as long as it did without lootbox's?

Gonna bite the bullet here. Games were better and with different objectives in mind (long term fun experience compared to long term revenue - not sayin they're mutually exclusive but too much focus on the second sacrificing the first brought us stuff like BF2)

[GennGreymane]

I don't see how this is gambling any more than buying a pack of cards. If I go out and by a pack of Magic cards, I'm only guaranteed to get cards that come from a specific set. There's no promise of what card is going to be in my pack. This is no different.

Wrong, if you buy the pack of cards, I can give you a dollar for the card. I am a third party who can attribute value to that transaction. If you get a skin in OW, I cannot give you a dollar for that skin because I am not a third party who can attribute a value to that transaction.

Its very different.

- - - Updated - - -

No they make them because the lockboxes are a gift to benefit the consumer, truly the publisher is the wise audiences greatest ally. Not a manipulative attempt at additional raw profit. corporate greed can't be real.

I mean look at all these games like Nier Automata, Mario Odyssey, Horizon Zero dawn or pretty much 90% of none western AAA that dont push this stuff. What fools missing out!

Truly i am the bad one here calling call videogames bad and their makers evil. Yep thats exactly it.

How could i be so cruel against EA, the peoples friend?

Listen, you have been on this bender of how not evil the non west is, but I dont think you know whats western.