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  1. #181
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    You were told that this is exactly what would happen. Most people would not be able to handle vanilla with all its quirks.
    The second Blizzard gave in and said they would do classic they also invited all thoes players that never actually played vanilla and are used to a totally different game. These players pay just as much as you or even more maybe? Some of the pro-classic players haven't actually subbed for quite a while after all.

    Blizzard will listen to these people as much as they listen to you. The end result might very well end up as something no one will like.
    Enter the Frankenstein server hypothesis.

    I really hope I am wrong about that, but unless something has changed in the equation of blizzard, activision-blizzard, maximizing revenue, and a/b infamous 'accessibility' ideology, that is likely to be what we get. Any single-difficulty aspects which have some challenge may represent blizzard's best effort holdout against total nerfing of leveling (outdoor and instance) content.

    the fact they clearly circulated a memo to use the phrase 'the classic gaming experience' or some derivative thereof, emphasizing the word 'experience,' is a major red flag. They can claim to have provided the experience while gutting the game.
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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    In other words, report everyone seen out in the world, everyone you play with and all the friends made for botting activities...?
    I'mma get right on that!
    Don't be daft. The point is that there's no functional difference between the people in your LFD group and NPCs that zerg through the faceroll easy content with you. You don't need to talk to them. You don't need to make friends with them so they'll come back. You can be an asshole to them and it won't have any impact at all on your next run. Even if you're so obnoxious that you cause people to leave group, they eat the deserter debuff, and the system finds you a new "person" to play with.

    It's soulless as all fuck.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    You can still have a classic wow experience with changes in the game, i know this concept is very hard for people to grasp.
    No you really can’t. You can have a Vanilla with hot fudge and sprinkles but that doesn’t taste like plain Vanilla. Many people here want a banana split
    "Peace is a lie"

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    Enter the Frankenstein server hypothesis.

    I really hope I am wrong about that, but unless something has changed in the equation of blizzard, activision-blizzard, maximizing revenue, and a/b infamous 'accessibility' ideology, that is likely to be what we get. Any single-difficulty aspects which have some challenge may represent blizzard's best effort holdout against total nerfing of leveling (outdoor and instance) content.

    the fact they clearly circulated a memo to use the phrase 'the classic gaming experience' or some derivative thereof, emphasizing the word 'experience,' is a major red flag. They can claim to have provided the experience while gutting the game.
    Pretty much, yes.

  5. #185
    Thats easy to answer. There used to be a big evil enemy. There was no official classic. Everyone banded together to fight it.
    Then we won. Now we do what every good revolution does after it has "won". Splinter and fight for power. Luckily in this case we are just mean to people on the internet and make reading feedback for blizzard a bit harder, because they have to wade through all of these "LISTEN TO ME, the real vanilla fan. Not those other people, the WRONG vanilla fans!" posts in order to find something helpful.

    Otherwise the OP would probably be setting up the giullotines
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  6. #186
    4:3 aspect ratio for wow classic servers?

  7. #187
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    Bolded is what I disagree with.

    I'm currently casual. i wasn't always and I couldn't do hardcore/mythic raiding due to my career, real life, etc. I still enjoy the game a lot, but then again i'm one of those folks who don't pine for the good old days, because I actually enjoyed the QoL changes and all that jazz. I can go about my day, do my WQs, bullshit in LFRs, PvP and enjoy what i'm doing without it feeling like a chore, because it's a game.

    The grind hasn't changed direction, it's simply changed what it looks like. Instead of materials/reputations(collectors would disagree)/resist gear, you're grinding AP... but you're getting that AP doing stuff you'd normally be doing anyways.

    And coming from someone who raided hardcore in Classic, every boss was in 'hardmode' due to gear constraints, resists and trying to keep at least 20 monkeys from standing in void zones or fire. Ragnaros was difficult because of constant fire damage, which your healers couldn't keep up with unless -everyone- had fire resist, and when they finally ran oom, people started dying, rapidly. (also, Ragnaros and Nefarion's need to destroy weapons was shitty a mechanic as any IMO).

    **Edit: Also, your signature? Doing Molten Core and Onyxia for a great long while, until BWL came out, was still a content drought. The goalposts just shifted a little bit further, but you still had to farm MC/Ony even if you had BWL down, with Rags dropping T2 and Ony providing scales for the cloak, if you get -any- new players or toons in the raid.
    But AP/AK don't matter if your a Casual, it just comes automatically and especially later in the expac it was made a joke. Everything you did in Older WoW felt like it was actually progressing something. You never felt like you were getting gear that was pointless because better stuff would be given to you for free in the next patch.

    I don't mind the QoL in Legion, the only problem I have with Legion is it just feels so pointless and meaningless when it plays itself or most of the content is a waste of time. Again if you raid Mythic there is no problem, but everyone else is on rails.

    If you think between MC and BWL was a content drought, man in Modern WoW the whole planet must have had zero water supply during Cata/Mop/WoD (And soon probably Antorus > Expac gap). Unlike Modern WoW, even when the next raid came out the previous one actually stayed relevant, you weren't skipped over them and "too bad". Although in the short-term it sucks (Waahhh I don't see the new raid instantly), in the long-term it feels better, because you aren't forced into 12 months of the same raid when you never even did the previous 1-2-3-4. Which is definitely something that happened with DS/SoO/HFC.

    I'l just clarify another thing. I think a lot of things suck in Vanilla big time, Vanilla purists make my head spin. Just I like some of the underlying design philosophy, which in reality is what I think a lot of people liked - not all this other small bullcrap which is just nostalgia.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2017-11-17 at 04:30 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  8. #188
    Dreadlord Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    But AP/AK don't matter if your a Casual, it just comes automatically and especially later in the expac it was made a joke. Everything you did in Older WoW felt like it was actually progressing something. You never felt like you were getting gear that was pointless because better stuff would be given to you for free in the next patch.

    I don't mind the QoL in Legion, the only problem I have with Legion is it just feels so pointless and meaningless when it plays itself or most of the content is a waste of time. Again if you raid Mythic there is no problem, but everyone else is on rails.

    If you think between MC and BWL was a content drought, man in Modern WoW the whole planet must have had zero water supply during Cata/Mop/WoD (And soon probably Antorus > Expac gap). Unlike Modern WoW, even when the next raid came out the previous one actually stayed relevant, you weren't skipped over them and "too bad". Although in the short-term it sucks (Waahhh I don't see the new raid instantly), in the long-term it feels better, because you aren't forced into 12 months of the same raid when you never even did the previous 1-2-3-4. Which is definitely something that happened with DS/SoO/HFC.

    I'l just clarify another thing. I think a lot of things suck in Vanilla big time, Vanilla purists make my head spin. Just I like some of the underlying design philosophy, which in reality is what I think a lot of people liked - not all this other small bullcrap which is just nostalgia.
    But if you played for social reasons, to raid with 10/25/40 people, as a community, why did it matter if there were catchup mechanics? If nothing else, it helped guildies who got caught by RL to catch up the rest of the guild. Then again, I didn't play to get the best loot, I played for my guild and to experience end-game. So whether or not I got the loot immediately or later, didn't matter to me.

    Meaningless, to me, is farming and grinding for resist gear that you'd never use again after you get over the gear hump where it was necessary.

    And 'relevant' is an opinion. Doing MC for a year, to gear up 35+ players, just to do BWL, and then -still- have to go back to MC, seems like its forcing it. It makes it even more grindy (which it was) just to experience the new content. Which... yea, you are kinda being forced to do 12 months of content, while attempting to progress. AQ40 was a horrifically long raid, period.

    One of the reasons they implemented those sort of QoL changes were to help new players get their feet wet and catch up. Because what happens when most of the raiders are in AQ or Naxx? You cant just 'delve' into Raiding. You'd have to do dungeons, MC, BWL just to catch up. And PvP? Where the higher ranks have clearly better gear? These mechanics were set in place and refined to allow a much wider range of players, versus people who would give up and move on. Progress rather than stagnation.

    Once several guilds get to Naxx and clear it, regularly, then what? Move onto TBC? Recreate Vanilla servers? Where does the 'Classic' experience stop? People keep citing 'community', but the community never left, it simply shifted more into guilds and less into servers, where shit like Faction imbalance kills World boss progress (which was needed).
    Personal Preference and Opinions ≠ Facts, Truth, or Logic

  9. #189
    Honestly, I would be fine if we just had the old client dumped on us. However, I highly doubt that Blizzard would literally dig up that ancient thing and give it to us as is. Blizzard is obsessed with making something as perfect as they are reasonably able to, so I highly doubt we'll get exactly what we had a decade ago. IMO, they might leave class balance alone, and they will probably leave encounter design alone, but I expect that the Lua API will be updated, as well as the UI, including Bnet integration.

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  10. #190
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    I think it's important to understand that Blizzard isn't stupid. Some changes are inevitable, simply because they won't be able to push patches the way they did back then, but ultimately it'll be a very Vanilla experience. That's the whole point of Classic in any case.
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  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Yung Frosty View Post
    The social and world content on retail is a fraction of what it was in Vanilla, the focus now is to get as many people onto raiding as possible, through LFR and group finder

    Not saying that it's bad that they've changed it in that way, it's just different
    that was the focus prior to Legion. The focus now is to get as many people as possible doing Mythic + and have raiding be something only a few people do outside LFR.

  12. #192
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    why did it matter if there were catchup mechanics? If nothing else, it helped guildies who got caught by RL to catch up the rest of the guild. Then again, I didn't play to get the best loot, I played for my guild and to experience end-game. So whether or not I got the loot immediately or later, didn't matter to me.

    One of the reasons they implemented those sort of QoL changes were to help new players get their feet wet and catch up. Because what happens when most of the raiders are in AQ or Naxx? You cant just 'delve' into Raiding. You'd have to do dungeons, MC, BWL just to catch up.
    It's not about the loot entirely, it's about having content to do that is interesting, It's like playing a singleplayer game that constantly skips ahead without you really finishing anything (If they just gave you 950Ilvl, nothing matters) nobody cares if they get the loot now or later, as long as its before it becomes obsolete artificially. Ion Hazzikostas again;

    When Blizzard "gives away" (relatively speaking) a tier X+3 item to someone in tier X gear, they're basically invalidating a portion of their tier X+1 and X+2 content. Items aren't just "loot" -- remember, they are the only method of progressing your character. To use leveling as an analogy, large skips in item progression are like giving level 62 players a quest that lets them skip to level 67 upon its completion. Players might appreciate such a quest, but its existence would by definition obsolete most of the level 63-66 content.

    In terms of the reason they implemented this QoL, it was simple. Back in the day there was no flex or assist. There was more then enough people available for Molten Core even when Naxxramas released, the problem was getting them together. Catchup mechanics was the easy answer, because then you don't have to worry about getting them together at all.

    To clarify, in Vanilla/TBC If you were on a dead server, or one with no guilds, or they weren't recruiting for your timezone. You were screwed. Managing 40/25 people was screwy at best as well, so most people even though they wanted too, could never even finish Molten Core let alone start it so got left behind and therefore it snowballed where it was hard to recruit for Tier 2.5/3. So Blizzard just said screw it in Modern WoW and let you skip everything instead of solve this problem until years and years later.

    *It's like the people who complain about content droughts are the same people who love Blizzard welfare because it lets them skip every piece of content. So idiotic design.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2017-11-17 at 08:15 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Well then, which Vanilla is vanilla? 1.0? 1.5? 1.10? How far up did it go back then, 1.13?

    There were substantial changes made to 'vanilla' during it's runtime, some of which drastically changed how the game was played.
    All of them were vanilla. Which is why Blizz can provide an accurate vanilla experience by rolling them out in a similar fashion. It worked fine then.. will work fine now.

  14. #194
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Nope.

    And by 60 guilds I meant 60 twink ones.

    I was watching a few twink ones and a lot of them were in whites/greens at the time.

    The stat change and other player based changes over the years really has taken it's toll. Go into a 60 raid with blues or Tier 1/2 these days and you absolutely stomp on it.
    Oh...I think I read it wrong then...thought you were talking about something else.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    You can still have a classic wow experience with changes in the game, i know this concept is very hard for people to grasp.
    Absolutely. This is what people don't seem to understand. I played religiously in vanilla - I believe over 65 days /played at level 60 alone on one toon. There were so many problems in vanilla I could write a novel. If those problems had ever been addressed, it would have been an even better game. It was so bad Blizzard quickly realized all the mistakes they made and focused all efforts on the new expansion. Basically, they scrapped their initial game in favor of a new system which worked much better. Apparently people want to play a broken game.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Talvindius View Post
    Vanilla purists are so mad that Blizzard wants to make a game that EVERYONE can enjoy.

    "YOU DON'T GET TO ENJOY VANILLA, IT'S MINE REEEEEE!'

    Blizzard is going to do what makes the game enjoyable for the most people, not just the shitposters on forums who threaten to not play because "if you change 1 thing it's different and different is bad."

    Good lord just get over yourselves. Pretend for once the world doesn't revolve around you and your needs and that there may be other people who want to play Classic.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is the truth. Classic isn't a private server and people should stop acting like it's going to be one.
    You don't want to play classic if it isn't actually classic, you stupid fuck.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by arboachg View Post
    You don't want to play classic if it isn't actually classic, you stupid fuck.
    Remember the prenerf C'thun video DnT released? I sure do. Remember all the other broken things in the game? Obviously the whole 100 vocal purists don't.

  18. #198
    dunno, im ready for all the rose tinted glasses wearers to get their fill of it and be done. there is a reason the game has changed. in a lot of respects its better. some are worse, but i hope you also get all the bullshit that came with vanilla if you want the "real vanilla experience". like 3 hour q times to log in. ages to fix things etc. how soon you forget a lot of the stupid shit that actually was regular back then. only then, maybe you vanilla lovers will shut up about it. if you wanna stay, hey fine. i just dont expect to see you back here in less than a year griping that there is no new content etc. blizzards resources IMO are better served making the game better with new content and fresh experience than wasting it on stupid shit like classic servers.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    You can still have a classic wow experience with changes in the game, i know this concept is very hard for people to grasp.
    That's like buying an Old Timer Car, but then go out of your way installing electric windows, parking sensors, slik sport tires, remote lock.
    Yes it is still a car, and yes you can still drive it, but it's not really an Old Time rnow is it.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    You can still have a classic wow experience with changes in the game, i know this concept is very hard for people to grasp.
    Absolutely. Spend an hour on the Ironforge bridge shouting 'LF tank UBRS', warlock quit earlier so get on the bird to Thorium Point, ride heroically to BRM, someone in the group can't find the dungeon entrance, tank has to leave, go back to IF to find a replacement, finally get group together, no-one's completed the Seal of Ascension quest, log off. Good times!

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