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  1. #281
    Field Marshal Sarnus's Avatar
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    As long as we have a definitive answer I'm happy, maybe it'll stop some of the suggestion and "I WANT THIS CHANGE MADE TO VANILLA" threads.
    Quote Originally Posted by The One Percent View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  2. #282
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    I mean you're wrong, but to each their own I guess. I personally played vanilla for it's entirety and if you had the balls to play one of the many useless specs people wouldn't touch you with a 10 ft pole and trying to get a group for anything outside levelling dungeons was a nightmare. Some of them were even so bad people would laugh you out of chat if you had the audacity to apply for a group as one.

    And even if there was only 1 raiding spec for each class that is still objectively bad game design, being forced into a playstyle you don't enjoy just to even get into raiding content is awful. There's a reason it's never and WILL never happen again.
    But you get to choose what class you are playing. Paladin really was the only offender because prot and retribution were laughed at. In all the time of me playing vanilla I didn't know anyone who made a priest to play shadow or a hunter who wanted to play survival. Yes those specs were undertuned but nobody minded that because nobody wanted to play them in the first place. I think that people should not go into classic wow with the mindset of wanting to play the spec they are currently enjoying in legion. It's a completely different game.

    I had no problems finding groups as a feral druid even before 1.12. The same goes for warlock or hunters who were the worst pure DPS classes across all patches, I didn't struggle to find any groups with them and we always had plenty of those in our MC/BWL raids. The only thing playing the "wrong" spec prevents you from doing is naxx40 and MAYBE AQ40 if the raid lead is a tryhard who wants to clear the raid within 4 weeks.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    I mean you're wrong, but to each their own I guess. I personally played vanilla for it's entirety and if you had the balls to play one of the many useless specs people wouldn't touch you with a 10 ft pole and trying to get a group for anything outside levelling dungeons was a nightmare. Some of them were even so bad people would laugh you out of chat if you had the audacity to apply for a group as one.

    And even if there was only 1 raiding spec for each class that is still objectively bad game design, being forced into a playstyle you don't enjoy just to even get into raiding content is awful. There's a reason it's never and WILL never happen again.
    You realize you get to pick your class for classic right? Unless you've been living under a rock since 2004, you won't be "forced" into any playstyle.

    Personally, I thought the BC specs were the pinnacle of WOW's class design, but I need to call bullshit on the idea that the support roles were "useless" just because they didn't throw top DPS/heals. They brought buffs that made them a net benefit to the raid.

    I know this might come as a surprise to people here, but there are people that play this game that aren't really concerned about top parses, or maybe just don't have the talent to put up top parses. The support roles were good places for them, because the raid lost much less DPS than putting them on pure DPS classes. Nevertheless, having good supports was a substantial DPS increase to the raid, especially if they were the sort of player that never died or fucked up mechanics.

  4. #284
    Epic! HordeFanboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    And you honestly think that's good game design? Think that a vanilla where you can't play what you want and the vast majority of people would have to reroll away from the classes or specs they've come to love over the last decade just to play is going to gain more interest than retail WoW? It's an abomination of game design that was only good at the time because we hadn't experienced better. I'll give you a pro tip if this is really what you have envisioned for a perfect WoW: Never get a job in game design.
    You can play all classes and all specs in vanilla. No one forces you to play top classes.
    Legion is the worst expansion
    BFA=Blizzard Failed Again
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  5. #285
    I hope this means we can get a relatively quick release date! like maybe early spring of next year

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Argarock View Post
    Just actually watched the video.. Holy shit that's a death sentence for the classic servers

    I started playing mid-tbc and the wotlk pre-patch was the best thing to have ever happened to this game. really made you realise what a un-balanced mess the game was back then..

    and they're gonna release vanilla in the state it was in back then? without balancing it?! It will lose 90%+ of its players in 3 months and then slowly die.
    Niceeeeeeeeeeee, so u started playing game at TBC and u know it was best thing for the game , so u also know that vanilla was bad even tho u haven't played it? You are silly man . Game isn't balanced even now, balance is thing of perspective , people will always be crying about something .

    lOL, sure , it will lose 90% of players in 3 months and vanilla had milions of ppl back then . And even today pirate servers are crawling with players.

    So, do u understand that people wants vanilla , and want it all that vanilla was.
    I want lvl60 arms warr that can be killed by lvl40 mage , i want warr that can be 2 shotted by ele shammy, but i also want arms warr that turns into a monster with healers behind me .
    Vanilla was a true mmo , classes were dependant on other classes, it wasn't so dull like it's now, now every class feels the same . Even now we have meta specs , specs that makes other specs obsolete , because all are playing those . And u already said u started playing during TBC, so what are u even talking about wow vanilla servers ?

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    What are these inconveniences anyway? Bugs, glitches, server unstability? or the lack of certain features?
    Not specified. Could be pure vanilla, could be like TBC, which had tons of 'inconveniences' but still had very good fixes from vanilla.

  8. #288
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bugsix View Post
    HAHA, main wow is doomed now....
    Do you really believe this? if so I'm worried for you. People aren't going to throw away 13 years of progress for Classic.

  9. #289
    Indeed. He stated that the only real question was whether they wanted to start with the initial launch build or perhaps the last patch.

    It is exactly as I suspected. They HAVE archives of every single patch/version in the history of WoW. This is great news for reproducing the experience accurately.

    I personally do not have a problem with them starting with the final patch and backing out the instances/raids/etc and re-enabling them on a timeline (much like prIvate severs do)...

    Nor would it bother me if they recreate the order of patches exactly as it was. It was good enough then.. it is good enough now.

    Man this i exciting news!

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by bugsix View Post
    HAHA, main wow is doomed now....
    LOL, Vanilla wow player that thinks it will rule the world when the player base will shrink monthly after launch. As for those who think there will be no changes..... They are wrong too as they said there will be some changes, for example it will be battle.net integrated and you will be able to talk to someone cross faction that way, there will be updated graphics and textures because those are designed to run on new graphics cards. There will also be some fixes to huge exploits that people found out about during vanilla and in BC that would be game breaking, for example raid lockouts and how they are assigned. In Vanilla you could run a raid as many times as you wanted a week as long as you were not present for the first boss dying. I know this as I was one of the early members of Deus Vox, when we started it was a merger of a couple guilds to form a new guild. We were behind in gear since the majority of the guild had never killed Rag and were just starting in BWL. But after 2 weeks of progression through BWL we had it where we could kill it all very quickly and would kill cheese Razergore by allowing mobs to kill him to 5 % release him, and 4-5 alts would kill him. A tank 2 heals and 2 DPS. The rest of the raid would zone out and not get saved. One of the alts would stick in the raid to hold the lock out and the other 39 players would get back in and clear. Rinse and repeat. As for people saying you could not have that many alts......This is where tap leveling comes in, once you get a character to level 30(dungeon carries through stockades and Deadmines) you take him to the outside of BRD with a group of lvl 60's that you are not partied with and start tagging the elite mobs that are outside the instance. The 60's kill them and you get full XP, you can go from 30-60 in an evening of grinding, for the last 5 levels you can speed it up by heading to the blue dragon cave in winterspring.
    Last edited by Chaelexi; 2017-11-17 at 03:30 PM.

  11. #291
    Deleted
    Awesome stuff.

    The only thing I think I would accept is a graphical update if they can't recreate the game in the old vanilla engine, everything else should remain the same.

  12. #292
    Just going to share my own personal experience with Vanilla.

    I was enhancement from 1-60. Loved it, I was this DPS buffer dude who would sometimes heal to help my party. I did 5man dungeons all the time with my pals. I then went into hardcore PVP as enhancement. Did really well getting blood guard during the BG grind. After a while when people started getting better gear I was getting hammered. I switched to PVE, the night I applied to a raiding guild and got accepted this happened:

    Going to check your gear and make sure you have the right talents. Having no previous idea what raiding was in WoW I was a bit thrown back. Sure enough a new guildy came along and told me what talents to use. All in resto, I asked if this was a new player thing nah its a shaman requirement for raiding.

    I checked with multiple people in other guilds same thing. Shaman were healers and buff bots. It sucked to go from what I thought a shaman was to what a shaman should be in the raiding scene.

    I stuck it out as I had IRL friends in this raiding guild and I made a lot of new friends. It didn't dampen the fact that it was shit to have one viable spec for raiding.

    I only tank now in retail so I will have to play a warrior for classic. Which is fine by me (I love playing my DK, but will re-adjust for classic).

    Just wanted to throw this out there about what I experienced while playing one of these hybrid classes.

  13. #293
    I have no issue with it being 'pure vanilla', some version of vanilla 1.x. However, I do think if this is in fact going to be a big project / revenue generator, sadly, I have to agree with some people and say that blasting it clear back to 2004 would not be the best idea. If its going to be just something for current players to tinker around in then great, unmodded vanilla is fine.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Allaria View Post
    Do you really believe this? if so I'm worried for you. People aren't going to throw away 13 years of progress for Classic.
    I will. My characters will be reborn and be relevant again. They won't be gods with legendary artifact weapons, leaders of their class, commanders of the army, saviors of azeroth...

    No... they will just be willing adventurers setting out to help a farmer with a wolf problem, will hear of dark threat looming in Darkshire, will gather resources to craft Spidersilk Boots, and perhaps, someday, fend off great foes.

    Until then... I will need to be careful not to pull two wolves.

    "You people" seriously underestimate how exciting and amazing it is to play on an absolutely fresh server, fresh economy, fresh progression. Where 8 slot bags sell in the AH, and there are a plethora of craftable items needed from Wizard Oils to Weighstones, scrolls to enchantments, food buffs to buying portals. I enjoyed this on a private server and it was glorious. People were SOOOO excited and having such fun. Barrens chat was back! Tarren Mill/Southshore PvP was EPIC! Something like 10,000 people were online at ONCE, on ONE server (compared to something like the old 1500 limit?) Now imagine the excitement of a Blizzard supported fresh start... knowing your efforts will be saved for future and not go belly up.

    Yes, all my toons are ready to retire... and be reborn anew.
    Last edited by Maudib; 2017-11-17 at 03:25 PM.

  15. #295
    The Patient Rurin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Man, the replies in this thread just tell me that the Classic servers will be as full of toxic people as people claim current servers to be.

    "Community" indeed.
    Is anyone really expecting otherwise?

    In my experience the classic version of RuneScape is far more toxic than the retail one. Let's hope that doesn't happen to classic wow, I'd really love to try it out. But I feel that after a few months only the hardcore players remain and unfortunately that category tends to be the most toxic
    For the [enter opposing faction here]

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiedzemir View Post
    And you base it on what? Provide a link to the confirmation that it's even being considered. Dude, you want a pristine server, we got it. You don't like classic, it's fine. However, why do you keep pushing your baseless nonsense everywhere though?
    You don't know what Classic will be either. You are just implying your view of Classic server is how it should be, and calling mine "pristine". What do I base it? They asked in an interview that should they go with updated graphics or old graphics, then some days later a survey that Blizzard monitors showed that an overwhelming majority of players either want updated graphics, or a toggle option.

    So you Purists need to suck it because it will likely be in game.

  17. #297
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bugsix View Post
    HAHA, classic wow is doomed now....
    Fixed that for you.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Leperix View Post
    But I am not wrong. No spec was useless. Just because you cannot get into a dungeon with some spec doesn't mean it's useless, some people can still enjoy doing something else with, like RP. The whole point is that the design was specialized and not homogenized like it is today. It's not objectively better or worse, it's just different.



    But that is simply not objectively bad game design. You simply don't like that design, I do. Your subjective opinions are not objective facts.
    So you're saying that for people who spent literally hundreds of hours playing and leveling a Druid as Feral or a Shaman as Enhancement to level cap because that's the style of play they wanted, get to end game and are now practically forced to heal (which they don't want to do) to even see the end game content...that's good design?

    At launch no one really knew, for sure, what the end game raid comps would end up being or how viable each spec was for the different roles until much later when everyone had already dumped weeks of their life into the character. Someone who started and played a character for a specific reason only to find out that they can't play the class the way they wanted to even though it was designed to be played that way it just sucks at it compared to other classes, that's really shitty.

    In today's WoW where it's super easy to get to level cap, I can somewhat understand, but back then I find it absolutely horrible to suggest that it's OK to force someone into a play style they don't like if they want to see end game or be forced to spend another 60+ hours of in game time leveling an alternate class they may not really want to play in order to play the game the way they want to, because the class they actually want to play is being deliberately left behind design wise for....reasons.

    I understand people's desire to keep Vanilla pure, but IMO that's a very emotional response and reason. I've yet to see a logical argument for why balancing the classes to allow for more specs and classes to be viable would be bad for the game. Different=bad is not a solid argument, but it's all I've seen so far regarding class balance.

  19. #299
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rurin View Post
    Is anyone really expecting otherwise?

    In my experience the classic version of RuneScape is far more toxic than the retail one. Let's hope that doesn't happen to classic wow, I'd really love to try it out. But I feel that after a few months only the hardcore players remain and unfortunately that category tends to be the most toxic
    Vanilla wow was pritty god damn toxic from about 05-06 tbc was the hight of toxic wotlk was also pritty God damn toxic especially with gear score. Luckily cata seemed to pug alot of the elitist toxic ass holes when they gave them the hard game then been bitching for only to have to make it easy again cos it was too hard haha. After that they went to circle jerk on private server's or troll people on forums

    From my experience the pro vanilla crowd consists for 3 rough types. Assholes, scrubs and wannabes.

    The Assholes are the old elite of wow who sat about on there pic mounts and there tier gear and enjoyed lording it over and insulting every one else. At some point they either fell from grace or noticed there no longer that unique and now there bitter and long to go back to a time when they thought they were something. You can often find them bragging about there achievements in vanilla and talking about how hard it was and how elite you had to be no matter how much proof is given that it was easy just time consuming.

    The scrub is the one who did next to nothing in vanilla Probly spent 90% of there time in trade chat spamming chuck norris jokes and has some odd fantasy about vanilla being all levels holding hands and skipping around and viability didn't matter when in reality that only applied below level 60 and as they didn't reach or spend much time at 60 befor tbc we're actually sheltered from the toxicity because they didn't matter.

    And wannabies. Those who have heard over and over about vanilla from the above 2 groups and how rose tintedly ausome it was. And are Probly jealous they can't be one of the old longbeareds too and desperately want to say they played vanilla.

    And then there's a guy named Jefferson who just wants fishing back to a %success chance
    Last edited by mmoc56f3565a46; 2017-11-17 at 04:15 PM.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I understand people's desire to keep Vanilla pure, but IMO that's a very emotional response and reason. I've yet to see a logical argument for why balancing the classes to allow for more specs and classes to be viable would be bad for the game. Different=bad is not a solid argument, but it's all I've seen so far regarding class balance.
    People just need to stop trying to shut down conversation... All of this "No Change" nonsense is just that, nonsense.

    I played vanilla. I enjoyed vanilla. Vanilla had problems. Problems that can be solved. Isn't it amazing how all 4 of those statements can be true?

    Vanilla had problems that can be solved without ruining what made the game what it was. Making specs function the way they were literally suppose to the entire time isn't suddenly going to turn Vanilla into Legion. Get off your slippery slopes and be reasonable.

    If having a warrior tanking is what made Vanilla enjoyable for you, you're never going to be happy. Sorry.

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