Why do YOU think Horde is the evil faction -- or not?

[Enkrypt]

I see many posts on the site saying the Horde is evil. The Horde is bad. They're the cause of all of our problems. Why exactly? The Alliance are the ones who started WoD if you look at it from perspective. If Thrall killed Garrosh, WoD, Legion, and BFA would've NEVER happened. Garrosh bombing Theramore was justified after the Horde sending Jaina several messages to GTFO it's dangerous and you don't belong here. The Horde also asked for more resources for the Night Elves. They refused and just let the Orcs starve in the desert which caused Garrosh to invade Ashenvale.
My guild is planning to faction swap to Horde and noticed one of our members said: "Hoorah, Yeah! Swapping to the evil faction.".
The Horde is not evil in my eyes. They are just misunderstood. The Horde does whatever it takes to ensure the success and well-being of their people. They do not wait for miracles to happen. They simply take action unlike the Alliance.

Do you think the Horde is evil or not?

Stopped reading at the bolded part...

Anyone who claims that has probably never played World of Warcraft. The Horde isn't evil, plain and simple.

[Hastis]

for first thing i want say that there is nothing like "good" or "evil" FOR HORDE the Aliance is "evil" and they are the good ones for Alliance the horde is "evil" and they are good ... thats all in a whole world there is nothing like evil or good is that so hard to understand ?

[baskev]

I see many posts on the site saying the Horde is evil. The Horde is bad. They're the cause of all of our problems. Why exactly? The Alliance are the ones who started WoD if you look at it from perspective. If Thrall killed Garrosh, WoD, Legion, and BFA would've NEVER happened. Garrosh bombing Theramore was justified after the Horde sending Jaina several messages to GTFO it's dangerous and you don't belong here. The Horde also asked for more resources for the Night Elves. They refused and just let the Orcs starve in the desert which caused Garrosh to invade Ashenvale.
My guild is planning to faction swap to Horde and noticed one of our members said: "Hoorah, Yeah! Swapping to the evil faction.".
The Horde is not evil in my eyes. They are just misunderstood. The Horde does whatever it takes to ensure the success and well-being of their people. They do not wait for miracles to happen. They simply take action unlike the Alliance.

Do you think the Horde is evil or not?

First off i am a Alliance player so a bit biased.

But yeah i think they are written evil. They have had help from alliance members ( high end ones) but are judging us buy some sick slavers who hold thrall. They where written as the evil invaders in W1+2. Only for W3 + wow they become something else. That plus garrosh stuff, and wrath gate stuff ( i know both of them where not hord anymore ) but still, they where hord members. Its graved in the alliance mind.
But on the other hand. The hord races have some right to hate some alliance members ( dead ones). It was a human prince who made sylvannas what she is today, it was the father of proudmoore who was not so nice against the hord etc etc.
And garrosh ashenvale bullshit ( there was not food there only tree's)...there where other options to go to....he choose ashenvale. He had Azshara, mulgore, feralas to name a few.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Then again, that's just Sylvanas, not the whole Horde. Garrosh ended up being overthrown by his own people because he was an evil leader. Leading a group doesn't automatically mean you represent the whole group.

I mean let's be honest here. garrosh would not have been overthrown if he hadn't gone full on orc-Hitler and fucked up pandaria by corrupting the well in front of the palace. You can be evil all day long as long as you don't fuck your allies.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I know I was just trying to make a point that Alliance aren't all holy and good. They can be just as bad as Horde.

I wouldn’t say they can be just as bad but they can be bad ya.

[dope_danny]

Then again, that's just Sylvanas, not the whole Horde. Garrosh ended up being overthrown by his own people because he was an evil leader. Leading a group doesn't automatically mean you represent the whole group.

True but -and this is from a guy whos first character in vanilla was forsaken- i thought that was one of those 'you can't come back from this' line crosses. Shit even Garrosh was disgusted by what she does to the gilneans i that zone.

and now shes the boss.

[Growel]

Well they seem to want to kill all humans, and that's TOTALLY my species IRL. So I'm going to go ahead and say they're evil. However, they have some rules that they follow, so they're mostly lawful.

[ello]

Does anyone have a comment from Blizz on this topic? The debate is over if they say it's one way or the other.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Incomplete poll options, as usual. The Horde is not all one alignment, because it's made up of races with very different cultures. Baine is not Sylvanas or vice versa.

- - - Updated - - -

The Alliance comes closer to being on the same page as far as ideology. Sure the Gnomes aren't the treehuggers that Night Elves are, but at least you don't see Gnomes dumping waste in streams like the Goblins. It's easier to see Gnomes and Night Elves agreeing on things than Tauren and Goblins. The Horde must feel awfully conflicted sometimes just working together.

[Deleted]

Also it worth noting that the only way to stop the Horde from killing itself is pointing them at someone else to kill, innocents at best.

You are the goddess of evil, how come you don't just tell horde is evil? >_<

[Redecle]

To me it boils to the baseline forming of the two, orcs vs humans.
Although humans were allied to begin with, but it was the orcs who invaded a planet, even if this was forced by their own world being taken from them.
They didn't choose to be refugees, they chose to be conquerors that eventually lead to the formation of the horde to oppose the alliance,
which with time could have included other Azeroth native races, like trolls and tauren. Well that really might not have even been needed to even have a formed coalition, outside of the forsaken who are unnatural by default and the causation from the acts of Arthas, they shouldn't exist in that form.
What the orcs did is the "original sin". That is the tax all the generations that came after the first war have to carry and it cannot be redeemed.
If they had chosen differently and become refugees that Azeroth might have taken in, then the situation would be different, but it's not.
For me on the baseline, it's just that black and white, there are no grey areas, just like the world we live in, you're either good or bad, there's no in-between. That depends on ones actions, there's no redemption or redeeming one's self when you do an action aligning with one or the other.
Because of this, it's enforced that i perceive anyone choosing to play such faction as evil also, even outside the game world.
It's a label, prejudice yes absolutely, but to me playing an evil character basically makes the player evil or "criminal" whatever their crime may be. The only crime they may have committed is that they chose to play the horde, they can be a saint doing charity otherwise, but that choice makes them evil.
There's also corruption, which can occur even as the alliance, but the moment that happens, this person or npc stops representing the alliance. That's the unredeemable action that occurs and after that you're evil, regardless if you've been caught.

[Jastall]

Horde's more chaotic and generally of a darker morality than the Alliance, but evil? Na, and that would be boring anyways.

[Tyrion Moonblade]

They keep slaves.

Orcs have committed genocide no less than 3 times.

Forsaken have committed genocide no less than 2 times.

They have been the aggressor in every war with the exception of the 3rd which was against the scourge.

They have betrayed alliances against greater threats to score cheap victories against the alliance no less than twice.

They use weapons of mass destruction as a matter of course.

Goblins, Orcs, and Forsaken all destroy the environments they inhabit.

The horde as a whole are evil, the presence of the Tauren does not negate the rest. Anyone who thinks otherwise is frankly deluded.

[Heladys]

Because they do the vast majority of the evil things.

[Rudkobing]

The Horde and Alliance are grey. Both have done some fucked up things, and both have done incredibly, heroic things.

[Fus Ro Yay]

Why? because blizzard keeps writing them that way, thats why.

[Logwyn]

Let see... The horde is led by a corpse, they have talking cows, trolls, crack-addicted elves, green pig nose hunch-backs, little green dudes that want to steal your money, and somehow brain washed half the pandas.

How can you not see that they are evil?

[RadasNoir]

The Horde isn't homogeneous or "evil". But its members are frequently scummy, terrible people.

My thoughts as well. The Alliance hasn't really produced anyone quite as bad as either Garrosh or Sylvanas in its recent history. Even the likes of Greymane or Jaina are driven by a desire for vengeance against the Horde for wrongs committed against them and their people, rather than a desire to live up to their family's bloody legacy (Garrosh) or preserve their own miserable existence, whatever the cost (Sylvanas).

Moira Thaurissan could have been the Alliance's version of Sylvanas, doing whatever it takes to advance her own ambitions and the Alliance by extension, but the writers seem to have forgotten about her (outside of the justification for having the Dark Iron Dwarves officially join the Alliance).

[Lochton]

The Horde is, like the Alliance - chaotic Neutral.

It was once confirmed by Blizzard that the Horde, nor the Alliance were considered evil. And no, I can't be bothered to search the link for you.

[Raven]

They are not evil, but they are invaders.