Rethinking body positivity.

[Doctor Amadeus]

As far as I know, there aren't any campaigns encouraging people to love their opioid addictions or two-pack a day habit. If there was, I'd say that society is entirely too tolerant of smoking. I suppose in the 1950s, there really were campaigns to make smoking look hip and cool, and it was awful and caused more cancer. Now we have Lane Bryant doing the equivalent for obesity with their #NoAngel campaign.

So far there aren't any campaigns encouraging people to love being obese, that is just misapplied bullshit by you and "False equivalency"

Again there are many reasons people are obese most of it is genetic and has to do with a range of factors you and most people overly positive or negative are typically not qualified to determine for the average asshole.

So if it comes down to one or the other let people live their lives they way they like and be happy, because we both know Spectral you and the people harping on this shit don't give two fucks about the actual lives you are yapping about. And yes spare me you fathers, cousins, pediatricians is obese bullshit. Lots of epidemics and choices people make kills people.

I say stupidity is right at the top because stupidity rarely just affects the person that makes that choice. However I do think the uptenth faux thread about outrage of people's personal size or eating habits as to what the fuck is wrong with them is more than a little obnoxious.

You don't know how to fix it, there is no magic formula you thought of that nobody else has the stones to do or is too PC or whatever the fuck else.

[Spectral]

So far there aren't any campaigns encouraging people to love being obese, that is just misapplied bullshit by you and "False equivalency"

Again there are many reasons people are obese most of it is genetic and has to do with a range of factors you and most people overly positive or negative are typically not qualified to determine for the average asshole.

So if it comes down to one or the other let people live their lives they way they like and be happy, because we both know Spectral you and the people harping on this shit don't give two fucks about the actual lives you are yapping about. And yes spare me you fathers, cousins, pediatricians is obese bullshit. Lots of epidemics and choices people make kills people.

I say stupidity is right at the top because stupidity rarely just affects the person that makes that choice. However I do think the uptenth faux thread about outrage of people's personal size or eating habits as to what the fuck is wrong with them is more than a little obnoxious.

You don't know how to fix it, there is no magic formula you thought of that nobody else has the stones to do or is too PC or whatever the fuck else.

The fat acceptance movement is filled people encouraging others to love being obese. The #NoAngel campaign is aimed at trying to convince obese people that they're sexy. I suppose it's nothing but commercialism rather than ideology in that case, but I don't see any meaningful difference between that campaign and Joe the Camel telling kids it's cool to smoke.

The genetics excuse is pretty obviously false. The standard deviation for calorie burn rate isn't very large - big variations in efficiency just aren't evolutionarily favored. If there was a way for bodies to be so efficient that people could add weight while consuming little food and moving around a lot, we'd all be that way. There are a very, very few people with legitimate ailments, but almost all obesity is caused by simple overconsumption.

edit - Here's the paper to support my claim above. The SD for basal metabolic rate is ~5-8%. In other words, 96% of people will be within ~125-250 calories of their expected BMR. People are fat because they eat too much, not because of "slow metabolism" or other voodoo.

Ultimately, as I've said many times, people have every right to eat themselves to death. I'd rather not subsidize it the way we do, and I'm certainly not going to pretend that this deep character failing is actually an acceptable way for people to be. There's no virtue in destroying one's body via gluttony.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The fat acceptance movement is filled people encouraging others to love being obese. The #NoAngel campaign is aimed at trying to convince obese people that they're sexy. I suppose it's nothing but commercialism rather than ideology in that case, but I don't see any meaningful difference between that campaign and Joe the Camel telling kids it's cool to smoke.

The genetics excuse is pretty obviously false. The standard deviation for calorie burn rate isn't very large - big variations in efficiency just aren't evolutionarily favored. If there was a way for bodies to be so efficient that people could add weight while consuming little food and moving around a lot, we'd all be that way. There are a very, very few people with legitimate ailments, but almost all obesity is caused by simple overconsumption.

Ultimately, as I've said many times, people have every right to eat themselves to death. I'd rather not subsidize it the way we do, and I'm certainly not going to pretend that this deep character failing is actually an acceptable way for people to be. There's no virtue in destroying one's body via gluttony.

No it is filled with empowering people to not be miserable and to with positivity seek change, which actually helps people, as opposed to this bullshit straight talk tell some ignorant truth from the mouths of idiots who are really unhappy with themselves and indifferent to anybody else living their lives as they see fit on the same level.

I'll be more than happy to start the anti fat acceptance right after the anti stupid acceptance, where we literally fucking start humiliating and destroying the egos of these idiots who really need a fucking reality check hard.

[Blayze]

I can't deny I judge fat people negatively for being fat.
And I can't deny I think I'm being too lenient on them.
Just seeing the damage certain people I know have done to their bodies... it's horrifying.

[Spectral]

No it is filled with empowering people to not be miserable and to with positivity seek change, which actually helps people, as opposed to this bullshit straight talk tell some ignorant truth from the mouths of idiots who are really unhappy with themselves and indifferent to anybody else living their lives as they see fit on the same level.

I'll be more than happy to start the anti fat acceptance right after the anti stupid acceptance, where we literally fucking start humiliating and destroying the egos of these idiots who really need a fucking reality check hard.

Shaming the uneducated is already a thing. It's not like classism is uncommon.

Telling people that being fat is OK doesn't empower them. It's a ridiculous lie intended to spare feelings and nothing more.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Shaming the uneducated is already a thing. It's not like classism is uncommon.

Telling people that being fat is OK doesn't empower them. It's a ridiculous lie intended to spare feelings and nothing more.

No shaming uneducated isn't a thing because you are still here spouting this nonsense, about a campaign you don't understand, against those you seem to target for a hate.

Seriously if you don't like how other people live, don't fucking have anything to do with them, you said it yourself you don't give a shit if they die, I on the other hand care that the cruelty and hatred of these people makes their lives a living hell needlessly by uninformed idiots, pretending to do it for moral or noble reasons.

You can accept people being fat, without accepting that there isn't anything that can be done to help, but being an asshole and reminding people they have a problem and your own unsolicited and uneducated opinion isn't helpful.

[Spectral]

No shaming uneducated isn't a thing because you are still here spouting this nonsense, about a campaign you don't understand, against those you seem to target for a hate.

Seriously if you don't like how other people live, don't fucking have anything to do with them, you said it yourself you don't give a shit if they die, I on the other hand care that the cruelty and hatred of these people makes their lives a living hell needlessly by uninformed idiots, pretending to do it for moral or noble reasons.

You can accept people being fat, without accepting that there isn't anything that can be done to help, but being an asshole and reminding people they have a problem and your own unsolicited and uneducated opinion isn't helpful.

None of this really has anything to do with what I said. I don't "target for a hate" anyone. Most fat people are perfectly nice, lovely people and being fat says nothing at all about whether I personally like them or not - this is as true for obesity as it is for smoking. I can personally like someone just fine without pretending that their vices are actually just as virtuous as the alternative.

[Shakadam]

Right and we know it leads to cancer, people don't smoke because they want to die, or because they don't know it is bad for you, parents, athletes scientist fucking smoke, treating them like shit isn't going to cure that epidemic either or heart disease, which you can have even if you are thin.

I beg to differ.
Smokers have been treated "like shit" for a couple of decades now, with constant health warnings and gruesome images of what smoking leads to, and bans on smoking in many many many places. The amount of people smoking today is drastically lower compared to a few decades ago so obviously the campaigns have worked.

[Toogoodman]

I can't deny I judge fat people negatively for being fat.
And I can't deny I think I'm being too lenient on them.
Just seeing the damage certain people I know have done to their bodies... it's horrifying.

Yeah, i mean when people in their 20s can barely move because their hurts so much, thats a fucking problem.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I beg to differ.
Smokers have been treated "like shit" for a couple of decades now, with constant health warnings and gruesome images of what smoking leads to, and bans on smoking in many many many places. The amount of people smoking today is drastically lower compared to a few decades ago so obviously the campaigns have worked.

Hahaha, yes that is because you don't need to smoke to actually live, that is much easier than banning food. And no it wasn't warning labels, or the realities of smoking and what it did that got those numbers to drop.

We made laws, laws that even know as the rate is lower, people still know all of the above and new people light up all the time. Again you can't fix stupid.

[Iamanerd]

Sorry to hear about your loss, most of the people that have died that I knew from High School etc have been from Opioids. As for the weight issue, I imagine most people who are overweight/fat/obese etc know it, I myself could stand to lose a few pounds and know it, but I think when you get to a certain point there's other issues at play whether it's mental or what not. But still her being 300lbs while large isn't extremely huge, maybe she had some other issues?

[Spectral]

But still her being 300lbs while large isn't extremely huge...

It's literally twice the size of a slightly chubby normal height woman. Carrying an extra person of adipose tissue is extremely huge.

[Rexosaurus]

Fat isn't beautiful and never really will be. But considering the forces conspiring to make people obese, it does seem cruel to be mean to them. People should be encouraged to improve themselves, and diets are important.

I think too many people are narcissistic and don't want to think they need to improve themselves at all.

<3 This like a thousand times.

You don't have to hate yourself to want to improve. For some reason, people seem to think that 'accepting/loving yourself' and self-improvement are mutually exclusive ideas.

As for the topic in general:

For starters, we should make a big effort to educate children when they're young on eating correctly, having a healthy diet, and the benefits of a healthy lifestyle in general. That alone would do wonders imo. People kind of suck at it in my experience.

[Katie N]

Sorry to hear about your loss, most of the people that have died that I knew from High School etc have been from Opioids. As for the weight issue, I imagine most people who are overweight/fat/obese etc know it, I myself could stand to lose a few pounds and know it, but I think when you get to a certain point there's other issues at play whether it's mental or what not. But still her being 300lbs while large isn't extremely huge, maybe she had some other issues?

That is almost more than 3 times my weight. Not extremely huge? xD

[Spectral]

I think she means by the relative standards of what will normally kill someone in their early 30s.

Eh. I linked a CDC page a few posts back that shows relative of cardiac failures based on age, BMI, blood pressure, and smoking. While being 30 and weighing 300 pounds doesn't quite doom you, it certainly opens you up to serious risks that shouldn't normally be much of a problem until one is in their 50s. The numbers I punched in (BMI of 50, blood pressure of 150, 30 years old) gave a 5.6% shot of serious issue. That's a lot for an age where the risk should be basically zero.

[chazus]

I don't think I know anyone who was so fat that they died after hitting 30. And I know some pretty fat people.

edit: Not saying that it's not possible. I just am trying to imagine what you'd have to do to be so fat that you die that early.

They didn't die of 'being fat'.

Apnea can affect anyone, really. But it's something that can possibly be made worse by being overweight.

Heart attacks can affect anyone too. But again, it's something that can be made worse, or harder to diagnose, with weight.

Judging from the dates/numbers, I'm around Celista's age, and I nearly died a couple years back due to a blood problem that I simply didn't get tested/treated for. Shit happens. But if I were 100lbs heavier, it may have killed me sooner, or prevented from getting testing. Hell, I'm a pretty big dude, but I'm also tall/broad. When I originally felt the symptoms of my problem (tiredness, out of breath), I had attributed it to just being a bit overweight at the time, as opposed to running on 30% of normal red blood cells.

That's the problem about obesity. It's not that people die of 'being fat', but there are a hundred other normal complications that are either harder to diagnose, or simply made worse because of it. Being obese doesn't 'cause' those things.

[Spectral]

They didn't die of 'being fat'.

Apnea can affect anyone, really. But it's something that can possibly be made worse by being overweight.

Heart attacks can affect anyone too. But again, it's something that can be made worse, or harder to diagnose, with weight.

Judging from the dates/numbers, I'm around Celista's age, and I nearly died a couple years back due to a blood problem that I simply didn't get tested/treated for. Shit happens. But if I were 100lbs heavier, it may have killed me sooner, or prevented from getting testing. Hell, I'm a pretty big dude, but I'm also tall/broad. When I originally felt the symptoms of my problem (tiredness, out of breath), I had attributed it to just being a bit overweight at the time, as opposed to running on 30% of normal red blood cells.

That's the problem about obesity. It's not that people die of 'being fat', but there are a hundred other normal complications that are either harder to diagnose, or simply made worse because of it. Being obese doesn't 'cause' those things.

This is a bit like saying that a two-pack-a-day smoker that dies from lung cancer didn't die from smoking. Sure, it's completely true that the smoking itself isn't likely to kill you and completely true that non-smokers sometimes get lung cancer, but it's a fair bit of dissemblement to not notice that there's a fair bit of connection there and that the risk created is substantial.

[Swalload]

Fat shaming is bad but telling people it's fine to bury their health under layers of fat is way worse.

[chazus]

This is a bit like saying that a two-pack-a-day smoker that dies from lung cancer didn't die from smoking.

No. It's not. It's not remotely like that. I get what you're trying to say, in that "The gun didn't kill them, the bullet did", but, just, no.

There are no cases of people smoking being good for them. Smoking is an unhealthy habit no matter how you swing it.

Obesity, on the otherhand, has a number of factors. First off, it isn't just 'lol they ate too much' or 'lol they need to walk around more'. It isn't just something you 'took' or 'did' and it happens. Secondly, there ARE perfectly healthy people who are in the obese range (Which is virtually everyone these days, based off certain metrics, which further conflates the problem).

So, no. Obesity, or 'being overweight' is not the same as smoking. It can complicate things, but it won't necessarily do so.

[Iamanerd]

It's literally twice the size of a slightly chubby normal height woman. Carrying an extra person of adipose tissue is extremely huge.

I should have expanded on that, by "extremely" I mean't something along the lines of 400+, I'm not sure of the technical term on it. For her early 30s even at that weight she should still be able to walk and do some normal activity atleast.

- - - Updated - - -

I think she means by the relative standards of what will normally kill someone in their early 30s.

Yeah I should have worded it differently but this is basically what I mean't by it.