Blue confirmed they're considering balancing specs

[Plutarch78]

They should release everything exactly the way it was in classic.

They can tweak things later if needed, but at least start with the original game. When/If people realize the original design sucked, THEN you can start making changes.

Thats a reasonable request, IMO.

[superhumanj]

I mean if they need to make changes to make the game playable then maybe it has to be done.

[Maudib]

I have to ask since you're a Blizzard employee. Does your opinion speak at all for the design team working on this?

It's more of a personal opinion. As you've read numerous times, the team for Classic is just now coming together, so I wouldn't say there's much of an opinion internally one way or the other.

We learned two things. 1) The idea ofd discussion was a personal one, and nothing the devs mentioned. and 2) The Dev team is just now coming together.

If the team is "just now coming together" then it sounds like they are almost done hiring. Since they already have a working build, you can bet they have already figrued out the hardware requirements..

I really think 6-8 months is realistic.

[Sixnno]

I wonder what kind of balance they are considering. New abilities and rotations? Just numbers tuning? Will feral and prot palas be viable tanks?

I am actually OK with number tuning and only number tuning.

Each classes' current spells (or well the spells they had in Classic wow) should not be changed. That should not be touched at all.

However number tuning I am ok with.

Why am I ok with this?

I remember Bus Shock, and how enraged I and my fellow shaman's were when our "balancing" patch had more nerfs then buffs or QoL and we had to share it with mages while other classes got their own focus.

[primalmatter]

True. But since Blizz is a business after all they will want it to be worth the effort. And i think that includes getting more people to play classic than only the very specific targeted community.

Just imagine the average WoW Player that didn't really play Vanilla. They wont last a week. Now i know most classic loving veterans will tell me "Classic is not for them it's for us!" That's good and all but like i said. Blizz is a business.

I am really excited they announced that project and I'm looking forward to play classic once more. But i'm realistic and say there is a fair possibility that there will be changes. And if so i would rather it to be changes like Hctaz suggested instead of just random shit blizzard comes up with.

In that regard i agree with you. They cannot be trusted. But as i see it some things are bound to happen. And if there are people who make good, reasonable suggestions the chance it stays as true as possible to the classic we all like is all the better.

Think I would rather play on private servers then...

Does anyone actually realize why there is a hybrid tax and what it is needed for?

A pally or druid off healing isnt unheard of nor all that ineffective in classic. You have access to the same spells and a large chunk of the talent tree. This isn't simply a rebalancing of stats but the entire reoworking of these classes...

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No I'm not. I'm advocating for the bring the class, not the player... but to make the specs all have a POTENTIAL slot instead of instantly being locked into only one spec forever (unless you're a warrior for some reason???? DPS and tanking gods hello?). The way the balance is right now, it just won't happen at all. I'm not saying that suddenly ret pallys should or would be in every raid (meta is usually the meta), but having the potential to be a little bit more flexible than "bring your best damage specs and your best healing specs and your best warrior tank and that one paladin for buffs" is not the same thing as it is today. Today, if you want a battle rez then you have options. I'm not advocating for those sort of options. Want a brez? You need a druid. Battle shout isn't just a Blessing of Might clone along with Horn of Winter either (hated that shit).

I guess I'm just saying that the whole raid shouldn't feel like it needs to suffer in order to be a little more flexible. The balance in TBC was a lot better since you would bring these specific classes and specs for buffs (which remained party wide only), but they didn't feel like a burden on your group to do so. They weren't your primary DPS or healers, but they made your primary DPS and healers better while still also being able to contribute some to whatever their spec's role was as well. They weren't just told to stand there and do nothing.

Also: in reference to your other post at 6:13 this morning: Believe me, I know. I play retail, but only begrudgingly. I just don't think Blizzard is stupid enough to ruin Classic AGAIN. Old School Runescape made changes and ended up creating an alternative reality time-line to their Runescape 3 game (except OSRS doesn't suck). I think Blizzard can beat that easily. You have to remember that the people that they want to hire for this game are different than the ones working on live.

Most importantly is that we, the community, know exactly what kinds of changes we don't want to see. We don't want to Classic to go down the route of Cata+ where buffs became clones of other buffs. We don't want flying or LFD/LFR. We don't want 4 different difficulties of raids. We just want fucking Molten Core man... not "Molten Core 10 man, Molten Core 25 man, Molten Core heroic 10 man, Molten Core heroic 25 man, Molten Core Mythic 30 man, Molten Core Flex my bumhole man"

We're smarter now than we were before. A lot of us didn't know that these changes would taint the game we liked. We just saw and it said "Well this can't possibly hurt us now"

The biggest reason I have faith in them regarding classic is because of BfA actually. They aren't fixing everything, but holy shit are they gutting a lot. The biggest thing is bringing individual class buffs back. If retail players can get that shit to come back, then I'm pretty sure we can gut any changes we don't like for the future. Even if they ended up going too far in one direction, we as a community can say, "Whoa, step the fuck back dude." They'll listen. If they don't, they've just lost their entire Classic playerbase probably forever.

See the community as a whole is a little to ignorant to demand changes its what kind of fucked wow up to start with.

Lets use ret as a example change goes through and rets do comparable dmg to pures. What is to stop the ret from acting as a effective off healer by specing into holy?

They have the same spells similar enough stats. Suddenly you have a dps that can effectively back up heal...

Your not asking for a rebalancing you are asking for a remastering of the class..

[Hctaz]

Lets use ret as a example change goes through and rets do comparable dmg to pures. What is to stop the ret from acting as a effective off healer by specing into holy?

They have the same spells similar enough stats. Suddenly you have a dps that can effectively back up heal...

Your not asking for a rebalancing you are asking for a remastering of the class..

Oh I don't want them to ever be the same kind of caliber as a pure DPS. I just want them to be a consideration. I don't want rets=mage=enhance=boomkin. I want it to be like... the point at which their damage isn't TOO bad to be considered useful to bring a second one. Right now, you bring a ret for Wisdom, but that doesn't stack (and it shouldn't).

I want them to kind of be this DPS who can effectively back up heal, but who suffers at both a little for doing it. They can't pull out the numbers for either to be one or the other, but they can be considered decent-ish enough at both in order to see them as a valuable slot. I mean, they might just end up still not being taken which is fine as well. If the meta mentality is such that halfsies on either in a slot just still isn't valuable enough to bring more than one for a raid wide benefit, then okay. They tried. I don't want them to become TOO powerful. I don't want the rogues to be replaced with Rets. That's just silly.

Because the thing was that Rets were basically like this anyway. They were some DPS, some heals. They just sucked dick at both dps and healing so you wouldn't want more than one. It wouldn't be a gameplay change at all to make them a hybrid who isn't total ass.

[primalmatter]

Oh I don't want them to ever be the same kind of caliber as a pure DPS. I just want them to be a consideration. I don't want rets=mage=enhance=boomkin. I want it to be like... the point at which their damage isn't TOO bad to be considered useful to bring a second one. Right now, you bring a ret for Wisdom, but that doesn't stack (and it shouldn't).

I want them to kind of be this DPS who can effectively back up heal, but who suffers at both a little for doing it. They can't pull out the numbers for either to be one or the other, but they can be considered decent-ish enough at both in order to see them as a valuable slot. I mean, they might just end up still not being taken which is fine as well. If the meta mentality is such that halfsies on either in a slot just still isn't valuable enough to bring more than one for a raid wide benefit, then okay. They tried. I don't want them to become TOO powerful. I don't want the rogues to be replaced with Rets. That's just silly.

Because the thing was that Rets were basically like this anyway. They were some DPS, some heals. They just sucked dick at both dps and healing so you wouldn't want more than one. It wouldn't be a gameplay change at all to make them a hybrid who isn't total ass.

Any hybrid is going to be like that... you can't have them be good at something and be passible at another...

[Judic]

Oh I don't want them to ever be the same kind of caliber as a pure DPS. I just want them to be a consideration. I don't want rets=mage=enhance=boomkin. I want it to be like... the point at which their damage isn't TOO bad to be considered useful to bring a second one. Right now, you bring a ret for Wisdom, but that doesn't stack (and it shouldn't).

I want them to kind of be this DPS who can effectively back up heal, but who suffers at both a little for doing it. They can't pull out the numbers for either to be one or the other, but they can be considered decent-ish enough at both in order to see them as a valuable slot. I mean, they might just end up still not being taken which is fine as well. If the meta mentality is such that halfsies on either in a slot just still isn't valuable enough to bring more than one for a raid wide benefit, then okay. They tried. I don't want them to become TOO powerful. I don't want the rogues to be replaced with Rets. That's just silly.

Because the thing was that Rets were basically like this anyway. They were some DPS, some heals. They just sucked dick at both dps and healing so you wouldn't want more than one. It wouldn't be a gameplay change at all to make them a hybrid who isn't total ass.

I think everyone is blowing this whole thing out of proportion. I was in a raiding guild in Vanilla. We cleared MC/BWL/ZG/AQ40 up to c'thun (we then disbanded) and we had so many different classes and specs in our raids. We have a few ret pallies, a couple feral druids, and a few other low ranking specs in the raid. We did just fine. We weren't an amazingly competitive guild but we held our own. I then joined a guild that cleared up to Gothik in Naxx 40 (fuck that boss man :|, Cleared Abom, Spider, and Plague wings, couldn't finish DK wing ) with more other random specs in there too. If we were having trouble with a boss, the raid leader would ask people who were hybrids to put healing gear on. That was the benefit of being a hybrid. You could do either. Not be best at either, but pretty good at the one you had the gear on for.

If you're looking to join a cutting edge guild, then yeah, you'll have issues with those specs, but if you're just wanting to raid, you can join a more casual guild that will still clear things. Play what you want and have fun with it. Just because you aren't doing as much dps as the Rogue next to you doesn't mean you aren't having fun. Classic was about rolling 1 character and sticking with it. (I had an alt priest but thats about it.) ENJOY the game instead of worrying about what the person next to you is doing.

[Hctaz]

Any hybrid is going to be like that... you can't have them be good at something and be passible at another...

I mean you can have a class be passable at one thing and decent at another. Like say a default Paladin is "decent" (I rank decent below passable) at both healing and damage. You can then spec into either Holy to make you good at healing and decent at damage, or Ret to be good at damage and decent at healing.

Now you look at a mage/rogue. They're AMAZING at damage, but they're awful at healing.

So if you're thinking the scale is like Amazing>Great>Good>Passable>Decent>Bad>Awful

So what I'm saying is like... a ret paladin will never be able to move off the boss and start healing like a raid viable healer, but they can throw off a heal to keep somebody alive for an extra second or two while they're auto attacking the boss in down time.

From what I understand, it sounds like Ret is "passable" at damage and "bad" at healing where holy is just "Great" at healing. The balance seems like it's off.

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I think everyone is blowing this whole thing out of proportion. I was in a raiding guild in Vanilla. We cleared MC/BWL/ZG/AQ40 up to c'thun (we then disbanded) and we had so many different classes and specs in our raids. We have a few ret pallies, a couple feral druids, and a few other low ranking specs in the raid. We did just fine. We weren't an amazingly competitive guild but we held our own. I then joined a guild that cleared up to Gothik in Naxx 40 (fuck that boss man :|, Cleared Abom, Spider, and Plague wings, couldn't finish DK wing ) with more other random specs in there too. If we were having trouble with a boss, the raid leader would ask people who were hybrids to put healing gear on. That was the benefit of being a hybrid. You could do either. Not be best at either, but pretty good at the one you had the gear on for.

If you're looking to join a cutting edge guild, then yeah, you'll have issues with those specs, but if you're just wanting to raid, you can join a more casual guild that will still clear things. Play what you want and have fun with it. Just because you aren't doing as much dps as the Rogue next to you doesn't mean you aren't having fun. Classic was about rolling 1 character and sticking with it. (I had an alt priest but thats about it.) ENJOY the game instead of worrying about what the person next to you is doing.

Maybe I AM overblowing this situation then. I'm okay to say that I am if it ends up being the case.

You have to remember when I come from. I was a warlock and warrior at a time when they were useful. I didn't raid whenever warlocks were only there for stones and ports, my classes were always useful. I didn't like tanking though, so I stuck to warlock.

[Yamuri]

"it's not vanilla anymore"... good!

Yeah cuz Vanilla really wasn't that great to begin with, glad they are making it obvious by adding flavor to vanilla.

[Swalload]

Remember when they first tried to balance classes?

13 years later we still don't know when they will be done with this task.

[Deficineiron]

It's going to be like Coca-Cola Classic which has HFCS instead of real sugar.

But really, I can't see how it can be called Classic if it is not a reproduction of the original WoW - Vanilla. A classic car is not a car that looks the same as a 1950s car, but has an aluminum body and an iPod dock, its a car that is exact as possible to the original car (most likely an original car with some repair parts that are the same as the ones that were damaged).

but the game itself isn't the classic part- the game they release will give you the classic game experience, however. it will 'feel classic' whatever that means (but they say it).

[chrisnumbers]

Still perpetuating this lie?

[JerseyGhoul]

Right? Very last blue post in that thread before it’s closed is:

I have read the majority of the discussion in this thread, and I think it's easy to see that a majority of posters here are against changes to class balance in any form in Classic. I'll make sure that feedback is passed on when the time comes for it.

Yup, balancing definitely happening!

[Mosotti]

Can this thread be finally closed after we got ACTUAL confirmation that there will be no changes to specs?

[Miake]

Where do you draw the line though? Retridins, cat-druids and elemental shamans in raids? Ugh!

And whats wrong with that? they are viable specs, and at times can do more damage than a pure dps class when played right!

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We are about to complete 2 weeks since the announcement for "Classic" servers.
The discussion usually involved the most viewers of mmo champ, and it is quite a big thing in the official forums as well.
I am afraid that it was premature to announce such a thing and it will backfire in the face of the players that tryed so hard to make Vanilla happen.
It is not fair, to say the least, but i am not surprised.
Only two weeks in an 8 months process at best and we re "discussing" things. And there are a thousand other things to be discussed.
One thing is for sure, mog is in fashion in Azeroth. Good luck to those that struggled, not to see their wish turning into a nightmare.

8 months??? more like 2 to 3 years

[Fayolynn]

Won't be playing it if this happens. Might as well just do all the QoL changes while they are at it. After all its "classic" not Vanilla.

[Orbusg]

Right? Very last blue post in that thread before it’s closed is:



Yup, balancing definitely happening!

I'd be surprised if they actually take that cesspool seriously...
The survey is far more trustworthy than a group of blockheads that stonewall any and all discussion and spamming their walls of no.
Some of them are so butthurt about the survey not agreeing with them 102% that they made their own, to be passed between themselves who are COMPLETELY unbiased, and saying the original is "compromised" because of troll voting and people who don't want a TRUE vanilla experience.
No exaggeration, the bnet classic forums are as hugbox and echo chamber as it gets.

They're just community managers anyway, just the glorified hall monitors of the forums.
They have no impact on anything important really.

[Harbour]

Who are these morons who though the BG on release is a great idea? BG were what killed most of the WPvP in Classic. Damn kids, they want untouchable vanilla and vote for BG on launch. You'll never feel the taste of real Vietnam in STV.

Id actually prefer no BG in classic at all.

[Mormolyce]

Who are these morons who though the BG on release is a great idea? BG were what killed most of the WPvP in Classic. Damn kids, they want untouchable vanilla and vote for BG on launch. You'll never feel the taste of real Vietnam in STV.

Id actually prefer no BG in classic at all.

I feel like this is another good argument for patch rollout instead of fixed 1.12.