BFA foreshadowing as far back as "Tides of War?"

[MardestyGSOG]

False flags from the dreadlord nwo!

[huth]

I think it's the other way around. Not intentional foreshadowing, but rather them using it as a source for ideas.

[Steampunkette]

I think it's the other way around. Not intentional foreshadowing, but rather them using it as a source for ideas.

But that is unpossible! Nonconcievable! Imconsiderable!

You're totally right, by the way, unless broad strokes have been planned out and everything else is just transitional.

[Broken Fox]

I think it's the other way around. Not intentional foreshadowing, but rather them using it as a source for ideas.

A lot of the geniuses in this thread don’t seem to realize that

[Shampro]

An Alliance character doing something even remotely questionable in 2017 blizzard writing? Come on people, blizzard is just gearing up to chop more horde characters , specially warchiefs, character development be fucking damned. Let's not kid ourselves.

[ro9ue]

I don't think it would make sense for Jaina to have burned it down. I just don't think it fits her character at all.

She seems to be someone who cares about doing the right thing, and wouldn't suspend her moral code to be an "ends justifies the means" type character. Otherwise she'd be right along side Arthas during the Culling of Stratholme.

[Steampunkette]

I don't think it would make sense for Jaina to have burned it down. I just don't think it fits her character at all.

She seems to be someone who cares about doing the right thing, and wouldn't suspend her moral code to be an "ends justifies the means" type character. Otherwise she'd be right along side Arthas during the Culling of Stratholme.

I disagree... people change. She was ready to flood Orgrimmar, killing all of the innocents alongside the guilty, after Theramore. She tried to imprison every hordie she saw on Dalaran after the Bell, but didn't do anything about her people who were beating, robbing, and murdering hordies. She's changed as a character in a profound and actually fairly well written arc that has been carried through since she appeared in WC3.

She's probably my favorite character in the game, and I could actually see her destroying Darnassus (Albeit in a way that allows as many people to escape as possible) as a way to get the Alliance to destroy the Horde at this point.

That said, the foreground of the Teldrassil image shows a battlefield of swords and broken weapons so it's highly unlikely Jaina is behind it.

[ro9ue]

I disagree... people change. She was ready to flood Orgrimmar, killing all of the innocents alongside the guilty, after Theramore. She tried to imprison every hordie she saw on Dalaran after the Bell, but didn't do anything about her people who were beating, robbing, and murdering hordies. She's changed as a character in a profound and actually fairly well written arc that has been carried through since she appeared in WC3.

She's probably my favorite character in the game, and I could actually see her destroying Darnassus (Albeit in a way that allows as many people to escape as possible) as a way to get the Alliance to destroy the Horde at this point.

That said, the foreground of the Teldrassil image shows a battlefield of swords and broken weapons so it's highly unlikely Jaina is behind it.

There's a massive difference between retaliating against an attack from a foe, and killing innocent allies in order to drum up support to retaliate on said foe. At least I would hope one would think it is.

[Steampunkette]

There's a massive difference between retaliating against an attack from a foe, and killing innocent allies in order to drum up support to retaliate on said foe. At least I would hope one would think it is.

The Alliance aren't her allies. They made that clear when Varian decided not to wipe out the Horde Leadership in the Siege of Orgrimmar. She also has no allies in Dalaran, where the Council of Six outvoted her on allowing the Horde to return to Dalaran.

So long as she felt she could ensure the safety of the civilians, (And as a powerful mage who once teleported the entire Alliance "Army" out of the Undercity on her own I think she could do so easily) she'd destroy Teldrassil itself.

... man... That would be freaking cool.

Jaina doing a bunch of bullshit to get the Elves and Orcs fighting in the pre-patch content, then when Sylvanas refuses to go through with the actual burning of Teldrassil, she does something to frame the Horde for it's destruction before appearing in Darnassus to save everyone with a big Teleport to Stormwind spell as a way to appear Sympathetic to the Alliance and convince Anduin to finally walk the path his father declined, the path to War against the Horde, with promises of using her family's power in Kul'Tiras to get more aid and specifically ships since the Horde and Alliance are now basically on opposite sides of the world...

... I could see her doing that. And it -would- hearken back to the book.

[Thage]

This is actually a pretty interesting discovery. Jaina -has- held a grudge for a while. Maybe -she- lit Teldrassil on fire and framed the Horde, just to spark the war she always wanted.

Except that would be an overtly evil act bordering on unintentional genocide, something that Jaina refuses to do since it would make her just as bad as Garrosh. And Blizz has said repeatedly since Blizzcon that Jaina is not going to be a villain in this expansion--she's flawed, not evil, and much of her story arc is going to apparently involve retreading her development from War Crimes.

Odds are that if Teldrassil was an inside job/false-flag operation, it was either from the Desolate Council in an attempt to force the Alliance's hand so their goal of returning the Forsaken to the grave can be attained, or another false-flag from agents of the Old Gods to ignite a war so the Alliance and Horde are weakened before N'Zoth's return.

[ello]

An Alliance character doing something even remotely questionable in 2017 blizzard writing? Come on people, blizzard is just gearing up to chop more horde characters , specially warchiefs, character development be fucking damned. Let's not kid ourselves.

i feel like i should make this my signature

[Shampro]

i feel like i should make this my signature

You have my blessing, because I would be legitimately surprised if they go in another direction even though they have laid the seeds for her character development especially since legion and her cinematic debut. They tent to throw all that out the window with warchief potentials, ultimately leaving a huge hole for the horde while the alliance " comes out on top". I will be shocked if they prove me wrong.

[Steampunkette]

You have my blessing, because I would be legitimately surprised if they go in another direction even though they have laid the seeds for her character development especially since legion and her cinematic debut. They tent to throw all that out the window with warchief potentials, ultimately leaving a huge hole for the horde while the alliance " comes out on top". I will be shocked if they prove me wrong.

It would really be nice to see the Horde not only come out on top with the whole faction war, but as the actual heroes in the situation while the Alliance plays the bad guys. Not just "It wasn't our fault" or whatever, but actually holding the moral high ground.

It'd be pretty cool, but probably can't happen under Sylvanas 'cause she isn't the "Moral High Ground" sort of person.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I doubt they planned that far ahead (some fanbois will surely tell me diffrently tho), she was going on about targets close to the orcs, which pretty much narrows it down to theramore and the tree. There are also only 2 things you can do with a tree, chop it down or burn it. Burning is probably more dramatic, albeit more nonsensical given the size of the damn thing.

I'm stil curious how they will justify the whole damn thing catching fire, shard of gorribal or not, something that can actuall just incinerate all of it somehow feels like it should just blow it away first. Maybe some weird cursed flame that just keeps in spreading. Either way, it's interesting how Golden will manage that, given how she is a full time employee now I very much expect this to be even closer to the lore devs' vision compared to all the mercenary writing she and others have done in the past (where alot of details get pinned on the writer, like sentient raptors and Jaina's Anatomie).

[huth]

I doubt they planned that far ahead (some fanbois will surely tell me diffrently tho), she was going on about targets close to the orcs, which pretty much narrows it down to theramore and the tree. There are also only 2 things you can do with a tree, chop it down or burn it. Burning is probably more dramatic, albeit more nonsensical given the size of the damn thing.

Did you really just call chopping Teldrassil down more sensical than burning it? We're talking about a tree with at least a several hundred meters diameter trunk.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Did you really just call chopping Teldrassil down more sensical than burning it? We're talking about a tree with at least a several hundred meters diameter trunk.

Not really chopping it like actually putting a saw to it. But with all the iron horde garbage still lying around I figured maybe if they bombard it with iron stars (the shredder balls were called that, weren' they?) or they just blow a hole in the side and make it (or more like parts of it) fall over that way. In lore I also wouldn't expect the whole thing to completely fall over, more like some of the huge branches at the top coming down. Actually setting fire to something so large and have it engulfed in flame is fairly difficult, though you are right, it's both completely implausible. Either way something that huge just getting destroyed so thoroughly (as the artworks suggest) is just strange, even with magic McGuffins.

[deviantcultist]

This is actually a pretty interesting discovery. Jaina -has- held a grudge for a while. Maybe -she- lit Teldrassil on fire and framed the Horde, just to spark the war she always wanted.

My thoughts as well. Rather interesting turn of events.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It would really be nice to see the Horde not only come out on top with the whole faction war, but as the actual heroes in the situation while the Alliance plays the bad guys. Not just "It wasn't our fault" or whatever, but actually holding the moral high ground.

It'd be pretty cool, but probably can't happen under Sylvanas 'cause she isn't the "Moral High Ground" sort of person.

No, the obsession with making the Alliance bad guys is is pathetic. I mean I understand Hordies not wanting to be baddies either but don't throw the Alliance under the bus.


OT: I don't think Jaina would burn down Teldrassil. I mean she did help Tyrande and the Night Elves back when so why use deception just to start a war.

[Broken Fox]

Except that would be an overtly evil act bordering on unintentional genocide, something that Jaina refuses to do since it would make her just as bad as Garrosh. And Blizz has said repeatedly since Blizzcon that Jaina is not going to be a villain in this expansion--she's flawed, not evil, and much of her story arc is going to apparently involve retreading her development from War Crimes.

You mean like the Purge of Dalaran? Haha Jaina’s out of her fucking mind.

[rasako]

I mean, at blizzcon before WOD was announced metzen said they had expansions lined up and planned out way ahead of time, and referenced "like a six shooter", implying the next six expansions after mop were already tied together narratively, meaning the overarching plot was already largely decided upon.