you think you do, but you dont

[FireVoodoo]

Nope, I played Vanilla, specifically as a healer, that's why I'm campaigning for free talent resets (spec swap) (still only at class trainers). Being a healer is just outright punishing in Vanilla. I'm on the fence of even bothering, I'm 50/50 currently, there's literally one thing I never achieved in vanilla, and that was Naxx, I did some of Naxx, but I didn't "beat" Naxx, I'd love to go back and beat it now. That's all that's really there for me, all the friends I made still play, I'm in the same social guild I was in then, I still have 1 toon off in a raiding guild so that I can play endgame, of which I've conquered all of the end game PVE content since TBC. There is ONE raid in the history of this game I have not completed, and I never will if the game is exactly as it was.

That one change is what will be the deciding factor for me, playing a tank or a healer and you encounter the exact same issue, it takes 4 times longer to achieve anything and I don't find any interest in DPSing, So if I played, I'd be stuck in the same rut I was before, the difference is I know I don't have to tolerate the terrible game design of 13 years ago, because WoW today is so much more accepting of peoples real world time commitments, it was OK back then because I was a no-lifer teenager. Now I'm a adult with a home and a family, I've not got time for that ridiculous shit anymore.

-- You should drink between mobs, you should die if you pull 3 mobs, you should have to work to attune to raids.
-- You SHOULD NOT be forced into farming for 4x longer because your a healer, or having to fork out hundreds of gold most days to respec and save yourself some pain. The endgame needs healers, I think it will genuinely be a problem in the endgame if it's the same as it was because nowhere near as many people will tolerate it as they did before.

Aside from that one, very minor thing, I'd want it to be 99.9% pure Vanilla.

This is literally the first somewhat convincing QoL begging post I ever red. Maybe you are kind of right. But it is f-king precedent. Do it and floodgates are open. I’m not totally onboard but I definitely feel your pain. And you are definitely not a troll (unlike 80% of others).

[Spacewalrus2010]

isnt it extremely ironical that classic WoW this year was announced by j. allen brack ? the very same that said infamous 'you think you do, but you dont' phrase ?
clearly mocking the person asking a question (about legacy servers) as if he was too stupid to gather group other way than dungeon finder

im not sure what was blizzard thinking, but i would cut him off from anything vanilla related at least from PR side of things

i find it offensive and disrespectful to whole WoW community, especially those who wanted legacy servers

heres the link to full video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wrw3c2NjeE

Are you a child?

[Warrax]

Well Allen Brack is actually right in a way but only to those that want Vanilla but never played aka TOURISTS but for those that exactly know what Vanilla is and what to expect, yes we do

To the one that complain that it take 4x times as a healer (and a tank), I don't know what to say other than "this is vanilla" and "this is how classic RPGs works" but I see your complain...I just think this is part of the MMORPG philosophy of that game. I mean you have to group with friends so they kill stuff for you. In classic RPGs healers (well, priests and other cloth based healers) are weak and that's intended, healers have to be in groups to be viable just like the Warrior need a healer to avoid downtime.

Your reward is at lvl 60 where there is huge demand for healers and tanks.

[Deleted]

isnt it extremely ironical that classic WoW this year was announced by j. allen brack ? the very same that said infamous 'you think you do, but you dont' phrase ?

I think that was the point.

[redwolfrain]

The threads asking for changes to vanilla is a testament to that statement.

Some people like classic cars, other people like classic cars with modern motors/luxuries. This will never change, in my opinion vanilla was great game. However even I would like to see more specs being viable and a few other changes, but blizz has already shot that down.

[iamthedevil]

I think having him do it made it clear that Classic WoW will not be a Vanilla WoW clone. I agree with him.

[Occam-OC]

people asking for changes are obviously present times players that never actually experienced vanilla. they consider classic another expansion, next to battle for azeroth, and want all todays quality of life improvements implemented.

because people that want true vanilla experience, exactly how it used to be, went to play on private servers and would be happy with the game as it was

I've played consistently for the past 13 years. I experienced every expansion from beginning to end. I DEFINATELY want some QoL changes. Do not categorize people who want some QoL as "people that never experienced vanilla".

Your opinion is no more or less valid than the next person's so stop acting like it is. And your opinion does not define the Warcraft experience of other players who may want something different than you.

[Krille]

I've played consistently for the past 13 years. I experienced every expansion from beginning to end. I DEFINATELY want some QoL changes. Do not categorize people who want some QoL as "people that never experienced vanilla".

Your opinion is no more or less valid than the next person's so stop acting like it is. And your opinion does not define the Warcraft experience of other players who may want something different than you.

Nevermind the fact that for people to know what QoL changes they want they would have had to experienced the original vanilla.

[bash the fash]

I've played the game since launch, but I don't want QoL changes because that's not rly vanilla. Vanilla was irritating and tedious and some people want irritating and tedious I guess, let them have their irritating and tedious fun. I'd much rather they just did a Wrath server tbh. Good spot for 'quality of life', best raids, and pretty much all classes where they ought to be.

[Deleted]

Judging from a lot of posts I am seeing the "you think you do, but you dont" quote has proven correct, it's very clear we have no idea what we want when it comes to vanilla or at leat a lot of people don't. :P

It just proves that indeed vanilla isn't for everybody, but nobody were arguing against that fact. However, a very large number of player still want pristine vanilla servers without any changes.

All these accusations of trolling from the vanilla crowd is a bit ironic. It's a bit of their own medicine being force fed to them now, and I for one don't feel sympathy for them. Let them experience their own tactics upon themselves.

But they already experienced it, back in vanilla and TBC when the "tourists" tried wow and begged blizzard for QoL changes through endless QQ on the forums. Blizzard then listened to the tourists and we reached eventually WoD and Legion.

The only think that changed from back then is that indeed the old MMORPG community, that was perfectly content with vanilla and TBC, learned to whine too on the forums (and is whining very loudly now so classic servers aren't ruined, because it seems blizzard listen mostly to whoever whine the loudest).

[Dhrizzle]

Well let's say 1 million people really wanted a Classic server. They ask for it and get "you think you do but you don't" in return.
After a year they finally announce the development of a Classic Server.
But now every Tim and Tom who did not gave it any thought before jumps in, spouting out their ideas on how it should be.

The people who wanted Classic Servers, still do.
Now there is only a loud majority who never wanted them in the first place, but only will play them if it fits their desires.

Again, Classic Servers should be as Authentic as possible, if you want Legion QoL, Classic is not for you.

What if you want Vanilla content with TBC variety in viable specs?

[Deleted]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that the ability to change your opinion on things based on evidence and experience is good quality for a leader, not one that makes him unfit for the job. It's a strength, not a weakness.

[gkai]

I think having him do it made it clear that Classic WoW will not be a Vanilla WoW clone. I agree with him.

They kinda confirmed it yesterday that it's basically going to be a clone. What they're debating is what version of WoW is going go be released on launch.

[iamthedevil]

They kinda confirmed it yesterday that it's basically going to be a clone. What they're debating is what version of WoW is going go be released on launch.

If you are talking about the dev QA, they didn't make that clear at all. Ion just said they won't be moving away from the original community and inconveniences. They just want to know which time period to start it in. That has nothing to do with being a clone.

[thunterman]

This is literally the first somewhat convincing QoL begging post I ever red. Maybe you are kind of right. But it is f-king precedent. Do it and floodgates are open. I’m not totally onboard but I definitely feel your pain. And you are definitely not a troll (unlike 80% of others).

If anyone wants to raid at all, then something needs to be done about the mess of healing in Vanilla, because noone will want to heal. Very very few people will tolerate the bullshit. Healers were scarce back then, it would be even worse now. By the time your level 20 your gonna just say "fuck this, I'm going DPS" There will be literally no hope of doing dungeons while levelling, there won't be any level 20 healers or tanks to do deadmines, unless they can run over to SW and spec to tank /healer (For free).

I've seen people say "it doesn't cost that much" but I was raiding 5 nights a week, that's a minimum of 10 respecs a week for me, AKA 500g, 500g in vanilla? That was a huge amount. I'd say I spent a good 15-20 hours raiding per week, on evenings after school, I farmed and grinded for gold every second I was online other than that, I'd just about manage to get my pots and shit for the raids in that time, with almost no overhead. I was sat on less than 100g for the entirety of Vanilla.

I couldn't respec, I had no choice in the matter. It's ultimately what lead to be quiting wow the second they announced TBC, because I couldn't be bothered with wasting my time, knowing it was all for nothing because of the expansion.

I appreciate you understanding where I'm coming from. My drive isn't to make it "easier" I want it as it was, My reasons aren't selfish either to be honest, free spec swaps would ultimately inject more healers and tanks into the game, and thus make dungeons faster to group for, without a shitty queue system, guilds wouldn't disband in the months it took to form a raid group. I mean shit, look at what naxx did to guilds... You need 8 fucking warrior tanks, the poaching was out of control. SO MANY guilds died. The time it took you to find 1 tank, you'd of lost 5 DPS and a healer, it was a vicious circle. I know the gearing process alone takes the most time here, but I found back then that warriors weren't even willing to spec swap for one boss regardless, because it would cost them 100g a week.

[Mormolyce]

I actually completely agree with him, sure there are some people who remember Vanilla warts and all and are totally fine with playing a game full of warts. But a significant proportion of the playerbase remembers the good times and has forgotten all the shitty aspects of it.

I remember trying to get dungeon groups together for low level dungeons in Wrath, before LFD. Fucking nightmare.

[Revamp Man]

isnt it extremely ironical that classic WoW this year was announced by j. allen brack ? the very same that said infamous 'you think you do, but you dont' phrase ?
clearly mocking the person asking a question (about legacy servers) as if he was too stupid to gather group other way than dungeon finder

im not sure what was blizzard thinking, but i would cut him off from anything vanilla related at least from PR side of things

i find it offensive and disrespectful to whole WoW community, especially those who wanted legacy servers

heres the link to full video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wrw3c2NjeE

he called it

announced servers and less than 24 hours later

"vanilla +" threads

[thunterman]

I actually completely agree with him, sure there are some people who remember Vanilla warts and all and are totally fine with playing a game full of warts. But a significant proportion of the playerbase remembers the good times and has forgotten all the shitty aspects of it.

I remember trying to get dungeon groups together for low level dungeons in Wrath, before LFD. Fucking nightmare.

Human memory is terrible, your brain will lie to you and tell you it was awesome, people are gonna log in and then the bad memories will flood back. I can think back without rose tinted glasses, Yes, it was amazing *at the time* Yes it was 3 great years for me that I enjoyed, but my god what a terrible game it was. You'd hit a bug every 5 minutes, the game was unnecessarily punishing to the minority of people who made it even work (healers and tanks), You had to dedicate near infinite hours to achieve anything relevant. There was invisible time gating just give you the illusion of content, I mean really, think long and hard about how much there was to do once you hit 60.

- PvP
- Dungeons
- Grinding for... no clear reward?

That was pretty much it. You spent 300 hours grinding to afford an epic mount. There wasn't "lots to do" there's not even 10% of what there is to do now, it was just in-accessible. Then came Raiding. You had your epic mount after weeks of hard work, now you had to grind for 10 hours to earn the mats / gold for 3 hours worth of raiding. That's not 13 hours of content, that's 3 hours content that's locked behind 10 hours of invisible time gating. This is where the notion of raids being harder then comes from too. Just because it took a month for a boss to be killed doesn't mean it's harder, because for that month, more that 50% of the time, that boss wasn't being fought, that raid team was, you guessed it, grinding herbs e.t.c for consumables. The difference is now, that you can farm for an hour and have enough mats to raid for a solid week. This is why bosses die faster, because you don't have to piss away hours of your life in preparation. Some guilds are sponsored, most members take time off work when a raid releases. was there a single guild in existence that raided 7 days a week for 2-3 weeks after a raid came out? No.. I don't think so. I raided for 2-3 hours 4-5 days a week, and that was excessive back then, the guilds that got those 1month first kills, probably were raiding for 5 nights a week, totalling not much more than 15-20 hours a week. The likes of method raid for about 12 hours a day when a raid comes out. You put all this into a comparable perspective, and you realise it takes double, if not more for raids to be cleared now. Raids weren't hard (save for Naxx) stepping foot inside was the hardest part.

I know your all gonna rage at me, I'm not saying classic is a bad idea e.t.c. I'm gonna play it, but it infuriates me when people just say it was so amazing. Thinking retrospectively, it's possible the worst game I've ever played. It's not as hard as people remember, it's just a massive time sink.

[Proskill]

I actually completely agree with him, sure there are some people who remember Vanilla warts and all and are totally fine with playing a game full of warts. But a significant proportion of the playerbase remembers the good times and has forgotten all the shitty aspects of it.

I remember trying to get dungeon groups together for low level dungeons in Wrath, before LFD. Fucking nightmare.

then vanilla isnt for u
simple as that

[Lolsteak]

I actually completely agree with him, sure there are some people who remember Vanilla warts and all and are totally fine with playing a game full of warts. But a significant proportion of the playerbase remembers the good times and has forgotten all the shitty aspects of it.

I remember trying to get dungeon groups together for low level dungeons in Wrath, before LFD. Fucking nightmare.

Just because people playing Legion enjoy their QoL changes doesn't mean we need to make Vanilla into Legion 2.0.

Vanilla is going to be Vanilla, The good and the bad, If you don't enjoy that it simply isn't meant for you.