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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggot Ur View Post
    That was the best part about Vanilla lol. Go play legion where all of that is trivialized to the level of happy farmer.
    I played vanilla. I rather enjoyed it. My shadow priest raided everything but AQ40 (that includes Naxx40) when everything was current content only because I took a break from playing around that point because of school. Hell I got to tank Ony as a shadow priest 3 times in vanilla (one time was an all priest raid too). I was attuned to every dungeon and held every key in the game. I made bank opening up UBRS for people or healing a 45 minute Baron run if I happened to heal that week for my guild & hadn't switched back to shadow. I had a hunter and rogue alt that were my farmers to get me what I needed to be ready for raids or craft stuff to sell. I have a warlock that still has her epic mount quest items in the bank that I can't bring myself to destroy. I will play some time on the vanilla servers when they get added finally but I won't devote as much time there as I will the current game because I rather enjoy the conveniences more with the current game than vanilla. But I will say this, I'm hoping that the mounts you can get on the vanilla servers will carry over to the current servers because I am still pissed that I can't get Whistle of the Ivory Raptor because I was working on my Darkspear rep to buy it (love this mount & think it is still the best looking raptor mount in the game) when Blizzard decided to remove it. I did end up getting my Darkspear rep to exalted and got my raptor riding skill during vanilla but never got this beauty

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    It had the impact that you took the strict minimum required of these specs, then filled he rest with the real DPS that most people actually wanted to play. I remember Ion uses the windfury totem example several time as a ''bring the class not the player'' thing. You needed one in the melee group, that was mandatory, any more and it's a total waste. Unlike, say, healers where you can decide to bring one more than usual if you take loads of damage to be safe, or the occasion where you 3-tank encounters. That's why support powers don't really work in a MMO setting if you ask me.
    Then that kind of works right? The least represented classes are the least needed in number (but still desirable), whilst the popular classes like Rogues and Mages can swarm in. I mean it seems like a self-balancing prospect.

    Definitely not a total waste just wasted potential between efficiency of the 'support DPS' and the best DPS for the job. In the context of easy raids with little to no DPS checks it doesn't seem like a big deal. If you were hitting DPS brickwalls (again Naxx unsure) then you'd have a solid case because then literally only 1 can come per 40 man raid no matter what.

    The biggest issue was their support was class based, so you'd just make them heal because healers are; 1. harder to find. 2. more useful when DPS isn't a concern. 3. aren't as gear hungry as DPS. That's why TBC moved towards offensive support being baked into specs (unleashed rage springs to mind).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Also having your DPS be dependent on another person doing their job kinda sucks. They tried to re-introduce that with Ret Pally's Greater Blessing of Might in Legion and almost everybody hated it.
    It's a team orientated activity, I'm not really sure how to respond to that one. Like, that's raiding in a nutshell.

  3. #383
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    it will be just 5-6 spec/class combination and rest can "gtfo"
    Nobody is stopping you from creating a group and taking whoever you like.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by duannyboy View Post
    ''WoW Classic won't be moving away from the community and inconveniences''

    Are better graphics moving away from the community and inconveniences? No
    Are more balanced specs moving away from the community and inconveniences? No, class balance isn't a QoL convenience change.
    one could say being forced to heal on a pally is inconvenient
    being forced to only play a certain spec is inconvenient
    class balance in vanilla is the definition of inconvenient

    just look at the ppl wanting pally tanks "oh its easy just give taunt and some armor buffs"

    but those werent the only problems you also had mana aoe threat and the fact gear was terrible for prot so in order to be viable you need to change all that and in the end you then have the dominant tank and warriors complaining for balance

    those classes worked fine 13 years ago they will work fine 2 years from now

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I remember Ion uses the windfury totem example several time as a ''bring the class not the player'' thing.
    Which is quite clearly wrong. I was raiding as melee back in TBC where every melee group needed an enh shaman, and it allowed us to bring the player we wanted to bring rather than bring the highest dps. Our enh shaman was a weaker player who we couldn't otherwise bring, but just bringing them to drop the totem (and they did learn to do totem swapping eventually) allowed us to bring the player we wanted—when Blizzard got rid of this design in WotLK we eventually had drop the shaman because they just couldn't compete on dps with other melee and they no longer brought anything unique that would've justified bringing them.

    Also having your DPS be dependent on another person doing their job kinda sucks.
    For me it's an absolutely crucial part of making the game interesting. If you're not dependent on other players, it just turns the whole thing into a solo game. WoW was a lot more interesting when you had to design your raid teams with specific compositions (like needing enh in melee group) and when threat was still a mechanic forcing you to track what other people were doing rather than just tunneling on your own dps.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Daggot Ur View Post
    There were NO useless specks in Vanilla. They all had different purposes. L2P
    Looks like you haven't played it then. Good luck raiding as a ret pally, ele shaman, or moonkin

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Yep. That pretty much sums up most of the people spouting their idiotic ideas in these threads right now, and they'll be so vehement about their ideas while proving at the same time that they certainly never played in Vanilla.
    I'll freely admit to never playing Vanilla back in the day, started in TBC and it was somewhat of a suprprise to find out the one good thing about them (mana battery-ness) wasn't even a vanilla skill, and that it was added later. But hey, Mind Flay will heal you for a few HP per tick, wooo :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Looks like you haven't played it then. Good luck raiding as a ret pally, ele shaman, or moonkin
    TIL only thing that wasn't useless was hardcore PVE raiding.

    Protip: Ele shaman were beasts in PVP as were Ret paladins. Moonkin less so but most of that tree was useful to healers. Good luck coming up with an example that refutes his point though. I'm sure you'll succeed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leperix View Post
    to design your raid teams with specific compositions (like needing enh in melee group)

    Use resto shaman and take another fury warrior Just sayin'
    Last edited by AeneasBK; 2017-11-18 at 01:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  8. #388
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Use resto shaman and take another fury warrior Just sayin'
    Totem buffs were group-wide, not raid-wide.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Leperix View Post
    Totem buffs were group-wide, not raid-wide.
    Yes I'm saying you put your 2-3 rsto shaman in the melee groups rather than give a raid spot to a dedicated enhance shaman. Take another fury warrior instead :P

    Disclaimer: It wasn't a particularly serious comment Sure the extra AP from speccing into imp WF totem aws ncie but ultimately just having WF unbuffed was such a boost; and another warrior or rogue would make up the difference easily
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  10. #390
    Just reading many of the posts in this topic... and holy shit this "classic" community screams toxic as fuck. So glad the classic servers will keep you all busy and in one place, so that the rest of us can play in peace and quiet on live servers.

    Vanilla/classic is so much better and more hipster and oldschool, so please don't comeback.

  11. #391
    Really like this statement from blizz. Classic is classic, just the way it should be.

    Gonna level a boomkin just to hit mobs with my stick to get mana.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2017-11-18 at 02:12 PM.

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Looks like you haven't played it then. Good luck raiding as a ret pally, ele shaman, or moonkin
    They were not ment for raiding smarty pants. They were for pvp only!

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Daggot Ur View Post
    They were not ment for raiding smarty pants. They were for pvp only!
    This is the concept people can't wrap their heads around. They want their spec be the one that fits all. And all of these calls to buff balance druids are insane as they were one shot machines of death on battlegrounds already.

  14. #394
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    It's amazing to see how the "raid or die!" mentality has taken hold of many among the anti Vanilla crowd. Well, Blizz has been promoting it since WotLK at least, so I actually shouldn't be amazed... For these folks, it's all about "MUH DEEPZ" or (seldom) "MUH HEALZ", so I can see where their hatred comes from.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by RapBreon View Post
    Then that kind of works right? The least represented classes are the least needed in number (but still desirable), whilst the popular classes like Rogues and Mages can swarm in. I mean it seems like a self-balancing prospect.

    Definitely not a total waste just wasted potential between efficiency of the 'support DPS' and the best DPS for the job. In the context of easy raids with little to no DPS checks it doesn't seem like a big deal. If you were hitting DPS brickwalls (again Naxx unsure) then you'd have a solid case because then literally only 1 can come per 40 man raid no matter what.

    The biggest issue was their support was class based, so you'd just make them heal because healers are; 1. harder to find. 2. more useful when DPS isn't a concern. 3. aren't as gear hungry as DPS. That's why TBC moved towards offensive support being baked into specs (unleashed rage springs to mind).



    It's a team orientated activity, I'm not really sure how to respond to that one. Like, that's raiding in a nutshell.
    Yeah, and what if you had several Shamans or Priests who wanted to play DPS specs? Sucks to be them, reroll into a real DPS class or heal? That's the epitome of bad design and false choices if you ask me.

    Team oriented is different from team dependent. Depending on a healer or tank doing their job is normal, that's their role. Having your DPS be reduced if you don't have X buffbot holding your hand is not the same thing. Team effort is everyone doing their role properly, not most people doing their roles while the rest stand there. I quit my pally early in MC because I found that gameplay supremely unfun.

    And of course as you say, that doesn't work with the sort of DPS checks introduced as early as Naxx.

    I think the raid buffs re-introduced by BfA are a better kind of utility and support toolset, so long as they're decently implemented at least.

  16. #396
    Unironically the Vanilla community is the largest inconvenience.

    Ayooooo.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Talvindius View Post
    Unironically the Vanilla community is the largest inconvenience.

    Ayooooo.
    If you consider classic as something that should be designed to give an additional playground to those who prefer the current iteration of WoW then I guess that's true.
    Basically an "alt server" for people who main current. Is that what you think classic should be?

    I would love, and seriously hope they deliver a product that is aimed at a playerbase that prefers something as close to vanilla as possible. In which case, I guess the Vanilla community would not be an inconvenience.

    This way they would provide a product for both kinds of players.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Looks like you haven't played it then. Good luck raiding as a ret pally, ele shaman, or moonkin
    you both are half right

    those specs were used by minority because majoriity didnt know better.

    but we are not in 2004 we are in 2017 - noawadays people sim every single aspect of game an gear/abilities and what he desires will never be true again.

    people who claim that without class balance 2/3 classes/spec combo wont be used are liers of worst kind - they are tricking people into beliving that if they roll moonkin or ele shammy they will have fun - and they wont - they wont be doin dungeons they wont be doin raids - what they will do will be wasting another 2 months to level up a class that is actually playable.

    ffs you are talking about community that requires 940 itlv for mythic 0 dungeons.

    ofc they will demand only bis specs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    It's amazing to see how the "raid or die!" mentality has taken hold of many among the anti Vanilla crowd. Well, Blizz has been promoting it since WotLK at least, so I actually shouldn't be amazed... For these folks, it's all about "MUH DEEPZ" or (seldom) "MUH HEALZ", so I can see where their hatred comes from.
    so you gonna deny the fact that people who will make groups will make exackly those requirements ?

    and that people who have unplayable specs and try to make groups will be ignored ?

    becasue what will happens is " the maker of groups is not one of bis specs f... him lets look for another group with actual dps/heals/tanks without shit knowoffs who perform subpar"

    thats how it will end.

  19. #399
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    so you gonna deny the fact that people who will make groups will make exackly those requirements ?
    Are you going to deny the fact that anyone is free to make a group with whatever requirements they wish? If you don't like some requirements, make your own group with different requirements.

  20. #400
    Last factor in all this that noone is discussing is the way they do this may also depend on pay scale and long term goals. If this is a side venture for them to make a quick buck. They will charge a seperate sub fee and cater to whoever buys it. If they are intent on trying to bring people back it will be a normal sub fee possibly forcing you to buy BFA to access it. Or fully just for us vanilla fans reactivate and you have access which will be origianl no changes imo. It will be dependent on thier vision of whats most profitable

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