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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponizedPillows View Post
    Does no one here understand how significant of an issue gambling addiction is? The whole reason gambling is moderated as heavily as it is isn't because of the chance of failure, it's because of the psychological manipulation pushing people to keep trying for a positive outcome.

    Why is everyone hand-wringing and defending this practice? At best, it is baby's first gambling addiction, and should not be supported. If developers want microtransactions in the game, let it be an open market like Warframe's.

    There is no reason loot boxes should exist in video games except to get people to spend more money than they otherwise would have on the items they actually want. They can't take as much money from you if they just sell you the item you are after, so they dick you around with random chance. It is the exact same manipulation that causes "real" gambling to be monitored so heavily.
    It's not about "hand-wringing" or "defending the practice," it's about the loot-box system not fitting the legal definition of gambling so it's pointless to attack them that way.

    Now if the loot-box system (or a particular iteration of it) is using similar psychological effects to unfairly coerce consumers into spending money there may be protection laws against it, especially if it is targeting vulnerable people or children.

    Here's the UK's official legal stance on the matter;

    Where the facility exists for players of video games to purchase a key to unlock a bundle containing an unknown quantity and value of in-game items as a prize, and where there are readily accessible opportunities to cash in or exchange those awarded in-game items for money or money’s worth, then these elements of the game are likely to be considered licensable gambling activities. In contrast, where prizes are restricted for use solely within the game, such in-game features would not be licensable gambling. The Gambling Commission is committed to working with the video game industry to prevent gambling-related harm related to their platforms.

    Consumers are also protected by the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. This includes a requirement on businesses not to subject anyone to misleading or aggressive marketing practices, or, for example, direct exhortation to buy products, such as games content, including in-game purchases such as loot boxes. The government is committed to ensuring that consumers are properly protected and that children’s vulnerability and inexperience is not exploited by aggressive commercial practices.

  2. #262
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    Hearthstone is free to play, and buying packs or arena runs does not mean you are paying to win. I have yet to buy any packs of cards and have most cards from every expansion so far, minus legendaries.
    Hearthstone being free to play doesn't make it any less pay to win or justify gambling in it. If loot boxes are going to be ruled as gambling in one game so should hearthstone packs or any other similar form random chance "mystery boxes/packs".

  3. #263
    Scarab Lord Mister Cheese's Avatar
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    Never thought Loot boxes would make me look like a communist but here I am.. ban this shit.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It's not about "hand-wringing" or "defending the practice," it's about the loot-box system not fitting the legal definition of gambling so it's pointless to attack them that way.

    Now if the loot-box system (or a particular iteration of it) is using similar psychological effects to unfairly coerce consumers into spending money there may be protection laws against it, especially if it is targeting vulnerable people or children.

    Here's the UK's official legal stance on the matter;
    Sometimes the law needs adjusting to reality.

    Like how old Dutch laws state that a router is purely a connection hub and not a storage device, so breaking into a router is not actually a breech of privacy (huisvredebreuk), even though routers have been hosts and storage for a decade. Recently got changed to reflect reality.

  5. #265
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    This would be great. But I don't see it happening.

  6. #266
    On one hand fucking good I hate RNG boxes just give me badges that I can buy heroes with.

    On the other if people pay for them that's kinda on them.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by mavfin View Post
    See, I hate the nanny state people like you. You want to legislate everything you don't like. Let people make their own choices. If you don't want to pay for loot boxes, then don't.
    I don't want loot boxes any were near the games I play, Battlefront 2 and Shadow of war set a very nasty president, why should I get my wallet out to pay to play the damn game, I bought it all ready. If this gets rid of them fucking bring it on.

  8. #268
    I mean it technically is, your spending money to Possibly get the legendary you want not a direct purchase, however i dont know many casinos that let you play for free and give you a chance at winning the prize just for playing for free. so i dont consider it gambling because you can earn everything without money, it might take 100s of hours like in ow

  9. #269
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    This doesnt look good:


    Now the new *witcher* game can end up with lootboxes or something worse.
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Jademist7 View Post
    You mean "psychological", right?

    Anyway, I doubt they create unhealthy spending habits in regular individuals (ergo people who don't already have the proclivity to develop addictive behaviors). I haven't spent money on loot boxes, neither have majority of the people I know who play Overwatch.

    By your logic, we should just shut down all advertising and marketing since that "manipulates" people to spend their money "unhealthily". I doubt you're a mental health care professional.
    Yes, was a typo, i meant psychological.

    And people with addictive personality are target for those schemes. Now we call them whales, in some years we would call them victims.

    We should not advertise gambling. Yes. Glad we agree. Take your hyperboles to other topics.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    This sums it up well. Sure you get a chance at something everytime. But if a slot machine gave you a free penny does it stop being something designed to get you hooked for multiple revisists? not really.
    Being addictive has no bearing on the definition of what is and isn't gambling. It is kind of a dick move to psychologically engineer your content delivery system to mimic the dopamine rush of a slot-machine win - I wholly agree that is what's going on here - but the psychological manipulation/addiction aspect has never been part of the definition of gambling.

    I would like to see stronger oversight on these kind of manipulation tactics, but I'd also like to see people just be a little more savvy and self-aware and counsel themselves against unwise purchases.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    At least, I hope not, as that would be a very serious disconnect from reality.
    It honestly seems to me like most of the 'loot-box-is-gambling' crowd seem to think this is how everyone else who plays the game besides them behaves. Everyone else is stupid and they're the only ones smart enough to not buy loot boxes, because they know what Blizzard's up to!
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Didn't help that he had Sky Admiral Warcrimes McEvillaugh flying his airship for him.
    hi im tydrane from dranasuss

  12. #272
    Ok so you guys argued back and forth for 14 pages about what "gambling" is, can we have some info about this process now? I mean I guess people got nothing better to do at their job but let's forgo the argument for once and for all?
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Tydrane View Post
    It honestly seems to me like most of the 'loot-box-is-gambling' crowd seem to think this is how everyone else who plays the game besides them behaves. Everyone else is stupid and they're the only ones smart enough to not buy loot boxes, because they know what Blizzard's up to!
    I don't think that's of any relevance at all. I've bought lootboxes in some games, or paid for random loot chances, like in Naruto Online, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the system abuses the same psychological suggestion that gambling does, to ..persuade.. the players to keep spending money. In fact they're patenting algorithms that will increase the initial enjoyment of the initial purchase to increase the satisfaction of buying these items.

    It might not be phrased correctly by law, but it's the psychological part that is the reason why we have the law in the first place. Now it turns out the law is simply not extensive enough.

  14. #274
    Loot boxes are NOT gambling. When you gamble you have a chance to win something of monetary value, when you purchase a loot box you have a chance a winning something of no monetary value. Which seems worse?

  15. #275
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    Ea stock went down by 7%, by media reports, but from graff it seems much more.

    From 120.9 on 6.Oct.2017 to 108.82 on 17.Now.2017

    Don't sweat the details!!!

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    Loot boxes are NOT gambling. When you gamble you have a chance to win something of monetary value, when you purchase a loot box you have a chance a winning something of no monetary value. Which seems worse?
    You spend money with the believe that your investment will in time return. Whether that be in more money, or in other goods, is irrelevant.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by mavfin View Post
    So you want to take away other's choices, because you can't trust yourself not to buy something? That's on you.
    Why the f are you defending buying stuff that would have otherwise been in the game??

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by mavfin View Post
    I understand that, but it's their choice to buy it. So why are you bothering with it? Maybe they want to buy more chances at skins. Point is, it's their business, not yours. So why are you trying to stick your nose in it? I don't even play Overwatch much, so I don't buy them.

    I just don't like governments sticking their noses in places that they have no business in. They never stop regulating once they start.
    Here is the problem: Battlefront 2 was PAY TO WIN. It wasn't just cosmetic shit, it was shit that gave people who opened their wallets a CLEAR gameplay advantage. And to make it worse, they show you what the enemy has equipped when you die so you can see all their shinies and go: "I WANT THAT", open your wallet...and pay them.

    But the other issue is that lootboxes are outright gambling. Something that is heavily regulated in regular society, and shouldn't be anywhere NEAR video games. It's basically raising a new batch of gambling addicts, which is a very real and serious issue. These people CANNOT control themselves and these game publishers are profiting off of this.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Sometimes the law needs adjusting to reality.

    Like how old Dutch laws state that a router is purely a connection hub and not a storage device, so breaking into a router is not actually a breech of privacy (huisvredebreuk), even though routers have been hosts and storage for a decade. Recently got changed to reflect reality.
    This isn't adjusting the law to reality though. Gambling laws typically exist to regulate the cash flowing around, they don't need to be changed to regulate things people feel are like gambling when there are consumer protection laws that already cover that ground.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by mavfin View Post
    So deal with the people who can't control themselves. That's not my problem, or yours. That's on them. There are mechanisms in place to help them.

    Let normal people make their own choices, bad or good, and live with them. Don't need government in this any deeper than they already are. I trust them even less than the game companies, even EA.

    It is our problem because it is ruining games. They are DESIGNING the games to be a chore to play unless you PAY THEM MORE. If you think anything less than that, you are blind to the bigger picture.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

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