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  1. #1

    DK DPS going into Antorus: Feels weak man?

    I don't know about you guys, but both of the DPS specs doesn't appeal to me at all for Antorus:

    First off, unholy: The T20 Valkyr build, set bonuses and gameplay rotation has been absolutely amazing to me, I had a ton of fun playing the spec and progressing mythic ToS with it.
    The T20 bonuses is amazing because it turns AOTD into something even more fun and major, the only little downside is that the spec is not top tier at all for M+ because of the way our damage need to ramp up.

    Frost T20 ? I hate it. After the talents changes, the frost specs feels like a ruin field. I can't see any interesting synergy with talents and even worst: they are pretty much all boring.

    The last talents row doesn't make any sense, Obliteration feels like a weak cooldown on top of being extremely boring. Killing machine procs are not really a big deal, sitting at 32% crit atm I alrady have a lot of procs.
    Breath of Sindragosa ? Meh. This talent seems to be extremely situationnal now, we might use it for cleave and that's it.
    HRW: Wtf is this thing even doing here ? WHY IS THIS THING A 3 MINUTES COOLDOWN ??

    So we are pretty much using a meh talent because the 2 other ones are garbage, wich is not a good state at all. I actually miss the NH BoS, because even if the spec had downsides, it was much much better than this crap.

    Looking at T21 sets, both Unholy and Frost are lame. When T21 Frost has been introduced people were telling me that it was a place holder.
    Aight, but we are now 1 week from Antorus and it seems like this is really what we are going to have.

    15% more dmg on 3 abilities and a freaking proc, really ? How can we be fine with this shit, this is so bad, lazy and lame design.

    T21 Unholy is not interesting either, but it actually seeems to be really weak outside of pure ST dmg (and even on ST, i'm pretty sure we will be smashed by warriors)

    So yeah, I am worried and not happy. I would like to know what are you guys thinking ?

  2. #2
    Welcome to the state of the DK Class going on for the last seven years.

  3. #3
    I actually think Death Coil Defile Death's March build might be interesting, but it's hard to top t20 Valkyr Unholy build.

  4. #4
    Frost is broken right now. There are some talents which just don't make sense like HRW and Glacial Advance. They tried to fix the BoS domination and ended up with this current mess of a "talent tree".

    Blizzard also has this wierd trend of making the most boring talents the best talents. Like Runic Attenuation... 1 runic power per auto attack... why is this the go to talent for max dps!

    Unholy is pretty cool, but the DA playstyle is very specific and I'm kinda growing a bit tired of it.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2017-11-18 at 04:09 PM.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bewbew View Post
    I actually think Death Coil Defile Death's March build might be interesting, but it's hard to top t20 Valkyr Unholy build.
    first raids soul reaper based builds

    second raid valk based builds

    third raid... i just can't guess...

  6. #6
    Immortal hellhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkwhyevernot View Post
    first raids soul reaper based builds

    second raid valk based builds

    third raid... i just can't guess...
    Defile, and it may actually be happening with Death March lol.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    performing very well as frost and this will not change going into Antorus.

    again i urge mmo-c dk's to change their philosophy from well gear determines what i do and how i perform to a much more suitable my playstyle decides what i do.

    see 'how's frost now?' for detail on how the majority of dk players on mmo-c could use my techniques to greatly improve and be top 3 in all encounters.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Piz813's Avatar
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    Waaaaaa I'm not number one by a mile anymore like in NH
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  9. #9
    Immortal hellhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piz813 View Post
    Waaaaaa I'm not number one by a mile anymore like in NH
    God I hate these kinds of posts. It's not what he said at all. In fact, OP didn't even mention dks' place on the meters at all.

    The problem with dks is that their design is just getting lazier every raid.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Piz813's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    Defile, and it may actually be happening with Death March lol.
    I enjoyed death March defile very much before obtaining the good UH oranges. I'd come back if this is the case

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    God I hate these kinds of posts. It's not what he said at all. In fact, OP didn't even mention dks' place on the meters at all.

    The problem with dks is that their design is just getting lazier every raid.
    They sure are not lazy in the complaints department. Shits not out for 2 more weeks. O didn't see "on the PTR TODAY" anywhere on the Op statement ...
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  11. #11
    Frost is probably the least changed spec since release and there always seems to be complaints about it. I for one have played frost from the start and enjoyed it throughout, If you're "newer" to the class maybe its just not for you. I'm looking forward to playing it in antorus if it does surpass unholy like it seemingly is.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Piz813's Avatar
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    The cycle is this:
    Frost is under tuned, they fix, we at the top, everyone else bitches, we get Fd on the A
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    Immortal hellhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piz813 View Post
    The cycle is this:
    Frost is under tuned, they fix, we at the top, everyone else bitches, we get Fd on the A
    They have a right to bitch, we have no business being at the top. It's traditionally a mage/warrior/hunter/warlock reserved spot. I'm more than ok with being middle of the pack though.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Piz813's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    They have a right to bitch, we have no business being at the top. It's traditionally a mage/warrior/hunter/warlock reserved spot. I'm more than ok with being middle of the pack though.
    I hear ya. Some will rise above the middle as usual which is nice to see.

    The selling point of frost at launch was an icy juggernaut dealing high damage with low mobility. When they took away prescene and deaths advance.
    So it was true for 7.1.5 and 7.2
    MG fix and then BoS in NH. In the grand scheme of things it should only matter where you are on the charts on your personal raid team. The better you are the better everyone else does collectively and then your progression for your guild is good.
    Kids that live life by SIM craft and say frost is above survival on WoL are getting too crazy.
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  15. #15
    I agree with op, frost gameplay became very low skill cap and boring compared to unholy the moment they nerfed breath of sindragosa. If they didn't make frost t21 much more overpowered than unholy t21, there would be no reason to play the spec at all for the rest of the xpac.

    There's literally no such thing as runic power management when it comes to frost, you literally just press frost strike when u can't press obliterate or howling blast rime proc since resources are so abundant in the spec.

    First row talent between Runic attenuation and icy talons is really dumb since if you pic runic attenuation you'll have way more runic power than you need, and if you pick icy talons you won't have enough runic power to make it work. So obviously you pick runic attenuation cause why starve yourself when you don't have to?

    Last row talent is the same dumb thing. Why would you ever pick hungering rune weapon to flood yourself with even more resources you can't ever spend fast enough??? Breath of sindragosa became some meme skill that people take when they feel lucky enough to get multiple 15% procs on belt on fights that are around ~2.5 mins. Obliteration is just the most boring skill there is cause your rotation really doesn't really change from what you normally do anyways when it isn't active...it just makes your screen light up everytime you press something.
    Last edited by Casawn; 2017-11-20 at 01:23 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Casawn View Post
    I agree with op, frost gameplay became very low skill cap and boring compared to unholy the moment they nerfed breath of sindragosa. If they didn't make frost t21 much more overpowered than unholy t21, there would be no reason to play the spec at all for the rest of the xpac.

    There's literally no such thing as runic power management when it comes to frost, you literally just press frost strike when u can't press obliterate or howling blast rime proc since resources are so abundant in the spec.

    First row talent between Runic attenuation and icy talons is really dumb since if you pic runic attenuation you'll have way more runic power than you need, and if you pick icy talons you won't have enough runic power to make it work. So obviously you pick runic attenuation cause why starve yourself when you don't have to?

    Last row talent is the same dumb thing. Why would you ever pick hungering rune weapon to flood yourself with even more resources you can't ever spend fast enough??? Breath of sindragosa became some meme skill that people take when they feel lucky enough to get multiple 15% procs on belt on fights that are around ~2.5 mins. Obliteration is just the most boring skill there is cause your rotation really doesn't really change from what you normally do anyways when it isn't active...it just makes your screen light up everytime you press something.
    Personnal opinion, but I'd take obliteration over breath any day. I would hate myself if for some reason I fucked BoS up because of some random mechanics. And it happens a lot more than you think, unless you give no regards to your teamates.
    I have no problem doing BoS, I just hate having to tunnel the boss for like 1 min straight. It's stupid.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by JordanCapozzi View Post
    I don't know about you guys, but both of the DPS specs doesn't appeal to me at all for Antorus:

    First off, unholy: The T20 Valkyr build, set bonuses and gameplay rotation has been absolutely amazing to me, I had a ton of fun playing the spec and progressing mythic ToS with it.
    The T20 bonuses is amazing because it turns AOTD into something even more fun and major, the only little downside is that the spec is not top tier at all for M+ because of the way our damage need to ramp up.

    Frost T20 ? I hate it. After the talents changes, the frost specs feels like a ruin field. I can't see any interesting synergy with talents and even worst: they are pretty much all boring.

    The last talents row doesn't make any sense, Obliteration feels like a weak cooldown on top of being extremely boring. Killing machine procs are not really a big deal, sitting at 32% crit atm I alrady have a lot of procs.
    Breath of Sindragosa ? Meh. This talent seems to be extremely situationnal now, we might use it for cleave and that's it.
    HRW: Wtf is this thing even doing here ? WHY IS THIS THING A 3 MINUTES COOLDOWN ??

    So we are pretty much using a meh talent because the 2 other ones are garbage, wich is not a good state at all. I actually miss the NH BoS, because even if the spec had downsides, it was much much better than this crap.

    Looking at T21 sets, both Unholy and Frost are lame. When T21 Frost has been introduced people were telling me that it was a place holder.
    Aight, but we are now 1 week from Antorus and it seems like this is really what we are going to have.

    15% more dmg on 3 abilities and a freaking proc, really ? How can we be fine with this shit, this is so bad, lazy and lame design.

    T21 Unholy is not interesting either, but it actually seeems to be really weak outside of pure ST dmg (and even on ST, i'm pretty sure we will be smashed by warriors)

    So yeah, I am worried and not happy. I would like to know what are you guys thinking ?
    Seen lots of PTR fights and Unholy DK's were in a pretty good spot damage wise.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiz View Post
    Personnal opinion, but I'd take obliteration over breath any day. I would hate myself if for some reason I fucked BoS up because of some random mechanics. And it happens a lot more than you think, unless you give no regards to your teamates.
    I have no problem doing BoS, I just hate having to tunnel the boss for like 1 min straight. It's stupid.
    The thing with BoS is it requires complete knowledge of the fight even with it's shortened duration. When you know the fight inside and out, breath usage gets better and better. Thing is, BoS doesn't last a minute anymore. Your average BoS will be 20-25 seconds. Some RNG or lack there of will make it swing down to 15-40 seconds though as well.

  19. #19
    I agree mechanically Frost isn't great right now. We have almost no talent synergies left, and far too many talents relegated to "never take this."

    At least I'm hopeful that BoS will be viable/preferred given the new tierset and potential scaling benefits of the legendary belt. Breath builds would also feel much better if ERW was on a 2 minute cd. Its already a lackluster talent, at least then it would synergize with BoS.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Icedcoffeee View Post
    I agree mechanically Frost isn't great right now. We have almost no talent synergies left, and far too many talents relegated to "never take this."

    At least I'm hopeful that BoS will be viable/preferred given the new tierset and potential scaling benefits of the legendary belt. Breath builds would also feel much better if ERW was on a 2 minute cd. Its already a lackluster talent, at least then it would synergize with BoS.
    I hate hate hate hate BoS builds. To me Frost is not viable unless the Machine Gun built is viable.

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