Sylvanas at Stormwind, Darmok at Tenagra...

[Domcho]

Because black bear.

[ello]

The one thing that seems bizarre to me about Sylvanas going after Stormwind is that the "battle we have both longed for" line combined with Varimathras' post raid dialogue suggest she has been plotting this since at least WOTLK, back when her only goal was vengeance on Arthas . She wasn't after immortality, she wasn't concerned with building an army(nor did she have the ability to), so what could have motivated Sylvanas, in WOTLK, to attack Stormwind?

That whole prologue just felt so strange, it's like Golden is trying to convince Horde players to dislike Sylvanas so the backlash wouldn't be as bad when she gets raided.


On the topic of Anduin, the only problem I have with this character is that he was effectively given plot armor for the next 20 years because of that stupid vision Velen had. I don't want him to become an edgelord or anything, but as it currently stands there is nothing at stake with this character, no matter what situation he is in you know he will win, and that's just boring.. The fact that Undercity is a response to Teldrassil coupled with his lack of obvious flaws makes it feel like he is already the perfect, do-goody High King, and he just got the freaking job!

[StationaryHawk]

Anduin is hands down the most disappointing character in wow history. As a priest, he had potential to have a great story arc. He could have gone from bright eyed holy, to getting some damn character progression by snapping and going full shadow and psychotically anti horde. This could have happened at many points, but best of all could have been after the death of his father. But nope, cry baby bitch boy Anduin is all we get. I want there to be at least one alliance leader that I can say is awesome. Then again, horde side we've only got Sylvanas left.

Yeahn, "snapping and going full shadow" is not a great story arc.

[Steampunkette]

Because black bear.

THAT is some high quality shitposting and I salute you, sir.

The one thing that seems bizarre to me about Sylvanas going after Stormwind is that the "battle we have both longed for" line combined with Varimathras' post raid dialogue suggest she has been plotting this since at least WOTLK, back when her only goal was vengeance on Arthas . She wasn't after immortality, she wasn't concerned with building an army(nor did she have the ability to), so what could have motivated Sylvanas, in WOTLK, to attack Stormwind?

That whole prologue just felt so strange, it's like Golden is trying to convince Horde players to dislike Sylvanas so the backlash wouldn't be as bad when she gets raided.


On the topic of Anduin, the only problem I have with this character is that he was effectively given plot armor for the next 20 years because of that stupid vision Velen had. I don't want him to become an edgelord or anything, but as it currently stands there is nothing at stake with this character, no matter what situation he is in you know he will win, and that's just boring.. The fact that Undercity is a response to Teldrassil coupled with his lack of obvious flaws makes it feel like he is already the perfect, do-goody High King, and he just got the freaking job!

It is really weird, which is why I think the battle might be against Greymane who just happens to be in Stormwind or maybe the battle for peace now that she's in charge of the Horde, since she tried to join the Alliance post-Scourgewar but was denied (as I recently learned!).

As to Anduin's plot armor... I don't think he actually has it. Illidan proved that the Prophecy about him was, at best, misguided. Since they thought he'd wind up all Lightforged and Naaru-powered and he laser-ganked Xera instead. Similarly, Velen's prophecy about his son's death came true, but was something that totally blindsided him when it finally happened, so the Light's Prophecies have plenty enough fuckery to strip off plot armor at a moment's notice.

- - - Updated - - -

Neither is being a cry baby bitch boy, but at least madness and possible void lord connections are a step in a better direction.

At this point I think you've proven at least half of your forum name correct. You're too focused on the hypermasculine "Crying makes you weak" to recognize the value of an emotional male character in a narrative and instead seem to only want to see him turn to violence and rage...

Kinda sucks, but at least it's not the most common opinion in this thread.

[Oblider]

So this is the state of this site now? You all rather a "whiny cry baby bitch boy" Anduin instead of "deep seated hated to the point of madness" Anduin is disturbing to me. Especially in a game that keeps trying to revive the alliance vs horde theme.

This is so edgy... but still I'm not 12 anymore

[Kithelle]

Anduin is hands down the most disappointing character in wow history. As a priest, he had potential to have a great story arc. He could have gone from bright eyed holy, to getting some damn character progression by snapping and going full shadow and psychotically anti horde. This could have happened at many points, but best of all could have been after the death of his father. But nope, cry baby bitch boy Anduin is all we get. I want there to be at least one alliance leader that I can say is awesome. Then again, horde side we've only got Sylvanas left.

In other words a cliche we've seen plenty of times, even in WoW itself?

[ello]

It is really weird, which is why I think the battle might be against Greymane who just happens to be in Stormwind or maybe the battle for peace now that she's in charge of the Horde, since she tried to join the Alliance post-Scourgewar but was denied (as I recently learned!).
.

The thing is she didn't have a feud with Greymane in WOTLK either, she clearly didn't care about him back then since Gilneas and Undercity never had problems before Garrosh came along.

As to Anduin's plot armor... I don't think he actually has it. Illidan proved that the Prophecy about him was, at best, misguided. Since they thought he'd wind up all Lightforged and Naaru-powered and he laser-ganked Xera instead. Similarly, Velen's prophecy about his son's death came true, but was something that totally blindsided him when it finally happened, so the Light's Prophecies have plenty enough fuckery to strip off plot armor at a moment's notice.

It's not a prophecy like Xe'ra's, it's a vision of the future. Besides, I never really thought the Illidan prophecy would come to be, mainly because it came out of nowhere and never fit with his character. But Blizzard have been setting up Anduin to be "what Arthas could have been" since at least Cataclysm, their one chance to have him "lose" or make a mistake was in BfA, and it doesn't look like it's gonna happen.

[Domcho]

THAT is some high quality shitposting and I salute you, sir.

But what if the book ends with Sylvanas either running to Stormwind through the whole Elwynn Forest, finding an empty spot to pick up her corpse and hearthstone away, OR, ends up in Orgrimmar showing off on her black bear?

Now seriously on the topic. I have a question: How can the Horde even attack Stormwind? It's not like in-game where you get 40 ppl, teleport to Stonard or Blasted Lands and fly to Stormwind. If you're going for the Alliance capital lore-wise you need a big army, ships, zeppelins, siege weapons, propaganda and a good raid leader commander. I doubt after all those expansions, the Horde has a strong enough force and resources to even get to the gates or harbor of Stormwind.

As for her goal, it could be to deal with Greymane. But the whole attack on Stomwind scenario wouldn't be approved by neither Varok nor Baine, probably not by Lor'themar. So there are 2 problems - army and people's support. Perhaps if she has a good enough reason (if we can think of one), the support will come to her. But the force to commit an attack, on the other hand...

[Jester Joe]

These responses... no wonder I hate alliance players. "No being a worthless cry baby is unique!" "Even though no alliance leader except gen wants to kill people that's too many!" "We need pure bitch boys! Manning up and becoming shadow is wrong!"

Yeah going to go camp some alliance in Argus. You people disgust me.

because you clearly don't even know Anduin if that's how you summarize him.

He took a hands on approach to trying to figure out what the cultist were doing in Stormwind during Cata, despite the risks to his own life. He was among the first to land on Pandaria, and he made sure to explore and learn instead of curling up and "crying", like you claim his personality is. He challenged Garrosh alone, several times. He risked his own life to stop the Divine Bell scheme. He killed a Dreadlord alone and without any remorse or "crying".

seriously, if you read this comic-
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...on-of-the-wolf

And STILL think he's a worthless cry baby, well, that's not just an opinion, you're just factually wrong. Not to mention, he hasn't actually "cried" or "whined" lately even at all. Shown remorse and sadness, yes, but his father was kinda blown up into dust of course he's going to grieve a bit over that.

Your issue is that he's not a cliche you like at that point. Not that he's actually useless.


And in regards to the OP, it would make the most sense for number 2 to be what she planned, logically speaking. But the bit of info we got about the situation makes it seem clear that she wants the army geared up again, which wouldn't be needed for a peace negotiation. Also while yes, some leaders would be against it, they can't just pull out their entire force that easily. It's very possible that she would have the support of the common Horde member, especially the orcs when promised a better life.

[Steampunkette]

The thing is she didn't have a feud with Greymane in WOTLK either, she clearly didn't care about him back then since Gilneas and Undercity never had problems before Garrosh came along.

That's certainly debatable? But during the first three Warcraft Wars, Gilneas was the big powerhouse nation that Lordaeron kept turning to for aid. In the first game they handed over a token force, in the second they gave ships and such, but after Lordaeron refused to commit genocide and slaughter babies like Thrall, Greymane got pissed and built his wall, refusing aid any further. Had he not done so, had Gilneas honored it's various treaties with Lordaeron for mutual protection and whatnot, Lordaeron might not have been destroyed by the Scourge.

Had Greymane taken in refugees from Lordaeron, they'd have survived. Had Greymane done anything to help, the Forsaken as they are, now, might not exist. The Scourge might not have been able to get to the Sunwell and raise Kel'thuzad if Gilneas's superior forces had helped in the fighting.

A case could be made that Sylvanas and Blighcaller, as well as the now undead citizens of Lordaeron, would hold a grudge since WC3, but one they couldn't act on because of the Greymane Wall.

[Hubbl3]

Holy guy going evil is not interesting, it's cliched.

Same with holy guy being holy.

[Steampunkette]

But what if the book ends with Sylvanas either running to Stormwind through the whole Elwynn Forest, finding an empty spot to pick up her corpse and hearthstone away, OR, ends up in Orgrimmar showing off on her black bear?

Now seriously on the topic. I have a question: How can the Horde even attack Stormwind? It's not like in-game where you get 40 ppl, teleport to Stonard or Blasted Lands and fly to Stormwind. If you're going for the Alliance capital lore-wise you need a big army, ships, zeppelins, siege weapons, propaganda and a good raid leader commander. I doubt after all those expansions, the Horde has a strong enough force and resources to even get to the gates or harbor of Stormwind.

As for her goal, it could be to deal with Greymane. But the whole attack on Stomwind scenario wouldn't be approved by neither Varok nor Baine, probably not by Lor'themar. So there are 2 problems - army and people's support. Perhaps if she has a good enough reason (if we can think of one), the support will come to her. But the force to commit an attack, on the other hand...

That's why I think the Battle isn't as literal as people are making it out to be. An actual all out attack on Stormwind would see the Horde destroyed.

But Sylvanas could roll up with a small to moderate sized army, not enough to take the city, but big enough to be a threat, under a white flag to engage with Anduin. He's still at least interested in peace, so would probably not drop his whole military on her if she came with an army since that would start a war, so he'd listen to her demands, or offers, or whatever.

I don't think the army is there to attack Stormwind, but to intimidate Anduin. A show of force to let him know that war is on the table and he needs to take the Horde seriously.

[Domcho]

That's why I think the Battle isn't as literal as people are making it out to be. An actual all out attack on Stormwind would see the Horde destroyed.

But Sylvanas could roll up with a small to moderate sized army, not enough to take the city, but big enough to be a threat, under a white flag to engage with Anduin. He's still at least interested in peace, so would probably not drop his whole military on her if she came with an army since that would start a war, so he'd listen to her demands, or offers, or whatever.

I don't think the army is there to attack Stormwind, but to intimidate Anduin. A show of force to let him know that war is on the table and he needs to take the Horde seriously.

But how do you get to Stormwind with a token force in the first place? It's a suicidal attempt.

[ello]

That's certainly debatable? But during the first three Warcraft Wars, Gilneas was the big powerhouse nation that Lordaeron kept turning to for aid. In the first game they handed over a token force, in the second they gave ships and such, but after Lordaeron refused to commit genocide and slaughter babies like Thrall, Greymane got pissed and built his wall, refusing aid any further. Had he not done so, had Gilneas honored it's various treaties with Lordaeron for mutual protection and whatnot, Lordaeron might not have been destroyed by the Scourge.

Had Greymane taken in refugees from Lordaeron, they'd have survived. Had Greymane done anything to help, the Forsaken as they are, now, might not exist. The Scourge might not have been able to get to the Sunwell and raise Kel'thuzad if Gilneas's superior forces had helped in the fighting.

A case could be made that Sylvanas and Blighcaller, as well as the now undead citizens of Lordaeron, would hold a grudge since WC3, but one they couldn't act on because of the Greymane Wall.

Fair points, I can agree that the rest of the Forsaken may be holding a grudge(though we never atually saw it) but Sylvanas herself never did. She tried to kill herself after Arthas die because her only goal in undeath was accomplished. If anything else was important orif she still had a score to settle, she wouldn't have impaled herself on Saronite.

Even now she hasn't expressed a desire for vengeance against Greymane, it's more like he is an annoying dog that keeps following her around.

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I'm thinking Blizzard is just gonna write it as Sylvanas wants corpses and Varimathras found out...somehow. The issue of opposition from other Horde leaders will be initially written away as them being fools that were easily manipulated.

It's also worth noting the wording implies this is something she has planned for the future. In the interim her plan is to rebuild her army and "keep the coffers full"(maybe full of Azerite that just happens to be on Teldrassil?) and the attack on Stormwind doesn't come until much later, if at all.

[GreenJesus]

These responses... no wonder I hate alliance players. "No being a worthless cry baby is unique!" "Even though no alliance leader except gen wants to kill people that's too many!" "We need pure bitch boys! Manning up and becoming shadow is wrong!"

Yeah going to go camp some alliance in Argus. You people disgust me.

Dude.. As a staunch Horde fan I don't want another alliance leader to turn into Jaina and Genn. Its stupid as fuck.

[Steampunkette]

But how do you get to Stormwind with a token force in the first place? It's a suicidal attempt.

White Flag it.

By approaching under a flag of truce, she can approach to talk terms (one way or another) with her army on stand-by as a visual reminder of the danger of denying her. She'd still have to walk away under the white flag, rather than starting a war right that moment, but y'know... it'd be possible.

[Aaronioslo]

These responses... no wonder I hate alliance players. "No being a worthless cry baby is unique!" "Even though no alliance leader except gen wants to kill people that's too many!" "We need pure bitch boys! Manning up and becoming shadow is wrong!"

Yeah going to go camp some alliance in Argus. You people disgust me.

how simple minded you must be.

[ONCHEhap]

Anduin is hands down the most disappointing character in wow history. As a priest, he had potential to have a great story arc. He could have gone from bright eyed holy, to getting some damn character progression by snapping and going full shadow and psychotically anti horde. This could have happened at many points, but best of all could have been after the death of his father. But nope, cry baby bitch boy Anduin is all we get. I want there to be at least one alliance leader that I can say is awesome. Then again, horde side we've only got Sylvanas left.

He's like the best written character in the whole Warcraft franchise

[Scottyjscizzle]

Holy guy going evil is not interesting, it's cliched.

Was thinking the same, enjoyed him using the hammer of light in his comic so much more than typical shadow evil I'm so evil and psycho now rawr.

[Steampunkette]

He's like the best written character in the whole Warcraft franchise

Best written male character, definitely.

I'd argue Jaina is better written. Though it might just be that she's got a longer history.