Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[breadisfunny]

So don't play those games. That's the only way to fix EA's crap. Regulating them just brings the government into it, and you don't really want that. Bringing the government in isn't going to make the games any better anyway. Especially EA's games. Their management is just crap.

Again, if you can't control yourself and buy (and play) those games, that's on you or whoever can't control themselves. I've played a zillion games over the last 10-15 years with lootboxes, and it's always my choice to buy lootboxes or keys, or not.

so your entire argument boils down to laisse faiirre style capitalism and not caring about anyone who gets hurt in the process? using your logic we should go back to letting cigarette companies advertise to children because hey it's their choice to smoke.

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So deal with the people who can't control themselves. That's not my problem, or yours. That's on them. There are mechanisms in place to help them.

Let normal people make their own choices, bad or good, and live with them. Don't need government in this any deeper than they already are. I trust them even less than the game companies, even EA.

yes it is your problem when the person who can't control his spending gets kicked out of his apartment and resorts to robbing you for more money to fund his gambling addiction.

[Deleted]

Is buying a kinder egg gambling?

No because you buy the egg to eat it, not to get the toy, and the toy you get will always be around the same value since plastic is measured by weight.

Now if the toy would vary in weight and so would the chocolate egg, it would be seen as gambling as you aren't guaranteed to get the same consumption for the same price and getting the biggest chocolate egg would be worth more than the smallest whilst at the same price point. Thus you essentially gamble to get more.

The Belgian law is very specific in this, as soon as there's a variable return for the money you invested in it, it's essentially gambling, and not to mention, we are so far down the list when it comes to rankings regarding gambling problems/participation/addictions that it's worth it.

Then again the Overwatch complaint won't go far, they have no ground to build a case upon.

[Keile]

So don't play those games. That's the only way to fix EA's crap. Regulating them just brings the government into it, and you don't really want that. Bringing the government in isn't going to make the games any better anyway. Especially EA's games. Their management is just crap.

Again, if you can't control yourself and buy (and play) those games, that's on you or whoever can't control themselves. I've played a zillion games over the last 10-15 years with lootboxes, and it's always my choice to buy lootboxes or keys, or not.

But if it is GAMBLING it should be regulated just like all other forms of gambling currently are. And the more people buy into it, the more people like you try to defend them...the worse it is going to get. It's all downhill from here, and the hill is LITTERED with lootbox shaped piles of shit.

[Deleted]

So deal with the people who can't control themselves. That's not my problem, or yours. That's on them. There are mechanisms in place to help them.

Let normal people make their own choices, bad or good, and live with them. Don't need government in this any deeper than they already are. I trust them even less than the game companies, even EA.

No that's our problem. Whenever a gambler in Belgium gets too much debt, can't pay it off, they lose their properties, get placed into a system for debt restructuring and housing for those that own nothing, which is paid directly by the tax payers. Since 2001 they started providing licenses, which result into that money being used to help those people, so instead of us paying, it's the licensee that subsidizes the entire system instead.

Mind you since those changes we went from one of the highest gambling debt countries in Europe to outside the top 20 (now).

I trust our government, they protect the citizens a lot.

[Yunru]

so your entire argument boils down to laisse faiirre style capitalism and not caring about anyone who gets hurt in the process? using your logic we should go back to letting cigarette companies advertise to children because hey it's their choice to smoke.

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yes it is your problem when the person who can't control his spending gets kicked out of his apartment and resorts to robbing you for more money to fund his gambling addiction.

Or more simple, kids stealing credit cards from parents to look cool for friends in school.

[Dhrizzle]

No because you buy the egg to eat it, not to get the toy, and the toy you get will always be around the same value since plastic is measured by weight.

Now if the toy would vary in weight and so would the chocolate egg, it would be seen as gambling as you aren't guaranteed to get the same consumption for the same price and getting the biggest chocolate egg would be worth more than the smallest whilst at the same price point. Thus you essentially gamble to get more.

The Belgian law is very specific in this, as soon as there's a variable return for the money you invested in it, it's essentially gambling, and not to mention, we are so far down the list when it comes to rankings regarding gambling problems/participation/addictions that it's worth it.

Then again the Overwatch complaint won't go far, they have no ground to build a case upon.

How would that work in video games where, assuming items are bound to an account, every item is intrinsically worthless. Also what about TCGs like Magic the Gathering, does the law take into account 3rd-party markets like e-bay where consumers can easily convert items into cash?

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But if it is GAMBLING it should be regulated just like all other forms of gambling currently are. And the more people buy into it, the more people like you try to defend them...the worse it is going to get. It's all downhill from here, and the hill is LITTERED with lootbox shaped piles of shit.

And if it isn't GAMBLING then it would probably be wiser to look into other ways of showing that loot-boxes can be harmful to vulnerable people or the easily influenced, you'd either have to show some sort of causal link between people opening loot boxes and them later developing gambling addictions or show that children are being put at risk and aim for some sort of change in the PEGI ratings. Essentially you're in the same position as people in the 90s trying to show that simulated violence in video games was harmful and could lead to violence in the real world.

Or more simple, kids stealing credit cards from parents to look cool for friends in school.

If a kid is going to steal from their parents they'd likely do so with or without the influence of video games, and parents who raise an untrustworthy kid should know to keep their valuables and currency away from them.

[NuLogic]

How are loot boxes not gambling? You risk money for randomness. If a slot machine gave you a piece of shit every time would it be okay?

[Dhrizzle]

How are loot boxes not gambling? You risk money for randomness. If a slot machine gave you a piece of shit every time would it be okay?

Under UK law it's gambling if you can win either money or an item that can be readily converted to money. Under Belgian law (according to an earlier poster) it's gambling if you can win items of varying values (possibly doesn't apply to video game items as they are all intrinsically worthless.)

[Kaleredar]

It honestly seems to me like most of the 'loot-box-is-gambling' crowd seem to think this is how everyone else who plays the game besides them behaves. Everyone else is stupid and they're the only ones smart enough to not buy loot boxes, because they know what Blizzard's up to!

I don't buy lootboxes, but I don't care if people do... and, as I said, I certainly don't view buying them as "gambling."

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How are loot boxes not gambling? You risk money for randomness. If a slot machine gave you a piece of shit every time would it be okay?

Because you can't ever win anything worth monetary value?

Gambling is a pretty straightforward "put money in for hopes to get money out." You aren't getting any money out of loot boxes, because the contents inside have no value.

[Dhrizzle]

I don't buy lootboxes, but I don't care if people do... and, as I said, I certainly don't view buying them as "gambling."

I agree they probably shouldn't fall under gambling laws (depending on how individual nations define "gambling") but it's certainly worth looking into how they may be overly coercive (in p2w type situations) in ways that go against consumer protection laws, or how the reward feedback loop may be harmful to people susceptible to such things, or whether there is a link between people using the loot boxes and later having problems with gambling addictions. Even if the law has no say on the matter it's something that should be investigated by self-regulating bodies like PEGI and ESRB.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

ESRB already said no, I doubt they'll change tune just because of others.

Probably already answered but their European counterpart, PEGI, has essentially left it in the hands of a national gambling commission which makes me wonder how much weight the ESRB really holds on such a matter. I suspect that if a gambling commission came out and called it as much in the US then the ESRB would be hot on their heels to push for industry-wide changes since that would be pretty damning counter-punch to their stance.

I mean, I think that's how it would happen? In any case I'm perfectly fine with seeing this new age of premium, nickle and dime shell gaming bullshit burn to the ground.

[Radaney]

Its not sorta gambling its 100% gambling.

gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1.
play games of chance for money; bet.
"she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"
synonyms: bet, place/lay a bet on something, stake money on something, back the horses, game; informalplay the ponies
"he started to gamble more often"
2.
take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
"the British could only gamble that something w

This is actually why it's not gambling. Opening lootboxes isn't a risky action, you don't lose anything.

[Kaleredar]

I agree they probably shouldn't fall under gambling laws (depending on how individual nations define "gambling") but it's certainly worth looking into how they may be overly coercive (in p2w type situations) in ways that go against consumer protection laws, or how the reward feedback loop may be harmful to people susceptible to such things, or whether there is a link between people using the loot boxes and later having problems with gambling addictions. Even if the law has no say on the matter it's something that should be investigated by self-regulating bodies like PEGI and ESRB.

There's even less of a case of "pay to win," seeing as absolutely nothing you get out of a box can help you better your performance.

[Jtbrig7390]

This is actually why it's not gambling. Opening lootboxes isn't a risky action, you don't lose anything.

Besides the $$$$ you spent to buy them, Or do you get that back?

[jn27]

What you get out of those boxes has no value outside of the game (or in the case of valve games, outside of steam). You may put money into the game, but there is no gamble that money will come out.

[Jtbrig7390]

What you get out of those boxes has no value outside of the game (or in the case of valve games, outside of steam). You may put money into the game, but there is no gamble that money will come out.

You can gamble without the reward being money...

Seems that is a concept that is hard for many to understand.

[jn27]

You can gamble without the reward being money...
Seems that is a concept that is hard for many to understand.

Let me know when the law agrees with that statement.

[dejec1989]

Let me know when the law agrees with that statement.

it's the addiction of gambling with out the reward, pretty shitty, also if the law makers get their thumbs out their asses it will be sooner rather than later, if it's getting to the point were games are being investigated then enough people have make a stink about it and it will get changed, just a matter of time.

[Jtbrig7390]

Let me know when the law agrees with that statement.

Give it time because its slowly changing. Kinda the point of this thread that some government's are starting to step in.

Its no longer a If but When will the laws be changed.

[Noxina]

If lootboxes are gambling, shouldn't killing a boss in WoW be the same? You kill the boss and hope your item drop, in most cases it doesn't. Same as with lootboxes, you level up or w/e gives a lootbox, you open it and hope you get the item you want, but you don't.