Survival Needs to Stay and be Fixed

[mber341]

yea for some reason no current SV hunter understands this.

I understand, i just don't care. I used to main Enhancement but i hate what they've done to the spec. So i can relate to losing a beloved spec. I think a lot of people who love the new changes never played the old ones or not very much at the very least. Never really tried a hunter until SV went melee.

My biggest gripe with the spec is that they made Exp Trap a targetting reticle ability. I LOVED when you just tossed it out in front of yourself. Having to deal with only one reticle ability was enough (caltrops).

[Bepples]

I understand, i just don't care. I used to main Enhancement but i hate what they've done to the spec. So i can relate to losing a beloved spec.

No you can't. Survival's changes were on a different league to every other spec change. Yes, there have been other drastic, disliked spec changes. That is not equivalent to flat out losing the whole spec in the nature of the Survival remake. Extent matters.

[Devilyaki]

I agree with some of the above posts, to make it great again, make it range. You can go play classic if you want to be “ melee hunter” then. You will soon see it was never a thing and adding it only made the class broken.

[Super Kami Dende]

Melee Surv is fun. It's just really easy to get fucked by procs.

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No you can't. Survival's changes were on a different league to every other spec change. Yes, there have been other drastic, disliked spec changes. That is not equivalent to flat out losing the whole spec in the nature of the Survival remake. Extent matters.

Not the first time it's happened to survival. The Survival people are asking for back was a remake on the older Survival.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Going a bit out of the box, I think I'd like the idea of Survival becoming a tank spec, which yeah, it's very unlikely, but as a class concept the idea of a survivalist adapting to a situation, with their pet helping them keep foes in check could work.

It would be very challenging to make a tank spec with a pet, but in terms of class fantasy is very unique.

[Super Kami Dende]

What survival needs imo is to have an easier playstyle possible with the ability to opt in the more complex playstyle for a small dps gain; something like what feral has after the talent changes.

Even something like "Flanking strike always gives a MB proc, but Mongoose bite only goes to 5 stacks." or something reliability at the cost of damage.

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Going a bit out of the box, I think I'd like the idea of Survival becoming a tank spec, which yeah, it's very unlikely, but as a class concept the idea of a survivalist adapting to a situation, with their pet helping them keep foes in check could work.

It would be very challenging to make a tank spec with a pet, but in terms of class fantasy is very unique.

you could always just make the pet be the damage migitation. So instead of like Shield wall and Survival instincts, have the pet jump to its master and take X amount of Attacks for Y secs. or block a percentage of damage. Don't add the stam bonus other tanks get, and have your pet and you have a shared Health bar. Make the Class fantasy around being spirit bonded.

I'd actually love the shit out of that, since I played a Tanky Beastmaster in RIFT and it was fun as fuck.

[lazypeon100]

I'm saying get rid of the pet (with the lone wolf talent), take out some of the hits with the weapon and add more traps to the hunter. I don't want a warrior, i just want a SURVIVAL hunter, a guy who is a survival by himself.

If you remove the ranged and the pets, what exactly makes it a hunter any more?

Lone Wolf for current survival amounts to being a warrior with a slightly different flavor.

[Bepples]

ot the first time it's happened to survival. The Survival people are asking for back was a remake on the older Survival.

The 1.7 remake really pales in comparison. You exchanged Lacerate for Wyvern Sting, and a bunch of passive talent effects changed. Otherwise, the core toolkit was the same. Even before 1.7 Survival had the same ranged toolkit the other specs had. Your reply relies on misunderstanding on the basic function of specs back in Vanilla and you are projecting the current standard and function of specs back into the past.

[Bepples]

sure tis a bigger chance but you can say any change to any spec was for a different audience. i didn't want combo points on my paladin so that was for a different audience. i didn't want sub to have like 4 ability and a change to shadow dance so that was for a different audience. i did want warlocks to drop meta and have more of a focus on demons so that was for a different audience.

almost any big class change can change the audience of that class this is no different.

More false equivalency. None of those class changes are remotely to the same degree as the Survival change, and in all of those examples the specs still have the same basic role as they did before. With Survival, you stopped being a Ranged DPS and started being a melee DPS. It's on a whole different leve. It's of no surprise to me that people in favour of melee SV resort to such dishonest tactics to deflect blame from this clusterfuck.

[Ashmiel]

More false equivalency. None of those class changes are remotely to the same degree as the Survival change, and in all of those examples the specs still have the same basic role as they did before. With Survival, you stopped being a Ranged DPS and started being a melee DPS. It's on a whole different leve. It's of no surprise to me that people in favour of melee SV resort to such dishonest tactics to deflect blame from this clusterfuck.

I honestly think you should try to stop being such a sad, hateful person and be thankful that the hunter class finally got some semblance of diversity.

[Bepples]

I honestly think you should try to stop being such a sad, hateful person and be thankful that the hunter class finally got some semblance of diversity.

Why should I be thankful that my favourite spec gets deleted? I don't give a flying fuck about so-called diversity if that was the cost. Don't tell me how to feel.

Plus, Hunters had diversity before 7.0. The denial of that is just post-Legion propaganda. If they felt the specs were too similar, there were plenty of easier and more effective options which preserved all the playstyles of the class people liked. Survival going melee is a decision purely rooted melee favouritism, not in a pursuit to better the class for Hunters.

[Ashmiel]

Why should I be thankful that my favourite spec gets deleted? I don't give a flying fuck about so-called diversity if that was the cost. Don't tell me how to feel.

Plus, Hunters had diversity before 7.0. The denial of that is just post-Legion propaganda. If they felt the specs were too similar, there were plenty of easier and more effective options which preserved all the playstyles of the class people liked. Survival going melee is a decision purely rooted melee favouritism, not in a pursuit to better the class for Hunters.

Well, all 3 ranged hunter specs have been fairly shit to play since the tail end of TBC in my opinion. Now, finally, they got a fun spec and I can happily main hunter again after all these years.

[Bepples]

Well, all 3 ranged hunter specs have been fairly shit to play since the tail end of TBC in my opinion. Now, finally, they got a fun spec and I can happily main hunter again after all these years.

Lmao. Never mind the fact that Hunters had largely the same playstyle for the entirety of BC so being terrible "since the tail end of BC" doesn't make any sense; I'll assume you meant WotLK. So, apparently, Hunters started being terrible when each spec actually gained a unique playstyle and toolkit after an expansion of nothing but Steady Shot spam, and they only got more terrible after they gained numerous playstyle improvements and revisions along with expanded skill sets, leading to more and more people picking up the class making it the most popular class for years at a time in the period between WotLK and Legion. Or, alternatively, your opinion of Hunters just might be out of touch with everyone else. I wonder which seems more likely.

[Ashmiel]

Lmao. Never mind the fact that Hunters had largely the same playstyle for the entirety of BC so being terrible "since the tail end of BC" doesn't make any sense; I'll assume you meant WotLK. So, apparently, Hunters started being terrible when each spec actually gained a unique playstyle and toolkit after an expansion of nothing but Steady Shot spam, and they only got more terrible after they gained numerous playstyle improvements and revisions along with expanded skill sets, leading to more and more people picking up the class making it the most popular class for years at a time in the period between WotLK and Legion. Or, alternatively, your opinion of Hunters just might be out of touch with everyone else. I wonder which seems more likely.

No, I mean the end of TBC when they added it so you could move and autoshoot at the same time. Before that you had to use stutterstepping if you wanted to do good dps. At least that took some sort of skill to pull off compared to how hunters have been since then for the most part. And I'm sorry you seem to have no idea about how hunters were back then judging by your answer.

[Deleted]

If you remove the ranged and the pets, what exactly makes it a hunter any more?

Lone Wolf for current survival amounts to being a warrior with a slightly different flavor.

I think u people don't undertand me or something. Maybe is my bad english cause it's not my language, in that case, sorry.

What i said, it's to give the Lone Wolf talent to the Survival Hunter, and IF U TAKE THAT TALENT (or not, your choice) you have 2 or 3 attacks different than the Survival with the pet (strikes with the pet for example). And give the Survival Hunter more traps, but being a melee class. Not a Warrior, a Survival Hunter without the pet with the lone wolf talent, and have 3 or 4 more different traps.

[Bepples]

No, I mean the end of TBC when they added it so you could move and autoshoot at the same time. Before that you had to use stutterstepping if you wanted to do good dps. At least that took some sort of skill to pull off compared to how hunters have been since then for the most part. And I'm sorry you seem to have no idea about how hunters were back then judging by your answer.

Wrong answer, try again. Mobile Auto-shot was patch 4.0.6: Cataclysm. You weren't even close. And honestly, that was an extremely welcome change. Melee classes didn't need to stutterstep: why should Hunters? Having full mobility is awesome and unique. You could argue that it was overpowered, but we always traded raw damage for mobility. Having to stutterstep just made the class feel restrictive and counter-intuitive and removing it was great. You can have skillcaps from an in-depth priority and cooldown system rather than such obsolete and bizarre mechanics as the old Auto-Shot and it is better that way.

And you claim I have no idea? Laughable. All 3 specs had Steady Shot/Auto-Shot weaving as their focus in PvE back then. You can still look at patch 2.x guides for private servers and see that. You people always try to argue that the specs were homogenised later on but that's completely backwards: they were mostly the same in Vanilla and BC and they did nothing but diverge after that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

More false equivalency. None of those class changes are remotely to the same degree as the Survival change, and in all of those examples the specs still have the same basic role as they did before. With Survival, you stopped being a Ranged DPS and started being a melee DPS. It's on a whole different leve. It's of no surprise to me that people in favour of melee SV resort to such dishonest tactics to deflect blame from this clusterfuck.

What does it matter if the change was bigger if your point is the audience changed, all of thoses changes made me drop the class as I no longer enjoyed it and I was no longer the right audience for it, just as you dropped survival as you no longer enjoyed it and you were no longer the right adudience for it.

[Ashmiel]

Wrong answer, try again. Mobile Auto-shot was patch 4.0.6: Cataclysm. You weren't even close. And honestly, that was an extremely welcome change. Melee classes didn't need to stutterstep: why should Hunters? Having full mobility is awesome and unique. You could argue that it was overpowered, but we always traded raw damage for mobility. Having to stutterstep just made the class feel restrictive and counter-intuitive and removing it was great. You can have skillcaps from an in-depth priority and cooldown system rather than such obsolete and bizarre mechanics as the old Auto-Shot and it is better that way.

And you claim I have no idea? Laughable. All 3 specs had Steady Shot/Auto-Shot weaving as their focus in PvE back then. You can still look at patch 2.x guides for private servers and see that. You people always try to argue that the specs were homogenised later on but that's completely backwards: they were mostly the same in Vanilla and BC and they did nothing but diverge after that.

Sorry, but no. It was the reason I quit my hunter as a main after TBC.
Maybe you should find something better to do with your time if it affects you this much though.
For me personally, I couldn't care less if it's melee or ranged as long as it's fun. And personally find current SV really fun. Kinda clunky in some aspects, sure, but I'm really having a blast. If they made SV ranged and just as fun, that would have been quite alright with me. DPS is DPS.

Edit : You might be right about the autoshot thing actually. Getting old I guess. There was some thing they added in the last patch in TBC I really hated though. But if it wasn't stutterstep stuff, then I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

edit 2 : I never said it was more homogenized. I'm one of those people that prefer current wow over vanilla. By a huge margin too.
Back then I was furious over whatever change they did, but by now, I just don't really care. I keep a roster of every single class at max level, so if I find one boring, then off I go to something else more fun.

I realize there is no point trying to argue with you though. I just don't get why you come into every single SV thread with your hate. SV melee seems to be here to stay and there is nothing you can do about it. Go do something productive.

[lazypeon100]

I think u people don't undertand me or something. Maybe is my bad english cause it's not my language, in that case, sorry.

What i said, it's to give the Lone Wolf talent to the Survival Hunter, and IF U TAKE THAT TALENT (or not, your choice) you have 2 or 3 attacks different than the Survival with the pet (strikes with the pet for example). And give the Survival Hunter more traps, but being a melee class. Not a Warrior, a Survival Hunter without the pet with the lone wolf talent, and have 3 or 4 more different traps.

I understood you. It's a thematic issue is the problem. Traps aren't enough to really sperate one class from another (they help, don't get me wrong) but from a thematic stand point, what seperates a lonewolf SV hunter from a warrior?

[Deleted]

I understood you. It's a thematic issue is the problem. Traps aren't enough to really sperate one class from another (they help, don't get me wrong) but from a thematic stand point, what seperates a lonewolf SV hunter from a warrior?

The traps is the main difference, not only from warriors but from other hunters as well. If u make cool and new traps (or old design, like a good snakes trap) that can have this class a unique flavor, that can be great and separate him from warriors as you say.

Also, even if u take the pet to this hunter of today...why do u think it's a warrior?