So, can we call Legion a bust for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

[Demsi]

If mana is irrelevant why even have it at this point?

As far as holy power goes, any system that's better is welcomed tbh

[Deleted]

Holy Power is bs in its current form. It should act like a buff mechanic instead of being a cheap combo system. We already have mana, so this should be the default resource.

Dont try to sound to be smart/make sense you are going to make the devs cry for all you know every talent row might just be the same talent seeing as it will upset them so much they will make a talent that is so much in the class "fantasy" it will out do equality(eye for an eye) careful dont upset these devs it leads to even dumber things.

[QTface]

I don't mind holy power. Its the judgement debuff system I hate. It sucks when a mod dies and you are at full HP and like 5 seconds left of judgement cd.

[Reith]

I played through WotLK, guys. Unfortunately for you, I have no nostalgia glasses about it. Holy Power works well enough as a resource. Holy Power is not the problem here. It's many other things, like not having a DOT that isn't an AOE ability, not having the movement options, speed as an rng tertiary stat (wtf were they thinking), having many of our abilities straight-up removed, nerfed, moved to prot/holy and replaced by inferior versions, many baseline abilities becoming talents, the current iteration of mastery and judgment (and how judgment was raped every way possible) and not many real choices in talents gameplay-wise.

[Elkas]

Holy power is not Ret's major flaw. The single major flaw that has been plaguing Ret the past few expansions, has been Avenging Wrath. Its past few incarnations have been both too powerful and baseline for all Retribution paladins. If you want to break out of the 30 second wonder window, and have different meaningful gameplay, take away our wings.

The judgement debuff was a (poor) attempt to tone down Ret's burst and allow for more consistent DPS (at least, according to Blizzard themselves), but its not the source of most of our issues. Rather, it is just another symptom of the actual underlying problem (Avenging Wrath).

[Grogplus]

Holy power is not a bad thing but it's not a good thing either, it's something that you need to "manage" (which is better than wrath faceroll playstyle) but it's not a fun system. Regarding Avenging Wrath: I absolutely don't buy this idea that rets are impossible to balance/make cool outside of wings, I mean rets aren't the only once who got some major burst cooldown and on top of that it got buffed by almost 200%

[Reith]

Holy power is not Ret's major flaw. The single major flaw that has been plaguing Ret the past few expansions, has been Avenging Wrath. Its past few incarnations have been both too powerful and baseline for all Retribution paladins. If you want to break out of the 30 second wonder window, and have different meaningful gameplay, take away our wings.

The judgement debuff was a (poor) attempt to tone down Ret's burst and allow for more consistent DPS (at least, according to Blizzard themselves), but its not the source of most of our issues. Rather, it is just another symptom of the actual underlying problem (Avenging Wrath).

It's really not. Avenging Wrath was never as good (or as important) as it is today. We had Guardian and Holy Avenger/Divine Purpose to play around with as well, and AW was only 20% increased damage for 20 seconds. AW (and by extension, Crusade) has never been better or more relevant for Ret than Legion. No more Holy Avenger, no more Guardian. They took too many things away.

[Sigxy]

After reading some posts way earlier regarding Divine Steed or that leap thing...

What would people think of a 3 second 'Charge forward' (30 second cooldown), must move forward and possibly can change direction, can -NOT- be CC'd and breaks all movement effects - as well as that you have a lance and when you run over someone they get shoved back a bit and stunned? '.'

[Flarelaine]

A couple questions for you guys.

1.) Do you like the Holy Power system for Rets?

2.) If not, what kind of replacement system would you like to see?

I'm entirely fine with it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

After reading some posts way earlier regarding Divine Steed or that leap thing...

What would people think of a 3 second 'Charge forward' (30 second cooldown), must move forward and possibly can change direction, can -NOT- be CC'd and breaks all movement effects - as well as that you have a lance and when you run over someone they get shoved back a bit and stunned? '.'

Not with a 30 sec cd.
20, tops. Tops.

[Sigxy]

Not with a 30 sec cd.
20, tops. Tops.

Wouldn't it be an issue with Hammer of Justice? THEN AGAIN, actually, since you're forced to move forward (and turn at limited speed), it should be a good chaser ability, rather than just CC since you'd risk running off.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Wouldn't it be an issue with Hammer of Justice?

Does charge have any problems with Storm Bolt?
Does Fel Rush have any problems with Banish/Chaosnova(or whatever its called the aoe stun dh have)?
A melee spec with his only means to close the gap on a such a lengthy cd is no melee spec.

THEN AGAIN, actually, since you're forced to move forward (and turn at limited speed), it should be a good chaser ability, rather than just CC since you'd risk running off.

Turn at limited speed?
What?
Why?
Why would you impose limitations and handicaps on an already weak ability?

For balance?
Do you , right now, of sound mind and body, think that a plain and carboncopied Charge would make Retribution Paladins imbalanced?

[Sosua]

Ret has:

1. Plate armor (best of all classes)
2. Instant heal for FULL health
3. Short cast heals
4. A ranged attack
5. Melee attacks with decent dmg
6. AoE ability
7. A movement enhancement ability
8. An Anti movement ability for others (A slow)
9. A stun
10. A disorient
11. Ability to get health back on attack
12. Can instantly stop ALL dmg

They've got a massive toolkit, I love when people cry they don't do enough <fill in the blank here>...

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ret has:

1. Plate armor (best of all classes)
2. Instant heal for FULL health
3. Short cast heals
4. A ranged attack
5. Melee attacks with decent dmg
6. AoE ability
7. A movement enhancement ability
8. An Anti movement ability for others (A slow)
9. A stun
10. A disorient
11. Ability to get health back on attack
12. Can instantly stop ALL dmg

They've got a massive toolkit, I love when people cry they don't do enough <fill in the blank here>...

Try Again Bragg.

[Sigxy]

Does charge have any problems with Storm Bolt?
Does Fel Rush have any problems with Banish/Chaosnova(or whatever its called the aoe stun dh have)?
A melee spec with his only means to close the gap on a such a lengthy cd is no melee spec.


Turn at limited speed?
What?
Why?
Why would you impose limitations and handicaps on an already weak ability?

For balance?
Do you , right now, of sound mind and body, think that a plain and carboncopied Charge would make Retribution Paladins imbalanced?

Those guys just feel too broken though. :< I just prefer the 'class fantasy' idea of Retribution hunting down the ones who have done wrong, and if they try to escape, the paladin -should- prove that such a thing will not happen. Given how it breaks CC and you'll be immune to it (unlike the steed), and it stuns targets and possibly even damages, it would be some kind of balance.

As for a charge being unblanaced: no. But Blizzard clearly doesn't like that idea so was thinking of something unique that hopefully could work. Just the joys of making up abilities!

[Morally Grey Storm]

Those guys just feel too broken though. :< I just prefer the 'class fantasy' idea of Retribution hunting down the ones who have done wrong, and if they try to escape, the paladin -should- prove that such a thing will not happen. Given how it breaks CC and you'll be immune to it (unlike the steed), and it stuns targets and possibly even damages, it would be some kind of balance.

As for a charge being unblanaced: no. But Blizzard clearly doesn't like that idea so was thinking of something unique that hopefully could work. Just the joys of making up abilities!

Good for you to find joy, and I have nothing against it.
But this "limited turn speed" is nothing else but a self-imposed limatation and a handicap. Don't lie to yourself, to me, and anyone reading this thread.

Stop thinking with limitations in mind.
Or do you want AW forebearance to make a comeback?
That's a decent handicap alright.
After all, we are well-known(no) as the kings of burst and PvP.

[EternalBany]

it really is heartbreaking
i dont like combo points
i dont like colossus smash

I fear they wont change it much for BFA, i just wanted a smooth WOTLK gameplay

[Sigxy]

Good for you to find joy, and I have nothing against it.
But this "limited turn speed" is nothing else but a self-imposed limatation and a handicap. Don't lie to yourself, to me, and anyone reading this thread.

Stop thinking with limitations in mind.
Or do you want AW forebearance to make a comeback?
That's a decent handicap alright.
After all, we are well-known(no) as the kings of burst and PvP.

I do think some limitations can be good though to make it seem more realistic of having some slight change of being available. Otherwise it ends up TOO broken and if you can pretty much sprint every 20 second, I do actually think that'd be a bit much if it had full freedom, including the 'stun whoever you run over'. And yes, I'm a horrible person for saying this probably - but I'd imagine that since it would be having a lance during it's duration, it would make sense to have a forward movement.

Overall though I would prefer not having this either and just get a much better version of Pursuit of Justice. ;_:

it really is heartbreaking
i dont like combo points
i dont like colossus smash

I fear they wont change it much for BFA, i just wanted a smooth WOTLK gameplay

Ditto... :<

[killwithpwr]

Ret has:

1. Plate armor (best of all classes)
2. Instant heal for FULL health
3. Short cast heals
4. A ranged attack
5. Melee attacks with decent dmg
6. AoE ability
7. A movement enhancement ability
8. An Anti movement ability for others (A slow)
9. A stun
10. A disorient
11. Ability to get health back on attack
12. Can instantly stop ALL dmg

They've got a massive toolkit, I love when people cry they don't do enough <fill in the blank here>...

For real?

1. Armor barely has an effect on any class.
2. 10 minute CD.
3. Maximum of 5-6 heals that will not save you in any situation.
4. A SINGLE ranged attack... And it generates our most precious debuff so cant be used all the time.
5. Every Melee has melee attacks with more than decent damage.
6. No spec in the game (afaik) has no AoE abilities (maybe Feral? I never played one)
7. 3 second ability on a relatively high CD.
8. A slow ability is not aplicable in PvE and not going to help against ranged in PvP.
9. Every spec afaik has some sort of a stun.
10. A talented disorient, for 2 seconds... Works better as an interrupt, again, not very usefull in PvE.
11. Only ability we have that might be actually usefull in PvP, not that usefull in PvE and is dependant on our main resource.
12. Once every 5 minutes. Or 4 minutes if you dont mind CD of movement speed increase being longer...

How are Rets special again?

[Morally Grey Storm]

such an obvious bait
why not bite
right?