people portray vanilla as being super hard

[skannerz22]

i played runescape for 3 years
you have no idea what the meaning of grinding truely is untill you played their classic

here is my character
https://apps.runescape.com/runemetri...yer/skannerz22

my character is so old that it doesn't even level up in the conventional sense anymore

just imagine vanilla wow with a 0.3x exp modifier on everything
there are no classes
you rely on your proffesions for everything
every piece of content in the game required a skill level

it's just funny
i see all these vanilla supporters being stuck in nostalgia saying how hard vanilla was compared to current wow
and here i am remembering how much harder runescape was compared to wow

and in vanilla people would pick premade specs and classes and do everything the same as everyone else with a bunch of addons to try and make the game even easier

i doubt wow classic WITH NO CHANGES will be as hard as people remember it to be

i started playing wow because you could make a campfire without it requiring a skill level
you could fish nearly anywhere without it requiring such a high skill level
you could make some current character level food without having to grind for months just to be able to cook the food without needing to level up 3 different skills just to eat it or even better.. you could just buy your food from a vendor in wow *drools*

i found vanilla wow much much more easier/faster to do things than runescape back in my day

[Deleted]

i played runescape for 3 years
you have no idea what the meaning of grinding truely is untill you played their classic

here is my character
https://apps.runescape.com/runemetri...yer/skannerz22

my character is so old that it doesn't even level up in the conventional sense anymore

just imagine vanilla wow with a 0.3x exp modifier on everything
there are no classes
you rely on your proffesions for everything

it's just funny
i see all these vanilla supporters being stuck in nostalgia saying how hard vanilla was compared to current wow
and here i am remembering how much harder runescape was compared to wow

and in vanilla people would pick premade specs and classes and do everything the same as everyone else with a bunch of addons to try and make the game even easier

i doubt wow classic WITH NO CHANGES will be as hard as people remember it to be

Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing 'Hallelujah.'

Monty Python were playing the 'back in my day' game 50 years ago, and theirs was better.

[skannerz22]

Monty Python were playing the 'back in my day' game 50 years ago, and theirs was better.

runescape didn't even have quests back in the day
and due to this routine of grinding on mobs with no quests

i played vanilla wow the same way only leveling up with mobs and rarely doing any quests

[Rupenbritz]

2010 acc portrayed as old, pls m8 made my acc back in 04

[Eazy]

There's a difference between hard and boring(something that takes too long).

[Akka]

Nobody says Vanilla was super hard.
What's said is that everything save for bleeding edge raiding was much harder in Vanilla than in current WoW.

The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".
Vanilla was pleasantly and moderately challenging for most of the content, and quite challenging for the high-end raids. Contrast with Legion which is 95% faceroll, 4% challenging and 1 % ultra-hard.

[Ringthane]

No, they don't. Vanilla was never super hard. What it was was more situationally aware. You couldn't just pop on down to the town outside the Deadmines (Moonbrook?), or the Charred Vale, and just slam your way through mobs. The Defias spellcasters would own you, and the sheer density of mobs in the Vale made it very difficult to maneuver and position multiple mobs. Also, we didn't have all the extra control tools and "oh crap" buttons we have today - especially since you didn't get certain skills until you paid for them at the trainer (which means that if you didn't visit the trainer when you leveled up, you could be using old, less powerful ranks). And talents didn't have the effects they do now - most were "add one percent to crit", or "returns one (rage, mana, whatever) every ten seconds".

That's why Vanilla was harder. Just not super hard. You just had to be smarter about how you moved, how you fought, and you couldn't just steamroll your way through most areas.

[Hitei]

Nobody says Vanilla was super hard.
What's said is that everything save for bleeding edge raiding was much harder in Vanilla than in current WoW.

The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".
Vanilla was pleasantly and moderately challenging for most of the content, and quite challenging for the high-end raids. Contrast with Legion which is 95% faceroll, 4% challenging and 1 % ultra-hard.

Vanilla was more time consuming than current, not harder.

[Wries]

Vanilla WoW was seen as the casual MMO back when it was relevant. I guess you could argue that Blizzard hit the sweet spot in terms of difficulty* and that they sooner lost that sweet spot in order to try to cater to potential new customers.

*(Difficulty to progress, not to play. Vanilla mechanics are not hard)

[Jngizu]

Nobody says Vanilla was super hard.
What's said is that everything save for bleeding edge raiding was much harder in Vanilla than in current WoW.

The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".
Vanilla was pleasantly and moderately challenging for most of the content, and quite challenging for the high-end raids. Contrast with Legion which is 95% faceroll, 4% challenging and 1 % ultra-hard.

Was it really harder, or just took more time though? I mean, I guess my definition of hard is things that are seriously challenging. Vanilla wasn't that. You just had to kill every mob 1 by 1 because you didn't do enough damage and they did too much. There was no real counterplay to it. Which meant you had to regen more often, which meant, leveling was slower. But it wasn't particularly hard or challenging.

Suramar was the same earlier on if you had 0 gear. Some areas were really tough, because you were fighting elite mobs and you had to be careful. But was it hard? Not really. Not sure I'm articulating my point properly, but hopefully, you get what I mean.

Vanilla was more time consuming than current, not harder.

Damn, you said exactly what I wanted to say in only one sentence, lol.

[Deleted]

Nobody says Vanilla was super hard.
What's said is that everything save for bleeding edge raiding was much harder in Vanilla than in current WoW.

The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".
Vanilla was pleasantly and moderately challenging for most of the content, and quite challenging for the high-end raids. Contrast with Legion which is 95% faceroll, 4% challenging and 1 % ultra-hard.

What was "harder than current"? Everything took way more time, yes. But harder... how? Rotations surely weren't (often quite the opposite). Leveling surely wasn't (it was just slower, but pulling 1-2 mobs at a time is hardly the height of skill... it literally took me five minutes as a noob to learn how much I can take at once, and then it was just a matter of repeating it a million times). Dungeons? Well, only if you play the retarded "you can run every dungeon on the lowest difficulty now" card, ignoring the fact that you gain jack shit for progression for it and that normally you want to run it on M+ with varying amounts of added challenge.

One thing that was truly and actually better in my opinion was crafting, because it wasn't streamlined like it is now - we had fucktons of strange and weird mats that we often didn't know what to do with, there were rare recipe drops and the like. This is one thing that was, I'd say, tangibly better and more engaging. But the rest? If you were savvy it was smooth sailing, the truth of the matter though is that most of us weren't close to being savvy. So we stumbled across the game, wide-eyed and awed by it.

[swunk]

Does making a game really hard make it a good game or? Is it hard to create a hard game? I mean blizz could just boost every mob and bosses abilities/hp x100 like in a single patch, even set professions to cap at a billion on top and would not even sweat at doing that.
What is this all about? :P

[Akka]

Vanilla was more time consuming than current, not harder.

I think I'll make this into a macro due to the amount of idiots who spam the same BS constantly :

No, it's more the moving goalpost of the anti-Vanilla crowd which redefines what "difficulty" means on the fly so to exclude whatever was in Vanilla. You can sum up 90 % of their argument with "X isn't making the game more difficult, just more tedious". Replace "X" with whatever the guy wants to discard. And so we often reach comically stupid argument like "having a mob with higher damage and HP doesn't make the game harder". Sure, mate, sure.

Was it really harder, or just took more time though? I mean, I guess my definition of hard is things that are seriously challenging.

You literally quote a message mocking the binary thinking of idiots who can't grasp that "harder than something very easy" doesn't mean "very hard".
And you manage to post this.
Herp derp.

What was "harder than current"? Everything took way more time, yes. But harder... how? Rotations surely weren't (often quite the opposite). Leveling surely wasn't (it was just slower, but pulling 1-2 mobs at a time is hardly the height of skill... it literally took me five minutes as a noob to learn how much I can take at once, and then it was just a matter of repeating it a million times).

If it's not harder than Legion, why don't you just grab whole packs then instead of only pulling 1-2 mobs ?

---

I don't know if the fact that I say something to immediately getting unwittingly vindicated from all side is flattering or depressing.

[Tahoga]

I love all these people pretending to remember what vanilla was like, we'll see how hard or easy it is a month into launch when the forums are flooded with complaints.

[Kralljin]

i found vanilla wow much much more easier/faster to do things than runescape back in my day

It's nothing new that WoW in 2004 was really seen as "casual" game compared to other MMO's.

I love all these people pretending to remember what vanilla was like, we'll see how hard or easy it is a month into launch when the forums are flooded with complaints.

There will be because even those that played during Vanilla might've forgotten some "minor" changes that made questing much more convenient, ignoring those people that just want to try it out and realize that they have to relearn almost anything they knew about questing in WoW.

[Rucati]

Nobody says Vanilla was super hard.
What's said is that everything save for bleeding edge raiding was much harder in Vanilla than in current WoW.

The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".
Vanilla was pleasantly and moderately challenging for most of the content, and quite challenging for the high-end raids. Contrast with Legion which is 95% faceroll, 4% challenging and 1 % ultra-hard.

I'd highly disagree with this. Nothing in vanilla was particularly hard, it was just grindy and slow. Raids were significantly easier, vanilla raids were equivalent to LFR now. You could have half the raid pretty much AFK auto attacking the boss and you'd kill it. The only thing that made vanilla raids hard was gathering 40 people, which I hardly give the game credit for, if they asked for 10000 people for a raid it would be almost impossible, but that doesn't make it fun. Vanilla raids certainly got hard with AQ40 and Naxx, but that's basically the top 1%, exactly like the 1% of Legion that's ultra-hard. Everything before that was easy.

The only reason people think vanilla was hard is because they were trash in vanilla. 99% of players were absolutely awful. There were no addons to help with mechanics, hardly anyone had a damage meter in the early raid tiers so if someone was bad you wouldn't even know, half the players were like 12 years old, and putting groups together took forever so gearing up was slower.

If you look at it now and say "Well the 5 man dungeons are super easy and we all blow through them" that's a pretty safe assessment, but think of why. It isn't because the dungeons back in vanilla were harder, it's because we outgear the content way faster now and we run them way more often. If you play for 2 hours a day in vanilla that was probably one dungeon (40 minutes to put a group together in Ironforge, 5 minutes to get to the dungeon, 30-45 minutes for the dungeon), now if you play for 2 hours you can probably get through 5 or 6 dungeons so you gear up faster so the dungeons seem easier. The first week of max level dungeons now are probably equivalent to what vanilla dungeons were for months simply because of that.

Even leveling, something a lot of people talk about, wasn't very hard. Questing was a disaster, with lots of quests just being to walk long distances and talk to somebody and then walk back. The kill quests were grindy, getting 10 tiger teeth took like 40 kills whereas now it's probably 15 at most, and the quests were super spread out instead of being in groups of 3 like they have been for the last few expansions. All this combined to make questing take a long time, but it wasn't a challenge.

So was vanilla harder? No, not really. It took longer, yes. But it wasn't more difficult. In fact I'd say it was significantly easier than now, just nobody knew what they were doing. If people go back to vanilla with DBM and sims they're going to find it's an absolute joke.

[Armourboy]

There has never been anything " hard " about leveling in any MMO, it's all just degrees of time really. WoW was probably one of the last though to have one where you could actually die, unless you were just trying to do something crazy like pull 10 mobs, and frankly most of that was due to either overtuned mobs ( Defias Pillagers) or pack mobs ( murlocs behind Eastvalle logging camp ).

That said, at least it required you to use a little bit of your brain occassionally, most of the recent expacs are pretty much brain dead, same goes for most other MMO's I've tried over the last several years.

I'm looking forward to it again, at least leveling up feels like you are moving forward with the old talent system and spell ranks.

[Akka]

Does making a game really hard make it a good game or? Is it hard to create a hard game? I mean blizz could just boost every mob and bosses abilities/hp x100 like in a single patch, even set professions to cap at a billion on top and would not even sweat at doing that.
What is this all about? :P

Making a game very hard might not make it a good one.
But making a game facerolling easy is certainly making it pretty boring.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd highly disagree with this. Nothing in vanilla was particularly hard, it was just grindy and slow. Raids were significantly easier, vanilla raids were equivalent to LFR now. You could have half the raid pretty much AFK auto attacking the boss and you'd kill it. The only thing that made vanilla raids hard was gathering 40 people, which I hardly give the game credit for, if they asked for 10000 people for a raid it would be almost impossible, but that doesn't make it fun. Vanilla raids certainly got hard with AQ40 and Naxx, but that's basically the top 1%, exactly like the 1% of Legion that's ultra-hard. Everything before that was easy.

Seems you both never played Vanilla nor actually read what I did write.

[Rucati]

Seems you both never played Vanilla nor actually read what I did write.

I guarantee I played vanilla more than you. And I read what you wrote, you said it was hard the entire time. I told you why exactly what made vanilla hard, and why it would no longer apply, but apparently you don't have basic reading comprehension skills so that's unfortunate.

[Akka]

I guarantee I played vanilla more than you. And I read what you wrote, you said it was hard the entire time.

Let me check...

Nobody says Vanilla was super hard.
What's said is that everything save for bleeding edge raiding was much harder in Vanilla than in current WoW.

The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".
Vanilla was pleasantly and moderately challenging for most of the content, and quite challenging for the high-end raids. Contrast with Legion which is 95% faceroll, 4% challenging and 1 % ultra-hard.

Nah, seems I am right, you didn't read it, because I actually said the opposite.

I told you why exactly what made vanilla hard, and why it would no longer apply, but apparently you don't have basic reading comprehension skills so that's unfortunate.

I find it pretty humorous that someone who fails sooooo hard at basic reading tries to give lesson on reading comprehension.