Oh, so this is another one of those threads that prove the truth of the "you think you do, but you don't" statement? How original.
Oh, so this is another one of those threads that prove the truth of the "you think you do, but you don't" statement? How original.
These are jerry-rigged simulacrums. The best they get is staggering the content, but not the patches themselves. By the end of 1.12 a lot of power-creep was introduced, power-creep earlier content was not designed to handle.
Do you actually want 12 day (from server opening, this includes leveling and gearing) MC clears? Because this was not part of the initial classic experience on the official servers, not even remotely. This is a special experience, provided by private servers. They did their best and they did a fantastic job considering their situation, but surely you can ask a bit more from the company who is going to revive it. Rather than release servers with a drastically reduced lifespan and 70% of the content irrelevant. I've wanted legacy servers for a long time and I've enjoyed private servers here and there, but I want more than what a couple of people in their spare time can do (even if it's a good job), I expect more.
So to answer your question more succinctly: A previous absence of options does imply the best option now.
Last edited by RapBreon; 2017-11-19 at 11:03 AM.
I get your point. It seems like we have different views on the "vanilla experience".
I played in vanilla, but I haven't played on private servers and I haven't been pushing for the Classic server.
That said, I would still like to see the game as I remember it. Maybe that's selfish of me. But I remember a fluid vanilla where you didn't knew what was going to happen the next day. Maybe some of the raids which were planned but never added, could now be added.
But I understand this is not what you and many others want.
Blizzard is probably going to deliver the product which is best for business...
Mate I don't care, I just want vanilla servers with untouched classes and balance. If 1.12 is the compromise then so be it. If you find the early content too easy in patch 1.12, you can run it with some pieces of gear unequipped to increase difficulty.
Trouble is nobody can say whether a change will be for the best and I sure don't trust modern blizzard to know how to fix things, so in those conditions maybe it is better to just don't change anything.
Last edited by mmoc18e6a734ba; 2017-11-19 at 11:11 AM.
I don't think people who want raid balance understand how bad that would be for every other aspect of vanilla. Raiding wasn't, and isn't, everything in vanilla. Many of the hybrid dps could get invites to dungeons without problems, and could find raid spots if they put a modicum of effort in.
If you give shadow priests the mana pool/cost reductions to be as much dps as a mage then suddenly shadow is even more of a god in pvp (and aoe).
If you make ret a balanced dps in lower end raid content, they will be far and away the best dps in all the undead content like naxx. Plus they'd absolutely destroy everyone in group utility. They would go from sure we'll bring you to dungeons, and maybe one or two in a raid, to every dungeon wants a ret paladin and nothing else.
If you increase the dot cap (one of the few changes I'd kinda like to see, but would be challenging) then suddenly affliction becomes a sustain/dps monster in raids.
One of the only specs that I think could honestly use any kind of "balancing" without it being overly damaging is boomkin, and only because a 20% mana reduction across the board and nothing else wouldn't make them too strong anywhere else (that I remember, please correct me if I'm wrong).
None of the hybrid specs were so terrible that they couldn't even get dungeon groups, none were so terrible you could absolutely not get a raid group, and many of them had utility and/or were powerful in other aspects of the game. If they apply balancing to them, it can only be slight mana/damage tweaks, and it needs to be done extremely carefully. It should also not ship with the game, but should be introduced later on if they still struggle.
If you want exactly what a private server provides already, why not just stay on a private server? I know there is many reasons to that question...but why wouldn't you want something better if it's now a possibility to have? If I can't get any better than a emulation of an emulation (Blizzard emulating private servers) so be it, but to put settling as your opening argument is ???? You're essentially asking for an expac but with 2/3rds of the endgame content trivialized, I don't understand.
The last line is a bit daft though.
The problem with balance is the entire class deign was different in Vanilla, more so than anywhere. Buff classes existed, who sole purpose was that. Mana batteries. and they were designed that way, it is kind of the problem with 40 man raiding is some specs had a purpose it just wasn't the best or most sexy purpose and gimped them in content outside of raids.
Vanilla is a wild beast and I sort of don't mind the imbalance. Adding paladin taunt and making them a viable tank gimps horde, as there is no true shaman tank. That means warrior and bear only horde side, and bear being very niche.
It is going to be interesting and I think the best decision for blizz is impliment a single patch (1.12 or something, not the person to ask which is best) and ride it out from there. Changing the game too much is basically a redesign. Some of the things added to the game wouldn't be super easy to just add now. It isn't as simple as flip a switch, entire systems would have to be added.
I don't mind a totally pure experience based on patch, but I'll probably at best be a tourist for classic.
Because private servers are illegal ?
I don't want something that wasn't in vanilla at some point because there is a 99 % chance blizzard will mess up if it start changing things balance wise. Plus if something wasn't in vanilla at some point it has no place in classic servers.
ok you just said you didnt push for vanilla
not the people who have worked for it and made themselves heard dont want any changes but there are people such as yourself who try and suggest changes and that is ok its not like you are being malicious or anything but you should realize something....you shouldnt really expect to be able to say "hey i want the changes because i see the game as this way and want to see it continue like that." because you didnt try. You are basically making the argument they have made but years too late. Let the classic guys have what they want and dont moan about it. They put in the effort and we all have access to it. If you go to a birthday party and they serve chocolate cake then you dont get to complain about wanting vanilla cake you just eat the cake or dont and in this case play classic or dont.
Classic should be 1.12 at the latest and shouldnt have any changes other than bug fixes and if you think class balancing is simple i would like to see an example of what you want and what the effects of the change would be because i can guarantee theres more to it.
Correct. Private servers are a close approximation, but not a proper recreation of actual official Vanilla. That is my entire point.
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But at no point did I advocate for anything to be added to Vanilla that did not exist in Vanilla, in the posts quoted. I advocated for them not emulating private servers. As in recreating the life-span of Vanilla back as it was on official, not as they are on private servers.
There's tons of things even the best private server doesn't get right.
- Tiny little bugs that disrupt classes to an unfair degree.
- Hunter pets not attacking while chasing targets correctly.
- Little pathing problems that disrupt casting.
- Power scaling formulas which are erratic at best
- A lot of corruption going on.
- Rampant gold selling and spamming
- Lag and downtime
- Hacks which go unpunished for a long time or even forever.
- Considering it's a single server, it's easy to create monopolies on goods which are always on heavy demand. (I love my monopolies, other don't and I understand)
The "better" people want is just Blizzard doing it. It's also blatantly obvious to anyone that plays on a private server that you never know when it will just vanish.
You're right, you don't understand.
Last edited by tikcol; 2017-11-19 at 11:22 AM.
I mean, I even said there is many reasons, I proposed the question knowing full-well of that. People are really extrapolating a lot from the word better without understanding the context.
Everything you said above the bolded line is exactly what I am saying. So uh, thanks I suppose? Tone's odd for someone who agrees with me though.
Last edited by RapBreon; 2017-11-19 at 11:24 AM.