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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    => The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".

    And no, "moderately challenging" doesn't mean "very hard". That's why there is the "moderately" word in it. Words have meaning.

    Now you're wasting my time kiddo, come back when you have the reading ability of at least a six-years old.
    You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. It's like you typed some things, but don't understand what they mean and can't spend five seconds to look up the words in a dictionary.

    You said it's harder than current. I said no, it isn't. You then claimed that you never said it was hard, but instead said it was challenging. Now you're trying to tell me that challenging and hard don't mean the same thing. If you keep going in circles any faster you're gonna get dizzy.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    ...or pack mobs ( murlocs behind Eastvalle logging camp )...
    Private server today. level 8 Paladin. So I need to kill those murlocks for some fucking fins and click on the remains for a quest. Ohoh. There is a dead player's body. And another. And another... Maybe 15 bodies or so. Not skeletons, bodies. Shit. Look out. There must be murlocks around. See the clickable remains for a quest. There are no murlocks anywhere. Look left. Look right. The coast is clear. Ill click and run away. WTF? 5 Second cast to get remains? ...3...2...1...MRRRRRGGGGLLLLL!!! OMG THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!! Feel like a fucking bad. Laugh because it is kind of funny. Fucking murlocks.

    The quests and the running are fucking meh. But the danger? Pretty fun. Observing your environment, recognising danger and trying to avoid it makes the world more alive. I don't want it in my retail, but hopefully Blizzard can find the balance between absurd travelling and grinding for grind's sake, and danger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
    Because back then Blizzard used mana for most classes as a form of "time gating" and there was less AoE.
    No, that's not the reason you wouldn't grab whole packs. The reason is :
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Because I'd die?
    Good answer.
    So, if I can kill a mob in Classic but I die if I grab ten, while I can grab and faceroll ten in Legion, then to me it seems blatantly obvious that it's much easier to die in Classic, and so Legion is easier.
    The problem here is that you mistakenly believe that 1 mob dealing more damage (with generally zero mechanics) is somehow """harder""" than two mobs dealing the same damage.
    Of course it is. If it's longer to kill a mob and it does more damage, it means that every accidental aggro is actually able to kill you, while in Legion it's irrelevant. So in one case I risk to die and I have to take step to account for it, and in the other I don't care and I lolaoe everything.
    Pulling and fighting one mob that does nothing but run at and attack you is not harder than fighting 24 mobs. Like I said, it is a matter of pacing. Is eating one big grape harder than eating three small grapes that are roughly the same size? No.

    Legion mobs can be a hell of a lot more dangerous in the appropriate gear, because they actually do things. AoE farming Talbuk packs on argus on my frost mage alt, with their ability to frequently charge and chain knock ups is a hell of a lot more dangerous than many of the packs I killed in Vanilla as frost.
    This is all BS, for the simple reason that Vanilla mob actually had abilities. You got stunned, you got rooted, you got backstabed and so on.
    Additionnally, the number of abilities is irrelevant, what's important is their impact. A Legion mob who can do ten things that tickle me is more or less irrelevant, a Vanilla mob who can disarm me for 5s every 15s is actually a noticeable nuisance, and can be truly dangerous if I'm fighting another mob who is doing actual real damage to me.
    Just having humanoid fleeing at low health was more dangerous and required more planning to manage than all the pointless flashy abilities of all the mob in Legion, because none of their were relevant in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jngizu View Post
    Because it fucking isn't. Having to use a spell 5 times instead of twice doesn't make it any harder. It makes it longer. There's nothing hard or challenging about it. We're talking about leveling here, not Mythic raid bosses.

    You keep trying to be a smart-ass, when you're clearly the one who has trouble reading and understanding. W/e, I'm done with you, wasted enough time with someone who lacks basic understanding.
    No, people who repeat mindlessly that having mob five times stronger don't make the game harder are the one with severe logical problems. Like, severe. They are literally saying that stat don't matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.
    Hello.
    Like I said, learn to read first, come back later. You have no place giving anyone lessons about having idea about anything while you can't manage to understand grade-school level of english.
    Shoo.
    Last edited by Akka; 2017-11-19 at 01:17 PM.

  4. #44
    from a perspective of a whatsapp/twitter/facebook/instagram 16-25 year old millenial kiddy, that expect fast paced epixxxes with no effort it maybe will look brutal hard

    for ppl that played video games before 2000, classic wasnt that hard. it was a „bit“ grindy (argent dawn says hi, silk cloth says hi) and a bit hard. but imo exactly perfect hard, to be a real good classic video game, were you feel good if you finally beat something. like video games should be. instead of all that piss easy shit today were you get all for doing nothing (besides that complex jumping out of void zones in less than 5-10 seconds).

    in short: vanilla was harder bc at this time every game was harder. maybe it was a bit harder than the standard back then. but it wasnt brutal hard or nearly undoable hard. imo it had the exact perfect difficulty level.

    at least these are my memories. will be interessting how it feels when i am finally back in MC or BWL
    Last edited by Niwes; 2017-11-19 at 01:24 PM.

  5. #45
    Classic wasn't hard.

    It was just VERY time consuming and you're surrounded by the worst players imaginable. Think of that "journalist" that played cuphead and couldn't get past the first level. I'd say 80% of players were like that. Making raids extremely hard because of how much slack you needed to carry. SOOOO many keyboard turners, back-peddlers, people who refused to use hotkeys and played solely with their mouse, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sibylline View Post
    Yeah guyse, vanilla was just tedious, not harder. Legion is practically identical for all intents and purposes. Being practically invincible doesn't make the game easier. Soloing current level 5 man dungeons doesn't mean the game is easy. No elites in the world or any kind of danger or inconveniences or requirements to think doesn't mean Legion is easy. Having 3 spells instead of 50-60 + a ton of ranks which could be situationally useful doesn't make Legion easy. Clickers in heroic Kil'jaeden spamming those 3 spells doesn't make the game easy. Infinite mana, threat and 50000 other mechanics that were in vanilla but don't exist in Legion anymore don't make the game easier.

    Becoming the best at a certain skill or game or thing isn't difficult, it just takes time and effort.

    You could say this for literally anything. The amount of irl bots and delusion on this forum is unreal.
    Exactly
    The amount of mind-bending these people do to claim that it's "not harder, just takes more time" is impressive. It's a bit like seeing some drug addict in denial.

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    => The problem comes from the retards with binary thinking who can't manage to grasp than "harder than current" doesn't mean "super hard".

    And no, "moderately challenging" doesn't mean "very hard". That's why there is the "moderately" word in it. Words have meaning.

    Now you're wasting my time kiddo, come back when you have the reading ability of at least a six-years old.
    This dude getting rekt by 3 persons at the same time and what he manages to come back with is personal insults on every reply. Can you just stop replying you are embarrassing.

  8. #48
    People are just confusing hard with challenging. Vanilla was hard - it took alot of effort to get where you wanted to be. But it wasn't challenging, as in skill requirement, at least not by today's standards.

  9. #49
    I don't really get what's the point of some people arguing that vanilla wasn't hard, but time-consuming or annoying. I mean these terms can be applied to anything considered hard, like mythic raiding or I dunno, Dark Souls for example.

    Like, what is your definition of "hard" then really?

    In vanilla it was a challenge to just pull out 1 or 2 mobs from a camp and you had to react appropriately depending on how many mobs you have pulled (pulled 1 mob... dps down normaly, pull 2 or 3 => decide whether its worth popping some CD's and/or potions, 4+ run away completely or quickly kill 1 mob first or run away so far that only 1 or 2 follow you etc etc). This might've been time-consuming, yes, sometimes even annoying, yes... but it was also hard and did require quite some thought (and well you'd also die a lot regardless)
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2017-11-19 at 01:31 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Fistface View Post
    This dude getting rekt by 3 persons at the same time and what he manages to come back with is personal insults on every reply. Can you just stop replying you are embarrassing.
    A stupid affirmation doesn't become less stupid because three people are repeating it. Ten people could claim that it's not harder to be in danger of dieing than to not be, it would still be stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by manboiler View Post
    I don't really get what's the point of some people arguing that vanilla wasn't hard, but time-consuming or annoying. I mean these terms can be applied to anything considered hard, like mythic raiding...
    Like, what is your definition of "hard" then really?

    In vanilla it was a challenge to just pull out 1 or 2 mobs from a camp and you had to react appropriately depending on how many mobs you have pulled (pulled 1 mob... dps down normaly, pull 2 or 3 => decide whether its worth popping some CD's and/or potions, 4+ run away completely or quickly kill 1 mob first or run away so far that only 1 or 2 follow you etc etc). This might've been time-consuming, yes, sometimes even annoying, yes... but it was also hard and did require quite some thought.
    Exactly !

    (though "hard" is probably exagerated ; "harder than current WoW", though, is certainly warranted)

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post

    Pulling and fighting one mob that does nothing but run at and attack you is not harder than fighting 24 mobs. Like I said, it is a matter of pacing. Is eating one big grape harder than eating three small grapes that are roughly the same size? No.

    .


    you cant compare it with a grape.. try apple.. cuz grape = mob you can just oneshot, like a grape.. and apple you cant oneshot, just like mobs in vanilla(for the most part).. so try fitting 3 apples in your mouth altogether

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Hello.
    Like I said, learn to read first, come back later. You have no place giving anyone lessons about having idea about anything while you can't manage to understand grade-school level of english.
    Shoo.
    I like how I called you out on your inability to understand what you yourself said, and since then the only thing you've been able to say is "Learn to read". Like you don't even attempt to correct yourself or prove any points, you just repeat back what I said to you and somehow think you're making some kind of statement. It's kind of like arguing with a five year old, which is fitting given your reading comprehension levels.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    I like how I called you out on your inability to understand what you yourself said
    No, you just proved again you can't read and don't understand what words mean.
    Now I'm tired of your constant wasting of time, so I'm putting you on ignore.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    It wasn't that hard. It just required a lot more dedication.

    Runescape though... LOL.

  15. #55
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sibylline View Post
    Having 3 spells instead of 50-60 + a ton of ranks which could be situationally useful doesn't make Legion easy.
    Duuude atleast get your facts right before you start spouting BS. As a mage in vanilla you had a whooping 27 spells with a maximum of 4 additional spells from talents, totalling 31. Yeah i counted in also stuff like ice armor, mage armor, arcane intellect, arcane brilliance, conjure mana gem, slow fall, conjure food and cojure water, spells which have no use in combat or are cast and forget spells. This was across ALL specs with most offensive spells being just the same spell that just varies in spell school (Fireball/Frostbolt/Arcane Missiles) so you just ended up casting the school you were specced in, effectively removing 2/3 of the spells. So you pretty much ended with 6 spells you were using occasionaly, mainly just spamming your nuke.
    As a FROST mage in legion you have 21 base spells with a option of up to 6 extra spells from talents, totalling 27. All of them combat relevant mayby except Slow Fall and Cojnjure Refreshments. Add to that Freeze and Water Jet from the Water Elemental, Passives which actually mean something and you can interact with their procs and the Mastery. And that is just for ONE spec. Now do the math yourself please.

    I do not get how you or anyone else can write Vanilla had more spells than retail. People who make these kinds of statements deserve to be hit by a brick in the face. Please think and do some research before you start saying nonsense.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    No, you just proved again you can't read and don't understand what words mean.
    Now I'm tired of your constant wasting of time, so I'm putting you on ignore.
    Oh hey look at that, you took the same sentence I said like three responses ago and used it again. Is copying other people the only thing you can do? Coming up with your own thoughts is too difficult for someone like you I imagine. At least I know I'm right, and you've proven to everyone you're ignorant.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Majkls View Post
    I do not get how you or anyone else can write Vanilla had more spells than retail.
    I haven't counted, but I think Vanilla had slightly more spells than Legion.
    Regardless, it's more about spells differing by their significance and situtional use.
    Lots of spell in Legion only differs in the amount of damage they do, and many who are situational simply are used next to never and nearly any situation can be solved with "spam harder your AoE damage ability".
    In contrast, most abilities in Vanilla have a specific use, so the "rotation" is much more basic, but there is much more variety in what you can and need to do according to the situation. Spamming the same ability when the shit hits the fan means typically a dead player.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by skannerz22 View Post
    i played runescape for 3 years
    you have no idea what the meaning of grinding truely is untill you played their classic

    here is my character
    https://apps.runescape.com/runemetri...yer/skannerz22

    my character is so old that it doesn't even level up in the conventional sense anymore

    just imagine vanilla wow with a 0.3x exp modifier on everything
    there are no classes
    you rely on your proffesions for everything
    every piece of content in the game required a skill level

    it's just funny
    i see all these vanilla supporters being stuck in nostalgia saying how hard vanilla was compared to current wow
    and here i am remembering how much harder runescape was compared to wow

    and in vanilla people would pick premade specs and classes and do everything the same as everyone else with a bunch of addons to try and make the game even easier

    i doubt wow classic WITH NO CHANGES will be as hard as people remember it to be

    i started playing wow because you could make a campfire without it requiring a skill level
    you could fish nearly anywhere without it requiring such a high skill level
    you could make some current character level food without having to grind for months just to be able to cook the food without needing to level up 3 different skills just to eat it or even better.. you could just buy your food from a vendor in wow *drools*

    i found vanilla wow much much more easier/faster to do things than runescape back in my day
    I think your brain got affected by grinding Runescape. Everyone knows that Runescape was ridiculous and much more grindy than vanilla WoW. People say vanilla was hard compared to retail WoW, not compared to Runescape.

  19. #59
    The grind was tedium as were a lot of early MMOs. Everquest and Runescape were a hell of a lot worse and Vanilla improved upon their formula by still keeping the grind there but just not as tedious. I mean Everquest had you faction grinding and profession grinding for 1 entire piece of gear sometimes.

    I'd say Vanillas difficulty lied in it's leveling and raiding mostly. And the ability to put that time down to grind your PvP rank.

    However I'd say the current games difficulty lies in it's endgame more than the journey to 110. Raiding and PvP mostly.

    Both games as I said are difficult in their own right. But the thing is they are difficult by a different standard of time. Not that it's an issue either. Both games as I've constantly stated are amazing in their own way. And I look forward to playing Classic alongside Battle for Azeroth.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2017-11-19 at 01:50 PM.

  20. #60
    Vanilla actually did have some mechanics that are more difficult than current.

    Threat was actually a thing you could lose to a DPS. You had to be careful and sometimes DPS had to use threat reduction abilities.
    You had to CC some pulls, because they did too much damage. You can no-brain dungeons now.
    Getting agro from a second mob was potentially a death sentence. Mor Ladim in Duskwood killing everyone, that sort of thing.
    Some elite quests you really did need another person

    It was harder in a sense. If you're talking about just raids, then okay.

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