Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[Vespian]

Because not everyone sees it as an evil thing? I don't mind lootboxes in say Overwatch because it gives me something to look forward to each level along with playing the game. I don't have to buy the boxes to get anything extra, but it's an option.

Something like EA's where there are things in there that help you win and you can't unlock normally then yeah I'm against it.

It's not about morals or anything. It's about facing facts here. Which one is going to cause more harm in games? EA's method.

Which is why I'm explicitly talking about

paying > lootboxes > advantages

I'm not talking about

free > lootboxes > cosmetics.

[Alydael]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ba...GSS-05-10aaa0b





Enjoy the lootbox shit while you can because more and more country's are going to crackdown on it and rule it for what it is... Gambling.

Truthfully, I don't understand why these games don't just drop the loot boxes immediately:

1) They are hated by the community. There are probably millions of posts about how hated they are.
2) They could possibly be illegal. Why invite legal trouble? The lawyer bills will eat any profits you made.

Just sell the items you could have bought in the loot box.

I play Guild Wars 2 and have never bought a random crate thing. I do spend about 15$ a month buying things like outfits etc in their shop.

You don't need to try and bamboozle players with some kind of "loot box profit model." Just be honest, create a quality product and put the items at a fair price with no trickery. You will make money that way because people appreciate the honesty.

Also, consider the loot boxes. For every 20 players that buy one- 17 are completely disappointed, two got something decent and are ok with it and one is really happy because they got something nice.

Why piss off 17 out of 20 players that are willing to spend in your shop? That literally makes no sense.

[Yunru]

I don't understand the mentality of "I don't like this, therefore it should be illegal" because let's face it that's all this argument is about. People happy that there is some possible legal out to something they don't like.

Look I don't like lootboxes either, soooooooooooooo... I don't buy them. Not sure how that is hard to understand? I also would not start playing a game which offered power increases inside said lootboxes for that same reason, it's not fun and I can spend money on something I will enjoy more.

We have a problem, because they are using psyhological tricks instead of real drugs:


Every time you open up a lootbox your dopamine lvls raise and you want to open more and more. (just replace meth with lootbox)

[ComputerNerd]

Are there any gameplay implications with any of the Overwatch loot options ?

You aren't actually presenting your own argument, only jumping on the bandwagon that it is bad because someone else says so.
Non-gameplay affecting ones are fine.

There are guaranteed minimum results in the case of Overwatch, something most gambling does not have.

take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

Cherry-picking intentionally vague statement.
Take risky action in the hope of a desired result - Mythic + Keystones, Run through a group of mobs hoping you don't get dazed and dismounted.
And that is only two very quick examples.
If you want to use that statement as some sort of proof, then that is equally applied to vast amounts of mechanics in games.
That is even differentiated from the first indicating the need for the payment in the first place.
Therefore defined as taking a risky action, with the risk being entirely the consequences rather than an investment.

[Okacz]

My daughter enjoys the lootbox shit, so I hope them Belgians don't ruin it for us.

I think your daughter is the primary reason Belgians are trying to "ruin shit". They aren't trying to, I don't know, delete gambling from the world. They are trying to figure out whether or not OV boxes should be considered gambling, in which case they would probably try to make sure the game gets labeled in the right way. You know, 18+ and with gambling warning.

It's the same as with other ESRB ratings. Some themes are just regarded bad for children, for instance many games which show drug consumption that makes you better and stronger tend to get labeled 18+. And with ESRB, it's specifically stated that exploiting gambling themes is always 18+. You can't get high on game drugs or drunk with game beer, but you sure as hell can get addicted to gambling with game gambling.

I'm also slightly confused seeing people actually DEFENDING any lootboxes. Might be cases of people already starting to get addicted to this crap. If Blizzard would remove lootboxes from OV, would they remove all the skins and potential of making money on them? Of course not, neither would any game. They would just be forced to go back to a more natural system, like having a shop where you can select what you can buy with in-game currency. They don't lose the money they would be getting from people who would like to get those skins - but they no longer exploit gambling mechanics to get even more. And it's an obvious win situation for gamers who want the skins, since they won't be getting shit they don't want from lootboxes.

[Flarelaine]

I think your daughter is the primary reason Belgians are trying to "ruin shit". They aren't trying to, I don't know, delete gambling from the world. They are trying to figure out whether or not OV boxes should be considered gambling, in which case they would probably try to make sure the game gets labeled in the right way. You know, 18+ and with gambling warning.

It's the same as with other ESRB ratings. Some themes are just regarded bad for children, for instance many games which show drug consumption that makes you better and stronger tend to get labeled 18+. And with ESRB, it's specifically stated that exploiting gambling themes is always 18+. You can't get high on game drugs or drunk with game beer, but you sure as hell can get addicted to gambling with game gambling.

I'm also slightly confused seeing people actually DEFENDING any lootboxes. Might be cases of people already starting to get addicted to this crap. If Blizzard would remove lootboxes from OV, would they remove all the skins and potential of making money on them? Of course not, neither would any game. They would just be forced to go back to a more natural system, like having a shop where you can select what you can buy with in-game currency. They don't lose the money they would be getting from people who would like to get those skins - but they no longer exploit gambling mechanics to get even more. And it's an obvious win situation for gamers who want the skins, since they won't be getting shit they don't want from lootboxes.

I'm defending this shit because my daughter likes Overwatch, along with opening lootboxes every now and then. I don't mind if EA and all the other p2w companies get burnt to the ground, I just don't want some overzealous busybodies ruin her fun.

[Noxina]

I don't pay $5 each for the right to kill each raid boss in WoW.

No, you pay $15 to play each month.

[Orange Joe]

You spend money with the believe that your investment will in time return. Whether that be in more money, or in other goods, is irrelevant.

That isn't gambling. That is investing.

[Verdugo]

I'm defending this shit because my daughter likes Overwatch, along with opening lootboxes every now and then. I don't mind if EA and all the other p2w companies get burnt to the ground, I just don't want some overzealous busybodies ruin her fun.

So you are buying your daughter lootboxes just because she likes flashy colors and effects?

Its time to stop making decisions buddy.

[Orange Joe]

I find it very interesting that you fail to see were the road you are on leads, but hey one day when you get fucked over by a corporation feel free to write about it on MMO-C so I can have a good laugh, you shouldn't trust corporations so easily, they only answer to shareholders, not the cattle they feed shit too.

Governments are inherently slow, large corporations are inherently greedy, I know which one I prefer.

Down the same exact road as casinos which are legal in my state.

[Deleted]

This is actually why it's not gambling. Opening lootboxes isn't a risky action, you don't lose anything.

Gambling is much wider than that in Belgium :

Gambling is buying or paying for something to get more gains out of it than what you put into it (it also doesn't reflect only to money, it can reflect to anything and especially in terms of games it's extremely wide and open, it allows them to pretty much object any kind of gambling if they think it could cause gambling addictions).

& It doesn't mean that the lootboxes contain items with no monetary value that it isn't gambling, you still gamble to get the best items by spending money, for a lot of people this is an addiction and that's why our government is very protective over it.

[oplawlz]

Overwatch gives you free loot boxes every couple of matches. You only invest time, but that is the same for raid bosses.

And you would still have free lootboxes in games. It's selling them that's gambling. I agree that the free lootboxes for levelling up are fun, it's exciting to see what comes out of the box. That's the point though - some people don't have the strength of will to just wait for another free box. Gambling is an addiction with serious life altering effects. We should not be introducing children to this through video games.

I'm all about selling cosmetics in games, but just sell me the skins or whatever. Charging for a chance at what you want is just scummy.

[Orange Joe]

So you are buying your daughter lootboxes just because she likes flashy colors and effects?

Its time to stop making decisions buddy.

Pretty sure he is talking about the free ones you get for playing.

- - - Updated - - -

And you would still have free lootboxes in games. It's selling them that's gambling. I agree that the free lootboxes for levelling up are fun, it's exciting to see what comes out of the box. That's the point though - some people don't have the strength of will to just wait for another free box. Gambling is an addiction with serious life altering effects. We should not be introducing children to this through video games.

I'm all about selling cosmetics in games, but just sell me the skins or whatever. Charging for a chance at what you want is just scummy.

What are these people gonna do when they hit 18 and can just walk into casinos?

[Flarelaine]

So you are buying your daughter lootboxes just because she likes flashy colors and effects?

Its time to stop making decisions buddy.

I grind lootboxes with her, actually. But even if I buy them... it's my money to spend.

[oplawlz]

Pretty sure he is talking about the free ones you get for playing.

- - - Updated - - -




What are these people gonna do when they hit 18 and can just walk into casinos?

They'll be past the point in their intellectual development where they have learned better impulse control. Granted a better age limit would be 25 or so, but I cannot control the arbitrary number governments have chosen.

For the record I don't really hold to the "for the children" argument, and I only used it because the poster I quoted specifically mentioned their child. Gambling isn't great for anyone, but gambling that has literally no chance for a return of value is particularly abhorrent.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure he is talking about the free ones you get for playing.

- - - Updated - - -




What are these people gonna do when they hit 18 and can just walk into casinos?

Luckily the Belgian casinos have strict rules as well, you need to get verified and then you have a limit on what you can spend and how much you can go into debt, if you got too much debt, you will be denied at any Belgian casino and the government will potentially help you out with the money they get from selling gambling licenses. Great system.

Perhaps countries like the USA should learn. Annually you spend over $53 billion on gambling addiction, that is money which could have been spent in much more important areas (education, etc) but you rather be free, not controlled by your government and pay taxes for those which cannot control their impulse to gamble, great system!

[Orange Joe]

Luckily the Belgian casinos have strict rules as well, you need to get verified and then you have a limit on what you can spend and how much you can go into debt, if you got too much debt, you will be denied at any Belgian casino and the government will potentially help you out with the money they get from selling gambling licenses. Great system.

Not here. Turn 18, show ID, don't send yourself into debt cause it's your problem if you do.

[Deleted]

Not here. Turn 18, show ID, don't send yourself into debt cause it's your problem if you do.

Used to be here too before 2001. They changed the law and the governments supervised it, because the Belgians didn't want to pay extra taxes for some people that couldn't control their gambling addictions.

[Golden]

In the US, I think they are going to have to consider loot boxes as gambling. The reason why is because it would be easy for a state lottery to change their "game" to work exactly like loot boxes do. Then, when the state drags them into court trying to force them to pay tax, these lotteries will just point to video game companies that do exactly the same thing...yet, the court already ruled that it wasn't gambling.

[segara82]

I'm defending this shit because my daughter likes Overwatch, along with opening lootboxes every now and then. I don't mind if EA and all the other p2w companies get burnt to the ground, I just don't want some overzealous busybodies ruin her fun.

And the bolded part is the part we worry about/what the investigation is about. The companies (EA, AB, ...) want you and especially your daughter to get addicted to that, the sooner/younger the better. It makes for a more loyal customer. All the effects, lights, sound and such get designed to get you addicted.
Do you want these companies free reign in trying to make your daughter a gambling addict? 'cause you alone will neither be always around to prevent that or stop these corporations by yourself.