Balance the classes. Keep the content the same. Just stop.

[Blamblam41]

The war continues I see.

This is going to tear the community apart to the point where we are going to need a WoW: Classic, a WoW: Classic: Modern, a WoW: Classic: Hardcore and a fucking WoW: Classic: True Vaniller.

You people are causing more of an outroar than flying, lack of running over water mounts, 7.2 invasions and Argus combined. The salt level in this war is comparable to the players still wondering why there is a faction war in BfA when there's a gushing planet size wound in the planet.

[Kaver]

ok you just said you didnt push for vanilla

not the people who have worked for it and made themselves heard dont want any changes but there are people such as yourself who try and suggest changes and that is ok its not like you are being malicious or anything but you should realize something....you shouldnt really expect to be able to say "hey i want the changes because i see the game as this way and want to see it continue like that." because you didnt try. You are basically making the argument they have made but years too late. Let the classic guys have what they want and dont moan about it. They put in the effort and we all have access to it. If you go to a birthday party and they serve chocolate cake then you dont get to complain about wanting vanilla cake you just eat the cake or dont and in this case play classic or dont.

Classic should be 1.12 at the latest and shouldnt have any changes other than bug fixes and if you think class balancing is simple i would like to see an example of what you want and what the effects of the change would be because i can guarantee theres more to it.

I don't want to enforce changes on anyone. I just think that maybe some aspects of the game could be up for discussion... but again, not forcing anything.

For me the the big differences between live and vanilla was the community and challenging content (leveling, professions, weapon skills, making a group for dungeons/raids). Some class balancing will not change all those great aspects of the game.

But again, it's only a subject of discussion. I'm not saying "I WANT THIS! GIVE ME WHAT I WANT!"

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it doesnt matter what you see vanilla as

vanilla ended therefore it is defined

otherwise the argument could be made is legion is still vanilla

I think you can open up the game again.

If you make ret palas viable, Vanilla and Legion will still be very different games.

[TyrianFC]

stop moaning as if this is a major issue.

you can't have classes being useless and not being selected for vanilla content. that is just silly argument to want that the same.

keep all the content the same and just introduce balance to the classes which given the years of exp at attempting this, Blizzard should be able to achieve to some extent.

at least enough of a balance that everything can be cleared assuming you know how to play your class/spec and are geared.


very simple solution and not a reason to be screaming the sky is falling.

Wrong. Classes and specs being useless **IS** what made vanilla, vanilla. If you want it changed, then stop saying you want vanilla.

[Keltas]

"Impossible" does not mean "it will not be the same".

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And that would hurt you because?

It would hurt because dot classes were very very strong, and if they could stack dots, then suddenly everything is trivialized, and thus it hurts everyone in the experience.

[Deleted]

if they balance the classes but dont change the content, then the raids will be super fucking easy...

you are horrible, have horrible ideas, and are just a bad person.
keep te content the same
keep the clasees the same.

dank i used to think your posts funny just from how out of touch they were.
but no you are just pathetic.

please keep thread topic related and not attacking strangers on the internet because you are upset. pretty weird.

[Deleted]

I played Vanilla, and one of the best parts about it was spending hours putting together a good raid composition, getting everyone onto Ventrilo and really doing your best to down a boss, I don't mind if some classes are useless, if you want to play an underperforming spec, thats on you, if you want to be a loser and not a winner, thats on you.

[superhumanj]

Keep in mind when you say a spec is "useless" you're talking about raiding, I would imagine only a very small niche % of people will raid in Vanilla, seriously at least. Those that are raiding probably already know the classes/specs to avoid bringing so they just won't play those specs. From my understanding the only dps you don't bring is a boomkin, Feral may be low dps but leader of the pack makes it worth it. Most hybrids that do low dps themselves bring something else to the table that makes other dps shine. Warlocks for example didn't do the same dps as a mage, but mages couldn't do the dps they do without curse of elements from the warlock. So you bring a warlock anyways. This isn't bring the player not the class days, in these days classes could bring something unique enough to the raid that you wanted to see at least 1 of everything, Yes you will see raids that are largely made off warrior/rogue>hunter/mage, and that's okay because that's Vanilla

Prot paladins couldn't tank in a raid, but they shine at solo aoe farming like other classes couldn't possibly do. Boomkins excel in some BGs and world pvp.Feral is really good at solo questing. So if these specs are already the best at something how do you make them better in raids without them breaking the game where they would already excel?

[Vuxul]

Vanilla had its own issues on balance, I think it would be preferable to just launch it from the patch they decide on and then look at balance issues as they arrive. Changes are probably needed but it would be far premature to decide on tweaks before people get to actually try the old state.

[Deleted]

Problem is, even if you fixed specs like protection for paladins, there would be no gear for it. Paladin gear was all +healing stuff and without proper gear, any spec isn't very good. So what do you do? Do you revamp the whole tier sets too so they can be used with multiple specs?

Okay lets do that, lets change the specs and gear sets. But oh no, paladins are much better at AOE tanking than warriors were and suddenly many raid encounters become completely trivial to beat. Do you start changing raid encounters too now?

Its a huge slippery slope.

[Servasus]

On the surface I agree balancing the specs some would be good, but the issue is you can't do that in a vacuum. You'll need to give specs abilities they don't have in vanilla, like a taunt for prot paladins. Itemization and set bonuses are a mess for many classes. Buffing certain specs to compete could easily cause ripples throughout the meta. The issue becomes how to do you make say prot paladins viable as main raid tanks without overhauling too much?

It's almost as if the original version of the game was actually pretty shitty, unbalanced and even unplayable at times! Imagine that!

[Fayolynn]

Horrible class balance is part of what made Vanilla what it was. Doing a complete overhaul of the classes to make them "equal" is a huge deviation. You state that you can't have classes (I assume you mean specs) being useless but never really gave any reason why. It worked fine through Vanilla, no need to change it up.

[Halyon]

When you go back and play an old game, you do not play that game with updated this and fixed that. You play the game as it was at the time. Old graphics, some bugs, less features than the current version. Those are the things that make it feel like the old game that you played before. If you change those things, it will not be the same.

Yes I do. If the game was good, but had some pretty shitty features, I'd want them fixed for a better experience than the first. Because the first experience has been experienced, it will never come back and be the same. It's nostalgia.

Wrong. Classes and specs being useless **IS** what made vanilla, vanilla. If you want it changed, then stop saying you want vanilla.

It's almost like humans are different and like different things about a bigger picture.

[Servasus]

Vanilla had its own issues on balance, I think it would be preferable to just launch it from the patch they decide on and then look at balance issues as they arrive. Changes are probably needed but it would be far premature to decide on tweaks before people get to actually try the old state.

Blizzard's mistake was making the servers in the first place. Literally no matter what they do, they are going to have snot-nosed vanilla purists breathing out of their mouths down their necks about any teeny tiny change that is made ever.

For fuck's sake, there are people ACTUALLY complaining about b.net integration. It's literally the same fucking thing as Friend Chat, which existed in vanilla, but they don't want it in because "it didn't exist in vanilla so it ruins my classic experience!"

If that's the case, why don't you go fucking play on a shitty computer from 2005 and while you're at it stick your head in a bucket of Tang.

Nostalgia destroys people because they live in the past and fail to ever progress as human beings. People who are seriously threatening to riot against Blizzard for things like b.net chat are the reason I wish Blizzard had never given into this idea in the first place. I even WANT to play it, but from the sound of it, the vanilla purist community is going to be even more toxic and overbearing than the live game's community, which I never thought could be possible, and will ruin any fun you could have. Just wait. There are going to be people in game who will yell at you for even mentioning the existence of expansions in game chat.

"Legion didn't exist in vanilla! Stop talking about it on classic servers! You're ruining my classic experience!"

[Hctaz]

On the surface I agree balancing the specs some would be good, but the issue is you can't do that in a vacuum. You'll need to give specs abilities they don't have in vanilla, like a taunt for prot paladins.

I don't think you really need to do that at all. I mean.. aside from the fact that so many bosses were just immune to taunting ANYWAY, you don't need to give them new abilities. Taunt or not taunt wasn't the problem that Prot Pallies had. They had weird talents that relied on them being crit and, as such, they actually got crit a lot. A crit from a boss would just anally destroy them. It's just how they played. Now, they're very nearly fine for tanking adds and the like which would work out. The only problem is that they went OOM often.

But so many things could be fixed about classes without actually giving them a new ability. Prot pallys have some passive that gives them mana back, same with Boomkins. Curse of Elements reduces the target's Nature resistance as well which would instantly make Elemental shamans more viable. None of these things are new abilities. Just bake them into a talent that was already good. Moonkin form now reduces the mana cost of your spells by X% on top of what it normally did. See? Not that hard.

The only hard part would be making sure the content doesn't just instantly become irrelevant. They would probably have to retune bosses.

[Florena]

I don't think you really need to do that at all. I mean.. aside from the fact that so many bosses were just immune to taunting ANYWAY, you don't need to give them new abilities. Taunt or not taunt wasn't the problem that Prot Pallies had. They had weird talents that relied on them being crit and, as such, they actually got crit a lot. A crit from a boss would just anally destroy them. It's just how they played. Now, they're very nearly fine for tanking adds and the like which would work out. The only problem is that they went OOM often.

But so many things could be fixed about classes without actually giving them a new ability. Prot pallys have some passive that gives them mana back, same with Boomkins. Curse of Elements reduces the target's Nature resistance as well which would instantly make Elemental shamans more viable. None of these things are new abilities. Just bake them into a talent that was already good. Moonkin form now reduces the mana cost of your spells by X% on top of what it normally did. See? Not that hard.

The only hard part would be making sure the content doesn't just instantly become irrelevant. They would probably have to retune bosses.

That's the issue, if they buff specs so everything is viable then have to retune the bosses, that may stray too far from vanilla for what a lot of the people are wanting from it. Personally I'd prefer that but I'm also not the target audience.

[Hctaz]

That's the issue, if they buff specs so everything is viable then have to retune the bosses, that may stray too far from vanilla for what a lot of the people are wanting from it. Personally I'd prefer that but I'm also not the target audience.

Well, it wouldn't stray further at all. I think the most important changes to be made would simply be increasing the health of enemies. Probably not damage. But maybe they would as well? But if it feels exactly the same, then I don't see how it could be straying from Vanilla, right? If nothing is added or removed, then how can it feel changed?

[Halyon]

That's the issue, if they buff specs so everything is viable then have to retune the bosses, that may stray too far from vanilla for what a lot of the people are wanting from it. Personally I'd prefer that but I'm also not the target audience.

Oh how utterly terrible that it might be enjoyable for other people to play something that's also viable for things end-game instead of just being resigned to being some farmbot. MUH VANILLUH EXPEWIENZ!

I'm sorry for the mocking tone, but do you not know how utterly brickwall and impossible you come across as? Not you specifically, purists as a whole. ANYTHING that didn't exist in vanilla cannot ever get near vanilla because it'll just ruin it? The air we breathe right now dodn't exist in vanilla. There's not a snowball's chance in a volcano for it to be exactly like vanilla.

people know more, are more experienced etc, that alone makes it not the same. Or do you want to be sledgehammered in the skull until you've forgotten basic bodily functions? So with this in mind, what is the problem with fixing some legit shite things that was in vanilla, huh?

Or do you specifcally want to abuse some class imbalances, hm? 'Cus that can be easily construed...

[Wiedzemir]

Can someone in this thread make a list of useless specs? And most importantly describe why they think these specs are useless.

[Florena]

Oh how utterly terrible that it might be enjoyable for other people to play something that's also viable for things end-game instead of just being resigned to being some farmbot. MUH VANILLUH EXPEWIENZ!

I'm sorry for the mocking tone, but do you not know how utterly brickwall and impossible you come across as? Not you specifically, purists as a whole. ANYTHING that didn't exist in vanilla cannot ever get near vanilla because it'll just ruin it? The air we breathe right now dodn't exist in vanilla. There's not a snowball's chance in a volcano for it to be exactly like vanilla.

people know more, are more experienced etc, that alone makes it not the same. Or do you want to be sledgehammered in the skull until you've forgotten basic bodily functions? So with this in mind, what is the problem with fixing some legit shite things that was in vanilla, huh?

Or do you specifcally want to abuse some class imbalances, hm? 'Cus that can be easily construed...

I know, and I agree Vanilla would overall be a better game if they redid some balancing, but I also recognize I'm not the kind of player they're making classic servers for. I'm the kind of person that would log on, fiddle around maybe get to level 30 before getting bored and going back to BFA. It's the purists and nostalgia crowd that Classic servers will probably be aimed not. If their goal is for Classic to be accurate to Vanilla it needs the flaws and warts too.

[Shiny212]

No thanks.