Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[DemonHunter18]

welp, power ranking

1. Jiren
2. Goku
3. Kefla
4. Hit
5. Vegeta/Toppo

[Selastan]

Is gogeta stronger than vegeto???

Ohoho no. Vegito is the strongest fighter we have seen so far.

[GennGreymane]

Ohoho no. Vegito is the strongest fighter we have seen so far.

Outside of Whis, Beerus, the other gods, etc. Although Jiren is stronger than his god maybe? Is vegito blue jiren level?

[Nilinor]

Outside of Whis, Beerus, the other gods, etc. Although Jiren is stronger than his god maybe? Is vegito blue jiren level?

I think it was stated in an earlier episode (like 30+ ago) that "someone" at the tournament could beat Beerus, I think they meant Jiren.

At this point, I highly doubt anyone there fits the bill outside of him.

[Selastan]

Outside of Whis, Beerus, the other gods, etc. Although Jiren is stronger than his god maybe? Is vegito blue jiren level?

We don't know how Vegito would hold up against them, considering how inconsistent power levels are. But using comparison (a dirty word if you ask Toriyama), the power difference between Goku/Vegata and Beerus is a lot smaller than the one between Goku/Vegeta and Super Buu. Back then, their fusion KICKED ASS, Vegito TOYED with Buu, even after being turned into candy, making him several times, maybe even hundreds, stronger than Buu. It stands to reason (although this is likely not the case) that Blue Vegito would be far stronger than Beerus and Whis. Jiren has proven that enough power beats Ultra Instinct, so Whis wouldn't have a chance.

[DemonHunter18]

current Vegito Blue is still weaker than Beerus.

UI Vegito though...

[Golden Yak]

Grand Priest < Angels < Jiren < Gods of Destruction < Everyone Else thus far in Super (SSB saiyans, True Golden Freeza, Merged Zamasu, Vegito, etc.)

Though I'd put UI Goku on Jiren's level (Jiren hasn't used his full power yet) and Kefla around there as well based on how she did against UI Goku.

I'd say UI Goku this latest episode was stronger than during his fight with Jiren, due to Goku getting better control over it. The next time Goku gets to UI he'll have an even better handle on it and force Jiren to use his full power.

[Lahis]

Grand Priest < Angels < Jiren < Gods of Destruction < Everyone Else thus far in Super (SSB saiyans, True Golden Freeza, Merged Zamasu, Vegito, etc.)

So you're saying the mortals are the strongest?

[Moralgy]

So you're saying the mortals are the strongest?

flip the signs and it makes sense

[Golden Yak]

Whoops. Yeah, what Algy said.

MAFFS HURR

[KainneAbsolute]

Caulifla was really wounded before the fusion, so i think ALL the power comes from Kale. I really think Kale´s super saiyan is really special and her raw power is almost infinite.

[Lahis]

Caulifla was really wounded before the fusion, so i think ALL the power comes from Kale. I really think Kale´s super saiyan is really special and her raw power is almost infinite.

It's the Legendary Super Saiyan. Insanely strong compared to other forms and this time on a decent character.

[GennGreymane]

I like how Kefla did a ki attack we never saw before.... she just went full cyclops

[Blueobelisk]

Just saw 116. I liked it better than the other recent episodes, especially the part where UI attacking is harder than UI dodging.

It's a little stupid that UI is being treated like a power level though where Goku's aura is "hot". It really only makes sense that he stays at base power and is able to move well. But no, it's much cooler to animate it being on par with SS2 Kale, who talks about destroying the universe with her hits (read as: barely make a dent in a small platform)....

[Vestig3]

Jiren has proven that enough power beats Ultra Instinct

Is this from some future episode or something havent seen Jiren do that yet.

[DemonHunter18]

https://mangastream.com/r/dragon_ball_super/023/4212/44

No he's not.

You seem to forget that a potara fusion is not A + B, but rather something like A x B.
Their power is multiplied many times over.

I didn't forget anything and according to Herms, an actual translation is he might surpass Beerus.

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I honestly don't see why we need to discuss the power level of fusions. Fusions are OP. The truly impressive part is that UI Goku is so overwhelming that he handled Kefla, not that Kefla was powerful. Every time we've seen fusion in Dragon Ball it was absolutely overwhelming. Kale and Cauliflower are certainly impressive though and clearly far more advanced than Goku or Vegeta at their age (but honestly if they weren't, what would be the point of them showing up). But neither of them is at this point strong enough to handle the U7 Saiyans individually. I mean together they struggled to deal with a tired out Goku.
As I said, the entire point of Kefla was to give Goku a powerful opponent so that he could practice UI again before he masters it during the Jiren fight. The other strong opponents are after all taken (Vegeta has to handle the Lorax after the damn mustache send him to the burn unit)

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I think he is at base power. UI lets him dodge everything and using it offensively, even poorly, lets him strike at the perfect point. If he had connected so many blows during Blue, he'd certainly have done far more damage. Even much less force can give significant effect when applied at the weakest possible point after all.

I expect that even mastered UI will not be enough for Jiren. He will need to transform during UI. Super's probably final villain is the Grand Priest, who is strong enough that he can probably humiliate the GoDs (even multiple GoDs at once) so simply getting at the level of a GoD is not enough for Goku.

personally, I think UI increases everything, both attack and defense.

[DemonHunter18]

I mean it massively improve technique but that's not the same as power.

true but he powered up a lot according to Kefla.

[Wikko]

Bringing fusion in to this was pretty stupid imo. Now it's just silly that there wouldnt be Vegito when he could probably win in seconds. If Kefla is that powerfull and Goku can still beat her then Vegito could simply win the tournament in a single blow

[Adramalech]

Bringing fusion in to this was pretty stupid imo. Now it's just silly that there wouldnt be Vegito when he could probably win in seconds. If Kefla is that powerfull and Goku can still beat her then Vegito could simply win the tournament in a single blow

It's a risk, though. They don't know yet how far Jiren's power goes. What if he still outclasses Vegito Blue? They risk losing both Goku and Vegeta at once, just like Caulifla and Kale went down at once because they were fused.

Plus they would not last long enough. With how quickly he defused against Zamasu, there's a good chance he would defuse before beating Jiren.

Plus even without Blue, Vegito could probably just push every fighter not called Jiren, Toppo, or Frieza with a simple kiai around him.

[Wikko]

It's a risk, though. They don't know yet how far Jiren's power goes. What if he still outclasses Vegito Blue? They risk losing both Goku and Vegeta at once, just like Caulifla and Kale went down at once because they were fused.

Plus they would not last long enough. With how quickly he defused against Zamasu, there's a good chance he would defuse before beating Jiren.

Plus even without Blue, Vegito could probably just push every fighter not called Jiren, Toppo, or Frieza with a simple kiai around him.

Then how could they ever beat them 1 on 1?