WoW players that switched to FFXIV, I need your opinions

[Video Games]

Nah Gridania hasn't discovered French Fries just yet

More tummy.

[leviathonlx]

You are comparing a place meant to have insane varoety to one meant to look very similar.

In real world terms you are comparing bare bones architecture from say mexico or arizona to akihabara in japan. One would of course seem more dull looking.

Remember ala mhigans are just rebuilding(and they sttike me as not hyper showy colors wise too) whhile the nightborne were living in a city DESIGNED to be austentacious.

Try comparing them to similar places at least.

Though honestly not sure anywhere is truly comparable sans moonglad/teldrassil to griddannia. Though eveb then hriddanians do what is needed and try not to do more night elves have a history of being a weeeee bit flashy but not entirely so.

Oh maybe thunderbluff/tauren areas vs the steppes they seem to live similar nomadic lifestyles though one is mongol based the other native american comparing them seems easiest imo.

I guess the othee things is both games go for different types of fsntasy vibes warcraft has always been bright, a bit over the top and flashy in character, armor and city designs while ffxiv seems to be a bit jors grounded and not as in your face.

Both artstyles are good but nakes direct comoarisons hard.

As for outdoor content are you implying ffxiv has none? Because you DO realize wows current model likely used gw2 and ffxiv as a base.

You seem confused about what I'm referring to when I mention zone detail and why I'm not going to use stuff WoW released 10 years ago to compare to FF14 as it's only fair to use both games most recent expansions. Zone detail is referring to doodads that spice things up and break up monotony and also make it to things like repeating textures are not as noticeable. This can be leaves, trees, rocks, varied textures, more building variety, and other small details. And let's be honest here, Mexico is a beautiful country with plenty of variety and the American west has some of the most spectacular environments on the planet. Ala Mhigo wasn't a city leveled to the ground either so let's not try and pretend like all these structures are new as it's just a case of Square not spicing up the area (even ruins can be spiced up to look pretty neat). Just like their underwater areas are barebones places of copy pasted kelp and rocks. In the end any environment or terrain can be made detailed and interesting

You may have a point about the outdoor content. That's the thing with Blizzard though, they take ideas from other games and refine them and make them better as I'd imagine you're referring to FATEs which almost no one does. I could also say the artifact system looked at FF14's 'grind mindlessly' relics as well.

[leviathonlx]

High you literally compare a steppe to a a place called "high mountain"?
Then you compared one of the most hilly areas in WoW to a main hub city that is flat by design.
lol what

Alright I've come to the conclusion that what I'm referring to is going over most peoples heads here or my post is being cherry picked and so I'm done. A steppe isn't the reason why those tents (and buildings) are plopped down with no ground details either around them or in between them such as dirt paths to break up the grass texture (or doodads like small rocks) and look just plopped down by a designer. The 'city flat by design' had nothing to do with my image as well and instead was referring to the blending (which I'm pretty sure I said in my post) where you see a very flat rock just going into the ground with a odd shadow effect around it while WoW will blend things in. In the end textures and doodad details are what I'm referring to and are the difference between endless texture tiling and tiling being broken up or making towns look like they are actually lived in/used. Though for a main city hub that's a pretty badly detailed rock pillar in the first place. Anyway, this isn't really something worth the time to argue about.

[leviathonlx]

Its funny that you choose one of two nomadic towns in the game, who's lore is that they are nomads and they move a lot when they have too and they barely have time to settle in before they move as the example for a place that is not well lived in. There are quite a few examples you can use here, but unfortunately for you they are all beast tribe places and usually they do have the extra flourishes.

Here is a fun experiment: Find one other example of this to show me in any other expansion zone. Just one.

An example of what? Another rock or terrain doodad that isn't blended into the terrain, low detailed area or repeating textures? Also I'm pretty sure the lore for Reunion is that it's the one town that is permanent. Though yea I don't think Tamamizu is very detailed either. I don't think it'd be fair to look at Heavensward as the zone design in that expansion was terrible compared to ARR. (I did love the floating stair pillars/scaffolding in the Sea of Clouds (they must have bought them from the Ixal given how much they are everywhere in that dungeon) since making a new doodad that matches the area apparently would have made too much sense. Stormblood gives us extremely long repeating texture bridge pillars instead. Though I will say Kugane is pretty well done overall just like Ishgard.

[Sorrior]

You seem confused about what I'm referring to when I mention zone detail and why I'm not going to use stuff WoW released 10 years ago to compare to FF14 as it's only fair to use both games most recent expansions. Zone detail is referring to doodads that spice things up and break up monotony and also make it to things like repeating textures are not as noticeable. This can be leaves, trees, rocks, varied textures, more building variety, and other small details. And let's be honest here, Mexico is a beautiful country with plenty of variety and the American west has some of the most spectacular environments on the planet. Ala Mhigo wasn't a city leveled to the ground either so let's not try and pretend like all these structures are new as it's just a case of Square not spicing up the area (even ruins can be spiced up to look pretty neat). Just like their underwater areas are barebones places of copy pasted kelp and rocks. In the end any environment or terrain can be made detailed and interesting

You may have a point about the outdoor content. That's the thing with Blizzard though, they take ideas from other games and refine them and make them better as I'd imagine you're referring to FATEs which almost no one does. I could also say the artifact system looked at FF14's 'grind mindlessly' relics as well.

Wellll ffxiv stepped away from fates in favor of other stuff though they have hunts too and beast tribe quests.

And i was hesitant to use mexico due to how colorful the culture can be thus why i mentkoned certain areas of the us. I mean without decorations.

If ala mhigans are not an austere people then someday i bet we will see more colors added and variety but right now they haven't started redecorating if you will.

And you showed a picture of a city and compared it to a city while not mentionimg other stuff. Yes wow has ALOT going on that is part of it's artstyle but again you are comparing a very lived in elsborate culture to one that has been basically robbed of their right to express thenselves for decades.

- - - Updated - - -

Its funny that you choose one of two nomadic towns in the game, who's lore is that they are nomads and they move a lot when they have too and they barely have time to settle in before they move as the example for a place that is not well lived in. There are quite a few examples you can use here, but unfortunately for you they are all beast tribe places and usually they do have the extra flourishes.

Here is a fun experiment: Find one other example of this to show me in any other expansion zone. Just one.

I think i get what he is saying now but this in large part also comes down to aeethetics and design choices type thing.

[Wrecktangle]

@leviathonlx - I get what you are saying. Everything in FF14 feels like a template. Nothing feels handcrafted.

A lot of the content in WoW feels handcrafted especially the zone design (handcrafted doesn't always = good). It reminds me of Dark Souls in that there's nooks and crannys and secrets and danger and hazards. None of these things are present in FF14 zone design. Everything about it screams horizontal hallway (a la FF13).

I find myself really enjoying the world zones in Legion a lot. Broken Shore was by far my least favorite, but it also was probably the least boring zone they've done all expansion.

[leviathonlx]

@leviathonlx - I get what you are saying. Everything in FF14 feels like a template. Nothing feels handcrafted.

A lot of the content in WoW feels handcrafted especially the zone design (handcrafted doesn't always = good). It reminds me of Dark Souls in that there's nooks and crannys and secrets and danger and hazards. None of these things are present in FF14 zone design. Everything about it screams horizontal hallway (a la FF13).

I find myself really enjoying the world zones in Legion a lot. Broken Shore was by far my least favorite, but it also was probably the least boring zone they've done all expansion.

Yea pretty much. It does help that WoW using their tools to make mountains while FF14 uses actual doodads for their zone boundaries and any rock outcroppings in general. This has the effect of making repetition much more noticeable as a handcrafted mountain will be unique every time unlike mountains made from an assortment of doodads. One thing I hope for next expansion is that they can find a way to push away from the instanced zones and go to an open world like WoW so we can get more realistic looking zone design. The Lochs, for example, are so weird to me as you have this city sitting on a peninsula with this completely illogical mountain range along the peninsula's entire entrance. In the end I feel the main thing holding FF14 back is how Square is terrible at putting the money the game makes back into the game. Stormblood had a bigger budget than HW so hopefully the third expansion will have more than that.

[Berethos08]

An example of what? Another rock or terrain doodad that isn't blended into the terrain, low detailed area or repeating textures?

It's like you've forgotten how common those are in WoW.

Really, we could sit here and cherry pick examples of that from both games all day.

[Kazgrel]

It's like you've forgotten how common those are in WoW.

Really, we could sit here and cherry pick examples of that from both games all day.

I always got a giggle out of the doodad door in Naxx during early WotLK.

[Graeham]

In regards to world design, FFXIV wins for me every time when compared to WoW for one main reason: it respects itself enough to not make two major zones revolve around tacky movie references. Words cannot express how much I loathe what Blizzard did to Redridge and Uldum. At least FFXIV confines such ridiculousness to the Hildibrand quest chain...

Furthermore FFXIV revamped the game world during the transition between 1.0 and 2.0 in a tasteful manner. Blizzard, meanwhile, have completely crapped over the territories of certain playable races consistently ever since Cataclysm, with night elves arguably getting the worst deal of them all.

[Berethos08]

I always got a giggle out of the doodad door in Naxx during early WotLK.

The Doodad etcetcetc one?

Really though, both games do a lot more reusing of assets more than most of us notice unless we really go looking for it. Sometimes it's hidden better, sometimes it's not and ends up jumping out at you.

I'm a little amused at the examples leviathonlx used though in an earlier post, about doodads and leaves and textures (which are often stretched)...as those are among the most copy-pasted elements in that entire game. I mean, it is in both games, but it feels like only the newer zones in WoW really started to be more careful with placement (also, FFXIV does have more unique set-ups for certain things, especially when it comes to areas related to labor/professions, which is a bonus in my book).

Also at the complaint about Reunion not having worn paths...



Notice the well-worn areas in the grass. Also consider that it's a market area, and for the benefit of traders and merchants pesky annoyances like rocks and such were likely moved ages ago.

It's almost like the art team knows exactly what it's doing.

[Berethos08]

In regards to world design, FFXIV wins for me every time when compared to WoW for one main reason: it respects itself enough to not make two major zones revolve around tacky movie references. Words cannot express how much I loathe what Blizzard did to Redridge and Uldum.

I may not agree with you on Garlemald here or on the OF...

But you've 100% got my vote on this one.

Still not happy with how they handled those zones.

- - - Updated - - -

EDIT 2 - Also also, FF14 has some of the worst NPC names in the history of gaming. Solkwyb the Enlightened is one of the better ones, which is alarming.

FFXIV has one of the most thoroughly developed sets of lore for how names work for each race of any MMO I've yet seen, at least among the original works (LOTRO has the advantage of Tolkien's work to draw from when it comes to naming conventions).

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ng-Conventions

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...158#post979158

Some are influenced more than others by real world inspiration - the Raen Au Ra for example follow the conventions of a particular era in Japanese history, while the Xaela names are Mongolian inspired. Elezen names are largely French (though Wildwood and Duskwight no longer share surnames after their split following the fall of Gelmorra - some bad blood there). Sea Wolf Roegadyn names seem to have a Germanic origin for their inspiration, though I'm not familiar enough with the linguistic history of the area to know from what time period.

And the best part is their random name generator spits out names that actually follow the naming convention rules (versus the true gibberish that WoW's random name thing spits out).

[leviathonlx]

It's like you've forgotten how common those are in WoW.

Really, we could sit here and cherry pick examples of that from both games all day.

I've never denied WoW does it and every game does those things. It's just a matter of how noticeable it is and I find it far more noticeable in FF14 when compared to recent WoW expansions.

[Berethos08]

I've never denied WoW does it and every game does those things. It's just a matter of how noticeable it is and I find it far more noticeable in FF14 when compared to recent WoW expansions.

It's less a matter of how noticeable it is (it's actually quite noticeable in both games) and more how much leeway you're giving one game over the other (not going to get into how many of the images you used as examples show a clear bias in how the subject matter is presented or how some comparisons just don't work).

Start paying attention to how often ground textures repeat, or trees repeat, or doodads show up in an area. You might be surprised at how noticeable it really is.

Also, this is nitpicky, but the scaffold stairs in Sea of Clouds came first - they didn't reuse the assets from the dungeon as the dungeon wasn't added until patch 3.4. They are also different (spikes instead of rounded posts, lots of little details that are different, etc), and there's no stairs beyond a couple 3 or so step ones - it's all ramps. There's also how the design is clearly meant to match the aesthetic of the ones that put it there in the first place - the Ishgardians. Were you really expecting it to match the Vanu Vanu or something?

Honestly, this is what I meant by giving leeway to one game - you're apparently so quick to criticize FF14 on this that many of your criticisms don't hold up very well when examined.

[leviathonlx]

It's less a matter of how noticeable it is (it's actually quite noticeable in both games) and more how much leeway you're giving one game over the other (not going to get into how many of the images you used as examples show a clear bias in how the subject matter is presented or how some comparisons just don't work).

Start paying attention to how often ground textures repeat, or trees repeat, or doodads show up in an area. You might be surprised at how noticeable it really is.

Also, this is nitpicky, but the scaffold stairs in Sea of Clouds came first - they didn't reuse the assets from the dungeon as the dungeon wasn't added until patch 3.4. They are also different (spikes instead of rounded posts, lots of little details that are different, etc), and there's no stairs beyond a couple 3 or so step ones - it's all ramps. There's also how the design is clearly meant to match the aesthetic of the ones that put it there in the first place - the Ishgardians. Were you really expecting it to match the Vanu Vanu or something?

Honestly, this is what I meant by giving leeway to one game - you're apparently so quick to criticize FF14 on this that many of your criticisms don't hold up very well when examined.

I mean you're free to give doodad examples that are as outright noticeable as the same rock doodad being repeated 5 times in a row in a straight line facing the same exact direction each time. Also for the Sea of Clouds stairs I was poking fun at the fact that the pillars for the stairs were not actually resting on anything which looks really silly and like they weren't actually first designed for a zone like Sea of Clouds. For the Ixal instance I was poking fun at Squares tendency to make pillars be 100 miles long to get to the floor of something.

Ground texture repeating wise I actually have nothing bad to really say for most of Stormblood as they did actually improve there and designed most zones the way Blizzard and ANet do by breaking textures up. That was more an issue in Heavensward.

[Indigenously Abled]

FFXIV has an unforgivable delay in ability activation/resolution.

Example: Cast Benediction, it goes on cooldown, target dies without receiving the heal. It's a server tick thing, and it's a big reason for my giving the game a break after leveling every combat class to 50+ and 9 combat classes to 70, grinding out lolMentor, and playing with a fairly successful guild. Left in October after the patch hit to play Legion, after skipping the entire first part of the expansion.

[Graeham]

I may not agree with you on Garlemald here or on the OF...

But you've 100% got my vote on this one.

Still not happy with how they handled those zones.

It pretty much killed my enthusiasm for WoW. It just became a completely different game to me after WOTLK ended. A couple of friends still play it and keep me informed of what is going on and I just sort of scratch my head wondering why on earth the developers would destroy stuff that made the game so memorable in the first place. I think part of it may simply be due to WoW existing for so long and no longer having the same team that it did back in the early days.

Speaking of Garlemald, though...to tie in with your point about zone design there's actually a rusty Garlean airship within the Sirensong Sea. It's exactly that sort of attention to detail that makes me love the environmental design in FFXIV. There's also a shard of Dalamud embedded in The Aery.

[dope_danny]

More tummy.

This is the ideal Elezenn form, you may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like.

[Melsiren]

I caused this, I caused this when I called Lalafel potatoes.


PS, they are still potatoes.

[Mephet]

FF 14 always felt like a more 'living' game than WoW does. Like as a character I felt like I was doing things in the world that mattered, NPC would acknowledge things I had done to help them and that made me feel good. Never really got that feeling in WoW.