Pantheon Trinkets

[Zyky]

My guess it drops on your first Argus kill (personal loot based on loot spec) - then it takes 12 weeks to upgrade to ilvl 1000. Then either:

A) there is a quest that pops when you finish upgrading it that has you do some stuff that then upgrades it to Aman'Thul's Vision OR
B) there is an RNG drop (possibly guaranteed on a Mythic Argus kill) that when combined with a fully upgraded trinket it can be turned in for Aman'Thul's Vision.

Thing is Aman'thul's Vision is actually worse for -most- specs than the normal Pantheon trinkets at 1000ilv1000il. For example I know once Golganneth gets upgraded to 975 for Demon Hunter it's better than Aman'thul I know its basically the same for Affliction and all 3 mage specs too.

[Teaon]

i am actually more worried about Aman'thul than the Pantheon trinkets.

i mean the leggo trinket is actually Arcano on steriods, who doesn't want that?

[Spotnick]

i am actually more worried about Aman'thul than the Pantheon trinkets.

i mean the leggo trinket is actually Arcano on steriods, who doesn't want that?

Mistweavers say hello.

2 out of 4 stats on there are shit for us, that's why Arcanocrystal is not good for us either.

At least it does have versatility this time..unlike Velen's.

[Dracodraco]

Mistweavers say hello.

2 out of 4 stats on there are shit for us, that's why Arcanocrystal is not good for us either.

At least it does have versatility this time..unlike Velen's.

Yea but then, who uses mistweavers <______<.

For DPS, it's going to be huge for most classes that scale well with secondaries; Hunters (both specs), affliction locks, shadow priests, boomkins, warriors come to mind. For healers, same deal - scale well with secondaries, it'll be fucking hot. That being said, the main issue at hand isn't that it's too strong for DPS specs; It's that ATM all of the trinkets in there looks like complete garbage for atleast the physical DPS classes. As a hunter, the highest rated trinket in the raid is the shadow-singed "statstick" that has seperate chances to proc both passive agi and crit, and even that one is worse than a normal statstick of any kind, to the extent that I need a 960 shadow-singed to replace a 935 haste statstick (haste not even being my best stat, mind you).

Well we can rule out 2 things:
- it wont be a normal drop, else they wouldnt have said we'll find out how it drops and would have been a drop like everything else.
- it wont drop only in hc/mythic, that would be a first ever, and they already had too many people whining because lfr doesnt drop certain thngs, they wont give these trinkets just to mythic/hc raiders.

As for the trinket not being tied to mythic because people would whine, I'm obviously biased but I think that's just a silly reasoning. People are going to whine no matter HOW it drops, if it isn't "everyone gets one". It's also not "the first time ever" items are only on mythic; Ra-Den and Sinestra, being mythic only bosses, had entire loot tables (with BiS items, such as the wannabe-promises trinket from Sinestra) that were not released to heroic/LFR. Likewise, while it was *available* in flex/normal, garrosh heirlooms were GUARANTEED after a certain point in heroic (now mythic) on your first kill - that was a later addition though, but either way, same concept.

[Rotted]

Last I heard the trinkets were personal loot only, like the heirlooms from garrosh in soo.

Never heard that and as of this Q&A they're not telling us, so unless someone can get me a source this whole situation just sucks rust encrusted metal spiked donkey testicles.

Like, i've been all over, this site, wowhead, everywhere and no one seems to know about the drops.

I'm pretty sure Aktec is correct, it was on a blue post a while back

[Tradu]

Yea because the journal loot table has always been a super reliable tool for information like this.
Again, the trinkets likely won't even drop normally, because the boss has a gigantic loot table, and if they're actual drops, it'd take a month just to cycle through each trinket at an average rate, and you'd get 6 tank trinkets by the time all your str users had one, wasting 4 (on average). I'd be very fucking surprised if they're stupid enough to give every single raider a free legendary from normal mode.

Realistically, these are the various options for the legendary trinket:

1: Gotta do something special during encounter (think Chosen - maybe everyone gets a buff on the first pull of the boss per week, and loses it when they die. Gotta stay alive through the encounter to get the trinket).

2: Normal drop. This would be fucking terrible as it's really not controlable which guild gets to have a few extra third legendaries.

3: Personal drop. Same as above.

4: It's a reward from killing the boss on mythic for the first time (same as the normal trinkets are likely a reward for killing the boss on heroic for the first time). IMO this would make sense as that means there's zero interference with progress from random legendary drops, and the entire raid going to lvl 1000 arcanocrystals with wildcard pantheon procs from one week to the next is a huge effective nerf that will help rekills/farm *instantly*, rather than having to spend hours upon hours trying to get another perfect pull like you did on KJ. Considering it's the last tier and burnout is one of the most cited issues from high end raiders, this would hit the nail on the fucking head - when progress is over, shit's done. Instead of having to wait for Blizzard to implement it, he'd have his own inbuilt "nerf" if you can kill him once, and then you're golden.

That specific "special" thing wouldn't really work, considering one of the core mechanics of Argus is dying.

- - - Updated - - -

Thing is Aman'thul's Vision is actually worse for -most- specs than the normal Pantheon trinkets at 1000ilv1000il. For example I know once Golganneth gets upgraded to 975 for Demon Hunter it's better than Aman'thul I know its basically the same for Affliction and all 3 mage specs too.

For Arcane and Havoc they're equal at 1k/995 ilevel respectively, for all the other specs you mentioned Aman'thul is better than any ilevel of Norgannon.

[Dracodraco]

[QUOTE=Tradu;48106388]That specific "special" thing wouldn't really work, considering one of the core mechanics of Argus is dying.

/QUOTE]

Sure, but it was as said an example - everyone gets killed by the roleplay, but maybe you can't get killed and ressurected by the tree in the last phase, etc; Won't really know for sure. Point was that it's entirely possible for them to have put something stupid like that into the game, and we saw it the most recent with Chosen.

[Enentari]

i mean the leggo trinket is actually Arcano on steriods, who doesn't want that?

Pretty much everyone doesn't want that when their regular titan trinket gets to 1000 ilv (even 960 970 for certain spec).

Before that, any spec who has Arcano BIS will love this

[Aktec]

ion literally said last interview its a secret till raid comes out

Yeah I posted that 30 mins before the last Q&A but still think its gonna be personal, the boss has a huge loot table and would be so unrealiable and rng based otherwise. So I'm guessing its a seperate personal loot roll than the actual loot from the boss. But then again this is Legion so don't bet against the rng.

[Jastall]

ion literally said last interview its a secret till raid comes out

Yeah, but what other option is there? They're either drops, personal loot, or maybe part of a quest which would be kind of weird since we already get a legendary for killing Argus.

As for making them only drop in Mythic: ya'll are dreaming. Not only are they already listed in Argus's loot table in the dungeon journal, Blizzard would never, ever do that, locking so much player power only for the 2% (being generous) who will clear Mythic is not how things are done these days, and for a good reason. The playerbase would also roast them for it. Let Mythic players get the other unique stuff. If the class trinket in HFC were from normal+ I see no reason for these not to be.

[Nnyco]

Yeah, but what other option is there? They're either drops, personal loot, or maybe part of a quest which would be kind of weird since we already get a legendary for killing Argus.

As for making them only drop in Mythic: ya'll are dreaming. Not only are they already listed in Argus's loot table in the dungeon journal, Blizzard would never, ever do that, locking so much player power only for the 2% (being generous) who will clear Mythic is not how things are done these days, and for a good reason. The playerbase would also roast them for it. Let Mythic players get the other unique stuff. If the class trinket in HFC were from normal+ I see no reason for these not to be.

i doubt its a mythic drop or 2%, maybe gonna be a quest chain or just plain personal loot imo, but we have to wait to find out

[Dracodraco]

Yeah, but what other option is there? They're either drops, personal loot, or maybe part of a quest which would be kind of weird since we already get a legendary for killing Argus.

As for making them only drop in Mythic: ya'll are dreaming. Not only are they already listed in Argus's loot table in the dungeon journal, Blizzard would never, ever do that, locking so much player power only for the 2% (being generous) who will clear Mythic is not how things are done these days, and for a good reason. The playerbase would also roast them for it. Let Mythic players get the other unique stuff. If the class trinket in HFC were from normal+ I see no reason for these not to be.

Bolded part - everyone else would have an alternative. Their normal trinket which they'd get to upgrade untill it becomes as strong/almost as strong as the legendary; It's not really "locked" player power just because they can't obtain it when there's a slower alternative.

As for stuff being listed in the loot table, I already touched on that once; It's really not a very good indicator of how things will work. If you actually think they're going to have a boss that drops a max of 7 items on heroic, with a 27-item loot table, then yea OK good luck with that. You're literally going to spend an entire month's worth of resets to have seen one of each trinket. Tank trinkets would be so abundant you can't even pawn them off while DPS are stuck with nothing after half a year.

[Alvito]

Last I heard the trinkets were personal loot only, like the heirlooms from garrosh in soo.

The legendary is like that the others and the item to boost their item level is not.

[Jastall]

Bolded part - everyone else would have an alternative. Their normal trinket which they'd get to upgrade untill it becomes as strong/almost as strong as the legendary; It's not really "locked" player power just because they can't obtain it when there's a slower alternative.

As for stuff being listed in the loot table, I already touched on that once; It's really not a very good indicator of how things will work. If you actually think they're going to have a boss that drops a max of 7 items on heroic, with a 27-item loot table, then yea OK good luck with that. You're literally going to spend an entire month's worth of resets to have seen one of each trinket. Tank trinkets would be so abundant you can't even pawn them off while DPS are stuck with nothing after half a year.

It is locked player power. For some specs Aman'Thul's is going to be the best trinket, period. What does limiting it to Mythic accomplishes, exactly?

The loot table issue is obviously resolved by them being personal loot, or perhaps part of a special Normal+ quest. Actual power boosting items being reserved for the very highest difficulty hasn't happened since, what, Wrath? Even ye olde Legendaries were available from lower difficulties. Exclusive Heroic/Mythic raiding rewards have always been cosmetic as they should be.

[Dracodraco]

It is locked player power. For some specs Aman'Thul's is going to be the best trinket, period. What does limiting it to Mythic accomplishes, exactly?

The loot table issue is obviously resolved by them being personal loot, or perhaps part of a special Normal+ quest. Actual power boosting items being reserved for the very highest difficulty hasn't happened since, what, Wrath? Even ye olde Legendaries were available from lower difficulties. Exclusive Heroic/Mythic raiding rewards have always been cosmetic as they should be.

MOP, Ra Den had lots of bis gear. Sinestra if you go back to Cata. It certainly hasn't been as long as wrath. I mentioned that earlier as well :s.

[Jastall]

MOP, Ra Den had lots of bis gear. Sinestra if you go back to Cata. It certainly hasn't been as long as wrath. I mentioned that earlier as well :s.

These were unique bosses (also available in 10H which was far more accessible than Mythic is). I don't recall a time where a specific item in a boss's loot table was made Mythic-equivalent only for the sake of it.

Still haven't explained what is gained from that either.

[Dracodraco]

These were unique bosses (also available in 10H which was far more accessible than Mythic is). I don't recall a time where a specific item in a boss's loot table was made Mythic-equivalent only for the sake of it.

Still haven't explained what is gained from that either.

That it hasn't been done before isn't a super good reason that they won't attempt it at some point though :P.

As for what's gained? I did say that before; If it was a "kill on mythic, get trinket"-sort of deal, the entire raid would see an instant performance boost going from half upgraded normal trinkets to 1000 arcano's and a much higher pantheon uptime due to having all wildcards. That's an instant buff to the raid after you're done with progress - something that people really need when the biggest guild-killer ATM is burnout, and farming is literally useless outside of keeping a guild together (because you're not prepping for the next tier). An instant buff that only affects guilds that are on farm seems like a great idea that won't affect people progressing, IMO.

[Jastall]

That it hasn't been done before isn't a super good reason that they won't attempt it at some point though :P.

As for what's gained? I did say that before; If it was a "kill on mythic, get trinket"-sort of deal, the entire raid would see an instant performance boost going from half upgraded normal trinkets to 1000 arcano's and a much higher pantheon uptime due to having all wildcards. That's an instant buff to the raid after you're done with progress - something that people really need when the biggest guild-killer ATM is burnout, and farming is literally useless outside of keeping a guild together (because you're not prepping for the next tier). An instant buff that only affects guilds that are on farm seems like a great idea that won't affect people progressing, IMO.

I can think of a hundred ways to do that better, starting with, say, an item that upgrades the normal trinkets more effectively (or gives them a higher ilvl cap), a higher drop rate on said trinkets, or just giving the raid a 5% buff to all stats once they earn Cutting Edge or some shit. Not sure making farm even easier will really do much for burnout anyway, especially given that not all guilds kill the final boss early enough for long-term farm burnout to be a problem in the first place.

Regardless, Blizzard won't do it. Did you not see the playerbase's outrage at how legendaries worked? Now put arguably the best and most versatile one behind Cutting Edge? That's way too much drama created for an extremely marginal gain. Us raiders have enough special toys as it is.

[Keltas]

I can think of a hundred ways to do that better, starting with, say, an item that upgrades the normal trinkets more effectively (or gives them a higher ilvl cap), a higher drop rate on said trinkets, or just giving the raid a 5% buff to all stats once they earn Cutting Edge or some shit. Not sure making farm even easier will really do much for burnout anyway, especially given that not all guilds kill the final boss early enough for long-term farm burnout to be a problem in the first place.

Regardless, Blizzard won't do it. Did you not see the playerbase's outrage at how legendaries worked? Now put arguably the best and most versatile one behind Cutting Edge? That's way too much drama created for an extremely marginal gain. Us raiders have enough special toys as it is.

They could easily be testing the waters to see the impact of legendaries on mythic final bosses, as an incentive for future raids.

[Deleted]

Stop being stupid, chances they put that on mythic only are like 0.0%. There's nothing to test, its not like people dont raid mythic because they dont have incentives. People dont raid mythic because a) you need to schedule your life around a game (4 evenings per week/3 hours each), b) not suck c) deal with shit you dont wanna deal with in a game. Mythic is a niche, and will always be a smaller one, since videogamers these days dont want to put up with bullshit, they want things fast, and they are willing to put up an effort only if its rewarded, and mythic scene doesnt give rewards, even method pulls smaller numbers than dota/hs.

Mythic scene gets smaller by the day, more servers are always being linked, Blizz even had to acknowledge that they need cross realm open earlier, those all signs.