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  1. #141
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    We need bard!
    .

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by My User Name View Post
    We have enough classes already, ffs.
    This.

    /char

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post
    We need bard!
    It would be pretty hard to introduce a bard with no established Bard presence in WoW outside of a couple of unrelated NPCs.

  4. #144
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiradyn View Post
    Yeah, but the actual concept of the Demon Hunter was never incorporated into those classes. Those classes just housed a few of its spells. So while Rogues had evasion, they were never going to transform into demons or surround themselves with fire. Same deal with Priests.
    Rogues got Warglaives in BC, and I remember Teriz saying quite passionately that Demon Hunters would trample over rogue gameplay.

    Blizzard has actually stated that when they created the DK class, they incorporated the Necromancer into it. That's pretty much the end of the story.
    And yet there's still plenty of room for Necromancers to exist without stepping on the toes of DKs.

    More than likely for class balance and spec differentiation. Nothing stops Blizzard from bringing those concepts back in future expansions if the class needs it. As it stands, it would appear that Unholy is the spec focusing on undead minions and other Necromancer stuff. It would be pretty redundant to try to carve an entirely different class when we have one class utilizing the theme (DKs), and another class utilizing the function (Demo Warlocks).
    Most of what I'm talking about was cut in the Cataclysm prepatch, actually. We've seen zero indication that these elements will be brought back.

    Unholy's actually a thematic clusterfuck right now. They're tied between three separate fantasies and they're not really delivering on any of those. Beyond that, how many light-users do we have? How many dual-wielding agile melee do we have? With regard to function, can there only be one summoner spec? I mean, ignoring for a moment the number of Necromancer pitches that change things up mechanically from existing Demonology, how many stealth bleed specs do we have, for example?

  5. #145
    If Tinkerer can be a class, with engineering in game, then I present the following class options:
    Tinkerer (I'll be fair, I did really like tactician in Rift)
    Necromancer
    Blood Mage
    Shadow Mage
    Shadow Hunter
    Geomancer
    Twilight Mage?
    Battle Mage

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Rogues got Warglaives in BC, and I remember Teriz saying quite passionately that Demon Hunters would trample over rogue gameplay.
    No they didn't. Every melee class could equip the blades of Azzinoth. Those weren't exclusively Rogue weapons.


    And yet there's still plenty of room for Necromancers to exist without stepping on the toes of DKs.
    In your opinion.

    Unless you can create a Necromancer that doesn't summon ghouls, skeletons, abominations, zombies, gargoyles, etc. you're going to be stepping on the toes of DKs (and Warlocks).

    Most of what I'm talking about was cut in the Cataclysm prepatch, actually. We've seen zero indication that these elements will be brought back.

    Unholy's actually a thematic clusterfuck right now. They're tied between three separate fantasies and they're not really delivering on any of those. Beyond that, how many light-users do we have? How many dual-wielding agile melee do we have? With regard to function, can there only be one summoner spec? I mean, ignoring for a moment the number of Necromancer pitches that change things up mechanically from existing Demonology, how many stealth bleed specs do we have, for example?
    Again, this is simply your opinion.

    Essentially your entire argument here revolves around your personal belief of what a Necromancer in WoW should be instead of how Blizzard incorporated the Necromancer into the DK class. Simply because YOU don't like the direction the DK is going doesn't mean that there should be a new class that strips flavor away from two existing classes.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    If Tinkerer can be a class, with engineering in game, then I present the following class options:
    Tinkerer (I'll be fair, I did really like tactician in Rift)
    Necromancer
    Blood Mage
    Shadow Mage
    Shadow Hunter
    Geomancer
    Twilight Mage?
    Battle Mage
    When did Engineering become a class?

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Joker of Muerte View Post
    aw not this topic again ...
    least it's not high elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Illidari View Post
    When did Engineering become a class?
    When people wanted Gnomes and Goblins to have the spotlight.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    When people wanted Gnomes and Goblins to have the spotlight.
    That still doesn't make Engineering a class.

    I always viewed the professions as expressions of WC3s item system. The Tinker was a hero, not an item vendor.

  10. #150
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiradyn View Post
    It would be pretty hard to introduce a bard with no established Bard presence in WoW outside of a couple of unrelated NPCs.
    We could said the same about pandas.
    .

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post
    We could said the same about pandas.
    Pandas were established in WC3, were rumored to be a playable race since vanilla WoW, and there was a rumored Pandaria expansion floating around since WoW launched.

    If you have some huge Bard lore that I'm unaware of, please share.

  12. #152
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiradyn View Post
    No they didn't. Every melee class could equip the blades of Azzinoth. Those weren't exclusively Rogue weapons.
    I wasn't aware that Enh, Feral, Ret, etc. could all equip Warglaives. I thought it was just Warriors and Rogues, one of which had a DH spell, and was somewhat similar to what most players envisioned playstyle-wise.

    In your opinion.

    Unless you can create a Necromancer that doesn't summon ghouls, skeletons, abominations, zombies, gargoyles, etc. you're going to be stepping on the toes of DKs (and Warlocks).
    This actually isn't a matter of opinion. You're just flat-out wrong here. Is the problem the magic school? Multiple classes overlap in magical schools. Is it the rough mechanics? Again, there are multiple ways to separate Necromancer from Warlock, that's not an opinion. Beyond that, again, how many agile, dual-wielding melee do we have? How many stealth bleed specs do we have?

    Essentially your entire argument here revolves around your personal belief of what a Necromancer in WoW should be instead of how Blizzard incorporated the Necromancer into the DK class. Simply because YOU don't like the direction the DK is going doesn't mean that there should be a new class that strips flavor away from two existing classes.
    No, I'm sorry but this is a bullshit argument and you should feel embarrassed for posting it. This isn't me pitching "pie-in-the-sky" ideas out of left field. This is me saying that there are enough thematic elements that are either completely untouched and/or not in use anymore that could easily create a distinct class which would be no different in terms of overlap than what already exists.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    I wasn't aware that Enh, Feral, Ret, etc. could all equip Warglaives. I thought it was just Warriors and Rogues, one of which had a DH spell, and was somewhat similar to what most players envisioned playstyle-wise.
    Does this argument somehow negate my point that the ability to equip the Blades of Azzinoth was not a Rogue-exclusive ability?

    Didn't think so.

    This actually isn't a matter of opinion. You're just flat-out wrong here. Is the problem the magic school? Multiple classes overlap in magical schools. Is it the rough mechanics? Again, there are multiple ways to separate Necromancer from Warlock, that's not an opinion. Beyond that, again, how many agile, dual-wielding melee do we have? How many stealth bleed specs do we have?
    Except it is your opinion. Again, your entire argument here is that you feel that the DK isn't "necromancer enough" when in fact Blizzard has been pushing aspects of the DK class further into Necromancer territory. You simply don't like how its turning out.

    You're reaching Teriz levels of obsession here, and its pretty sad to watch.

    No, I'm sorry but this is a bullshit argument and you should feel embarrassed for posting it. This isn't me pitching "pie-in-the-sky" ideas out of left field. This is me saying that there are enough thematic elements that are either completely untouched and/or not in use anymore that could easily create a distinct class which would be no different in terms of overlap than what already exists.
    The only bullshit argument here is you thinking that there's "tons of thematic elements available" when you have no idea where Blizzard is going to take the class next, or how Blizzard interprets how a Necromancer in WoW is supposed to operate. Nothing stops Blizzard from taking Unholy into a completely Necromancer-based direction since the Necromancer concept was purposed incorporated into the class in the first place. However, its doubtful they're going to do that since they clearly want to leave some design space for Demonology warlocks.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiradyn View Post
    Does this argument somehow negate my point that the ability to equip the Blades of Azzinoth was not a Rogue-exclusive ability?
    Didn't think so.
    So given the choice between being wrong, and arguing against a claim that was never made, you're going to choose the latter? Interesting.

    Except it is your opinion. Again, your entire argument here is that you feel that the DK isn't "necromancer enough" when in fact Blizzard has been pushing aspects of the DK class further into Necromancer territory. You simply don't like how its turning out.
    Can you find where I've said that Death Knights aren't "Necromancer enough?" I've only ever stated that there are a number of canonical themes that we've not seen touched by Death Knights and plenty more that have been scrapped from the class.

    I've never said I dislike the state of Death Knights, or that they're not close enough to Necromancers for my personal tastes. Only that there is existing material to create a new class that wouldn't break precedent in terms of overlap.

    You're trying to pretend that my position here is based on personal whims, desires and feelings. Get a grip, dude.

    The only bullshit argument here is you thinking that there's "tons of thematic elements available" when you have no idea where Blizzard is going to take the class next,
    No, I don't, neither do you. Do you actually think this is even a remotely intelligent thing to say? God, this is laughable. Yes of course we don't know where Blizzard is taking the class. According to your "logic" here, we should refrain from discussing potential classes entirely because we simply don't know where existing classes are going or how Blizzard interprets these classes.

    0/10 in this part. That was just ridiculously terrible.

  15. #155
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    I would like to see a bard/musical themed healer myself, but I guess WoW isnt really high fantasy so it may not fit in very well, but I personally would love to see it in some way.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Challenge View Post
    And thats the tinker. The mechanical theme is something we dont have in a class yet, and tinkers could be worked to be tank, healer, and ranged/melee DPS to whatever the dev team wants.

    The only argument against it is engineer as a professional
    There should be no new classes.
    Instead they should add 1 spec for each (or some) classes, except druids. Ranged dps spec for Demon Hunters, tank spec for shaman, healing spec for mages, tank spec for warlocks, ranged dps spec for paladins etc. The possibilities are next to endless.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    So given the choice between being wrong, and arguing against a claim that was never made, you're going to choose the latter? Interesting.
    So why did you bring up the Blades of Azzinoth in the first place?

    Can you find where I've said that Death Knights aren't "Necromancer enough?" I've only ever stated that there are a number of canonical themes that we've not seen touched by Death Knights and plenty more that have been scrapped from the class.

    I've never said I dislike the state of Death Knights, or that they're not close enough to Necromancers for my personal tastes. Only that there is existing material to create a new class that wouldn't break precedent in terms of overlap.

    You're trying to pretend that my position here is based on personal whims, desires and feelings. Get a grip, dude.
    Alright then, if the DK fulfills the Necromancer fantasy to a satisfactory level, what's the point of adding a Necromancer class?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Abradford13 View Post
    I would like to see a bard/musical themed healer myself, but I guess WoW isnt really high fantasy so it may not fit in very well, but I personally would love to see it in some way.
    Probably as a profession honestly. It would be very difficult to create an expansion with a theme where the Bard could be introduced.

  18. #158
    Void expansion. We combat the whispers of the voidlords with HEAVY METAL.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcbenchpress View Post
    A ranged tank would only work if they never designed a boss with a cleaving mechanic, front cone, beam or proximity mechanic ever again.
    I agree. Uhm no wait, about the ranged tank, there could be a solution to the "the boss usually wants to run towards you" problem... the hypotetical class would have a pet/minion holding the boss in melee range, and the player (always targetting the boss like a normal tank, no need to target the minion) would stay back using the tank skills through the pet, and eventually "shooting" it the buffs or heals or whatever. I think it's not totally bonkers, as a idea... just 70% XD but would need a serious developement and it has a basic flaws (maybe it can be solved, i dunno): the movement. I mean, how to move the tank minion when needed? with a command like the pet/minion of hunters and locks?

  20. #160
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Abradford13 View Post
    I would like to see a bard/musical themed healer myself, but I guess WoW isnt really high fantasy so it may not fit in very well, but I personally would love to see it in some way.
    Found in a lot of fantasy settings, but somehow feel to 'un-wow' for it to happen. Wouldn't mind it though, but specs and weapons can get complicated.

    Regarding tinker, I've alwasy been a big fan, would be the only reason I would ever to drop my 13 year old main. But even though I can still see it happen, I'm not to sure if it would still make sense. New classes tend to be very heavily tied to the expansion content, so unless we get a industrial revolution expansion I can't really see it happen anytime soon.

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