How Classic Must Be

[Alienshroom]

Great rebuttal

Keep shaking that rattle after being proven wrong lmao. sad and weak

[Aphrel]

-Patch 1.12.2 - The last patch before BC

-No QoL additions

-No Class balance changes

-Only bug fixes

-Nothing else

-Preserve that patch exactly as it was. No additions. No subtractions.


Also no BC servers. Server(s) exist as an alternative to live.
You pay the same sub and can choose which one to play on each time you log in.

The buffed bluegear will make mc/bwl/zg a joke. The new pvp armor sets that came in wichever late patch will be insane compared to raid rewards.
Or do you intend to have aq/naxx open on release?

[reppeh]

I hope they put LFR into classic!

[Flarelaine]

I want classic to be classic. Bugs and all.

I want bugs in Vanilla as well, preferably in Silithus.

[Dudas]

I personally don't think a static server is what most people would enjoy for a long time. Sure you might have to wait for naxx, but then if everything was given to you from the start, you might not appresiate things when they arrive. Vanilla is again about going on a journey, sometimes to the unknown. Hopefully Vanilla can give that experience again for the people interested.

They don't make this for people to enjoy and progress and wait for patches. They make this for nostalgia. You want to wipe in Stratholme for 3 hours? Go do it. You still have to wait 4 months to gear 8 tanks for horsemen in Naxx. Even if they release it in version 1.12 you will still grind months just to level. And more months to get the gear to do naxx. Find 39 people that want the same thing as you and go do it. No one should bother with your meaningless requests like progression and patches, which are a complete waste of time and money for blizzard.

[urasim]

He proberly did play Classic and even if he did not, it does not really harm or benifit his opinion

Wanting a replicate of the Nost server is also an alright thing to ask for, it just have to be compared to the other options.

I personally don't think a static server is what most people would enjoy for a long time. Sure you might have to wait for naxx, but then if everything was given to you from the start, you might not appresiate things when they arrive. Vanilla is again about going on a journey, sometimes to the unknown. Hopefully Vanilla can give that experience again for the people interested.

People's opinions do in fact influence Blizzard. If there are enough people who never experienced classic, who then start influencing their design choices, it leads to a bad experience for the people that remember it fondly. Like asking for 1.12 to start the game. You've even listed several example of changes that they'd never get to experience if they jumped straight to the end. Which makes me think he's a nost player if he's asking for that.

[Deleted]

I’m all for the classic experience and the game it used to be but I don’t think that should exclude a few improvements that have been made to the client along the way.
I’d like to see full battle.net integration complete with realid invites and chat functions.
I’d like to see achievements, what’s the harm in adding them to the classic experience?

I’d like to atleast be able to collect transmog appearances but I’m less inclined to think I’ll get this. Over the years I’ve lost many once treasured now virtually unobtainable items just to things like needing bank space.

Lets have a classic game experience but throw th a modern lens and gateway. After all I don’t think even the diehard purists will expect it to not be on the battle.net app and automatically update when required. Today’s tech, yesterday’s game.

[Flurryfang]

They don't make this for people to enjoy and progress and wait for patches. They make this for nostalgia. You want to wipe in Stratholme for 3 hours? Go do it. You still have to wait 4 months to gear 8 tanks for horsemen in Naxx. Even if they release it in version 1.12 you will still grind months just to level. And more months to get the gear to do naxx. Find 39 people that want the same thing as you and go do it. No one should bother with your meaningless requests like progression and patches, which are a complete waste of time and money for blizzard.

If progression and patches is what keeps me and others playing, it is far from waste of time and money, it is actually the opposite. You mention 4 months here as the number required for people to beat 4 horsemen, but as a subscriber for the classic server, are you really ready to let it end at that? To have your experience last 4 months before it reaches its peak and dies out? Maybe you would, but i dare say, that Blizzard would look at that as a waste of time and money if the playerbase only lasted that long.

Giving the players everything is gonna work for some people, but others are gonna get completly overwhelmed, grind it out too quickly or simply disturb the idea of what they wanted out of Classic. I, for example, would like to take the Vanilla Journey again, where i met content as it came out and slowly hit the required peak for the next source of content. I am not looking for a short burn of content, i am looking for a long slow burn, that can hopefully keep me occupied for 1-2 years when i don't have anything to do in BFA.

Try to see it like this: Sometimes the journey of an evergrowing game is actually more fun than playing a game, that has already grown to its max

[Tarba]

Vanila was great for many reasons. The most important was the server community. Not completely filed with morons. That's why I have no hope for that vanilla wow. The vanilla purists I see on all those topics are so freaking edgy, allways complaining about anything that is said by anyone. We had those guys back then too, lots of drama, but they were just a part. All I see here, is morons allready complaining and ready to complain about what will happen, no matter what.

You know what I would like about that Vanilla? Not Vanilla, not a patch from it. A new vanilla. A vanilla where specs are improved to be viable. A vanilla where you could be surprised for a new content. And not that vanilla patch 1.x because "I won't say it but that class and spec was broken and I plan to play it". I don't want to see a vanilla 1.x where I have to watch on internet wich spec was garbage and wich was op. I wan't a new vanilla, a vanilla strawberry. A vanilla for its ambiance, its grind, its difficulty. And also its misteries and novelties. Not because "I could stun kill a mage with my rogue lol".

[Dudas]

If progression and patches is what keeps me and others playing, it is far from waste of time and money, it is actually the opposite. You mention 4 months here as the number required for people to beat 4 horsemen, but as a subscriber for the classic server, are you really ready to let it end at that? To have your experience last 4 months before it reaches its peak and dies out? Maybe you would, but i dare say, that Blizzard would look at that as a waste of time and money if the playerbase only lasted that long.

Giving the players everything is gonna work for some people, but others are gonna get completly overwhelmed, grind it out too quickly or simply disturb the idea of what they wanted out of Classic. I, for example, would like to take the Vanilla Journey again, where i met content as it came out and slowly hit the required peak for the next source of content. I am not looking for a short burn of content, i am looking for a long slow burn, that can hopefully keep me occupied for 1-2 years when i don't have anything to do in BFA.

Try to see it like this: Sometimes the journey of an evergrowing game is actually more fun than playing a game, that has already grown to its max

Do you really think blizzard will "MAKE MONEY $$$$" from these vanilla servers? Do you really think they will live with your 20k/30k subscribers? Sure there will be the boom at launch. But after they realise the amount of time you need to level more than 50% will cancel subscription. After that some more months will pass and the raiding/guild dramas will start when 40 people raid for 3 items/boss. So guild disbands and stuff like that will start popping. People will quit again. By the end it will be left only with "purists" who will have their server with low population and no Qol changes that would've kept more people in the long term if there were there.

My solution to all you purists is to send you all on an isolated island and watch your endless grind for lumber so you can have your little fire in the woods like the simpletons you are if that is trully fun for you.

[Flurryfang]

People's opinions do in fact influence Blizzard. If there are enough people who never experienced classic, who then start influencing their design choices, it leads to a bad experience for the people that remember it fondly. Like asking for 1.12 to start the game. You've even listed several example of changes that they'd never get to experience if they jumped straight to the end. Which makes me think he's a nost player if he's asking for that.

Well, is there really anything wrong in that people who want to play the game get to influence it, no matter their previous experience? Like if 60% of the Classic playerbase want something yet have not played Vanilla, are they not in their right to want that change from Blizzard. I get that people should be informed, but what i have learned from these last month of forum posts about Classic, half of the Vanilla players can't even remember how it was back then anyway, so there is not much difference between an old school Vanilla player and an aspiring Classic player, who have only seen Vanilla through Youtube videos, WoWWiki sides and patch notes.

I can only say, that i would personally prefer to experience the opening of AQ and Naxx once more, and to see players try to grind to High Warlord.... But if the potential majority of the Classic playerbase would rather be without them, well then i can really fault Blizzard for following that idea, now that they have said, that the community rules when it comes to Classic design.

In the end, i think that if you want to play Classic, you should be allowed to have a voice, even if you were not a Vanilla player or if you have not been fighting for Vanilla with the Nostalgia crew. I hope Blizzard is trying to make a version of Vanilla that appeals to not only super fanatical Vanilla players, but also a new crowd of players, who might have only experienced it through watching friends or looking at Youtube videos.

[Dudas]

and to see players try to grind to High Warlord...

Just that it has never been a solo grind. It was account sharing with your highschool buddies so you can cover a 24/7 pvp grind so you could be the one account, even though there were 5 of you edgy teens farming nonstop.

Plus having only one High Warlord is the clear example of how stupid that is. An army doesn't have only one general. Yes you have one president/king but when it comes to wars he has dozens of generals that he takes input from. And ingame that's what you grind for: a military title. So you need more High Warlods at the table.

Make it hard to get. I completely agree. But not unobtainable like it was for a normal dedicated grinder that had to compete with an account that was farmed by 5 others.

[Flurryfang]

Do you really think blizzard will "MAKE MONEY $$$$" from these vanilla servers? Do you really think they will live with your 20k/30k subscribers? Sure there will be the boom at launch. But after they realise the amount of time you need to level more than 50% will cancel subscription. After that some more months will pass and the raiding/guild dramas will start when 40 people raid for 3 items/boss. So guild disbands and stuff like that will start popping. People will quit again. By the end it will be left only with "purists" who will have their server with low population and no Qol changes that would've kept more people in the long term if there were there.

My solution to all you purists is to send you all on an isolated island and watch your endless grind for lumber so you can have your little fire in the woods like the simpletons you are if that is trully fun for you.

Hmm i don't know much the Classic project is gonna cost, im not a game dev, so i won't make any assumptions, but i will look at potential and then how other games are doing, and if just 20-50k people join the game with their 15$ sub each month, it could keep going. Remember, the game does not need much development after launch, so it is all about the initial input.

But this is actually not so much about how many players are gonna join and only play Classic. This is all about how many players Blizzard are gonna keep playing WoW by adding some Vanilla servers and also how many people they can get back into the WoW atmosphere(both Classic and retail) by making this big Classic launch event. I personally think that Blizzard is gonna earn alot of money from the potentail loss of income from the current players of WoW who would normally quit during the raiding low time of retail, who would just instead jump over to Classic and have a few months of playing there instead. Also, many people are quite shy about going back into WoW again, so holding a big "return to WoW" event, which the launch of Classic is, is proberly also gonna hook alot of people again, so they keep playing even when they are done with the Classic experience.

So yeah, people are gonna stop playing and people will find out that alot of what they liked about Vanilla was nostalgia, but Blizzard are proberly still gonna make money on the product, simply because there are so many potential customers and so many differnet kinds of income gains from launching a Classic server.

Finally, i am not a purist so better not use that word here. I am not even sure i would ever play Classic, but i still think people should get the chance to experience it, if not only to keep the Nost crowd from yelling at Blizzcon... Especially if they are gonna pay Blizzard for it and make them money.

- - - Updated - - -

Just that it has never been a solo grind. It was account sharing with your highschool buddies so you can cover a 24/7 pvp grind so you could be the one account, even though there were 5 of you edgy teens farming nonstop.

Plus having only one High Warlord is the clear example of how stupid that is. An army doesn't have only one general. Yes you have one president/king but when it comes to wars he has dozens of generals that he takes input from. And ingame that's what you grind for: a military title. So you need more High Warlods at the table.

Make it hard to get. I completely agree. But not unobtainable like it was for a normal dedicated grinder that had to compete with an account that was farmed by 5 others.

I think the PVP titles was fun. I for example tried to grind it back then yet i only got to first sergent and that was even with weeks of just doing PVP after school. They also showed a form of prestige, like the first player on my server who got actual famous, was the High Warlord Beastcall. He got talked about in guilds, people got generally exited when he arrived at events and people sought him out to get PVP advice. It might have been bullshit to get and the system might have its problems, but it showed dedication and made a clear ranking in the PVP players. With a few tweeks, it can be a great thing to hunt as a full time PVPer.

[Hottage]

So you don't want to experience the opening of AQ? You don't want to experience the Naxx event or the PvP ranking system?

The last patch of Vanilla is not by far as many people remember it and by having it be the last patch removes alot of the character progression, that people liked about Vanilla.

The PvP system wasn't removed until 2.0 and the Gates of Ahn'qiraj will still be closed until the realm opens them.
It wasn't until part way through The Burning Crusade that Blizzard set new realms to automatically start with AQ open.

[Animalhouse]

Ehh no, let's not kid ourselves here. A vast majority of Vanilla content on Nost are estimates, nothing else.

- - - Updated - - -


They can't use Nost code regardless of what they want. It's other people's work (Not Nost's, Mangos itself) and ontop of that, it's an emulator.

Blizzard as a professional company could never release the game in such a shit condition, especially when it comes to security and reliability from using such things, something Private servers don't have to burden themselves with.

A database is a database. Mangos is open source and Blizz CAN use any part of it if they like. My god you act like MySQL is proprietary.
Blizz has plenty of resources and obvious inside knowledge to fix any hack scripts....it'll be OK man and is not rocket science.
They already have a playable version they said. And another thing, why in the fuck do you think they approached Nost in the first place?!


Anyway back to the topic, I am a bit torn. This is not to be a normal expansion so a progression makes NO sense. I do get that ZG makes certain content trivial but I do love ZG. I would be fine with an earlier patch but what would be the point of any progressive patch release? After 12-18 months when they finally drop 1.12, future players would have to deal with this anyway. Kinda silly to do a progressive for the initial rush crowd. Not only that but I doubt they want too many people completely distracted and spending zero time in current content. A 1.12 that contains everything vanilla asset wise is a great way to give players a place to change the pace and relax.
I mean whatever, I will be spending most of my time in vanilla regardless and I will get the most out of a progressive patch cycle but for people who come later, it just makes no sense and is only delaying the inevitable.

[Dudas]

Hmm i don't know much the Classic project is gonna cost, im not a game dev, so i won't make any assumptions, but i will look at potential and then how other games are doing, and if just 20-50k people join the game with their 15$ sub each month, it could keep going. Remember, the game does not need much development after launch, so it is all about the initial input.

But this is actually not so much about how many players are gonna join and only play Classic. This is all about how many players Blizzard are gonna keep playing WoW by adding some Vanilla servers and also how many people they can get back into the WoW atmosphere(both Classic and retail) by making this big Classic launch event. I personally think that Blizzard is gonna earn alot of money from the potentail loss of income from the current players of WoW who would normally quit during the raiding low time of retail, who would just instead jump over to Classic and have a few months of playing there instead. Also, many people are quite shy about going back into WoW again, so holding a big "return to WoW" event, which the launch of Classic is, is proberly also gonna hook alot of people again, so they keep playing even when they are done with the Classic experience.

So yeah, people are gonna stop playing and people will find out that alot of what they liked about Vanilla was nostalgia, but Blizzard are proberly still gonna make money on the product, simply because there are so many potential customers and so many differnet kinds of income gains from launching a Classic server.

Finally, i am not a purist so better not use that word here. I am not even sure i would ever play Classic, but i still think people should get the chance to experience it, if not only to keep the Nost crowd from yelling at Blizzcon... Especially if they are gonna pay Blizzard for it and make them money.

There will 2 approaches. You pay for the vanilla experience only aka buy the game once. Which in time will be insufficient to hold the costs of having those servers up. Or the subscription type which will cause a shitload of rage from purists since they will feel they don't have to pay monthly for something they developed 14 years ago. Why should I pay 15$/month for something that doesn't get updated.

The safest one will be just like now. Pay subscription to the normal game and get access to that vanilla experience also. So this way you support both and we don't get divided communities.

[urasim]

Well, is there really anything wrong in that people who want to play the game get to influence it, no matter their previous experience? Like if 60% of the Classic playerbase want something yet have not played Vanilla, are they not in their right to want that change from Blizzard.

It's wrong in the sense that it will betray the idea of bringing classic back. It's a principle thing at this point.

I get that people should be informed, but what i have learned from these last month of forum posts about Classic, half of the Vanilla players can't even remember how it was back then anyway, so there is not much difference between an old school Vanilla player and an aspiring Classic player, who have only seen Vanilla through Youtube videos, WoWWiki sides and patch notes.

Which is why the Blizzard guy said "you think you do, but you don't".

But, even if people don't remember what it was like they'll get a crash course on it when it hits(assuming it stays true to the original), and they'll get that nostalgia rush they ever so crave. Which is something a non-classic player will never get.

I can only say, that i would personally prefer to experience the opening of AQ and Naxx once more, and to see players try to grind to High Warlord.... But if the potential majority of the Classic playerbase would rather be without them, well then i can really fault Blizzard for following that idea, now that they have said, that the community rules when it comes to Classic design.

Neither can I. They're a business after all. I won't even be playing the classic servers, so it really doesn't mean much to me. I'm just pointing out that it's probably a bad idea, and goes against the whole premise of what a classic server should be.

[Banard]

Got some news for you, if that's how they were going to do it, they would just copy the code and put the servers up next month. Obviously they aren't doing that, so there's going to be changes whether you(or any of the private server whiners) like it or not.

I thought the issue was there is no more code. They have been hacking and slashing it for 13 years....the original code is no more. The reason why they are hiring a new team is to re-invent the code.

[Flurryfang]

The PvP system wasn't removed until 2.0 and the Gates of Ahn'qiraj will still be closed until the realm opens them.
It wasn't until part way through The Burning Crusade that Blizzard set new realms to automatically start with AQ open.

Ohh when OP said the patch before TBC, i actually though he ment the pre-patch aswell I remember still being in Vanilla and being able to buy a High Warlords dagger with Honor and not the title

I am also talking about giving people time to get to max lvl before AQ opened, because if they had it unlockable from the very start of the expansion, alot of people would not get far into the game, before the hardcore had totally completed the event

[Hottage]

I am also talking about giving people time to get to max lvl before AQ opened, because if they had it unlockable from the very start of the expansion, alot of people would not get far into the game, before the hardcore had totally completed the event

That's how it was for a lot of people in vanilla in a way, anyway...

The majority of the player base were not in a state to start the Scepter quest lines for Scarab Lord as it required you to complete raid content, and farm those scarabs (which basically required T1/2 to do effectively).