Dear retail players, don't mess this up for us. As damages done will be irreversible.

[Deleted]

I feel like this has a weird factional, almost cult-like dimension to it.

He was one of hundreds of people who've worked on WoW over the years.

here's the problem. you have a group of people who feel ostracised and aggrieved by an authority who have spent a decade on the outside of a community inside there own bubble where there toxic ideas are shared only amongst them selves and with all challenge shut down that have now been thrust into the light by blizzard. its only natural that they have a cult like thinking and are so rooted in there confirmation bias that they see any and all criticism as a personal attack.

they have alot in common with 3rd wave militant feminists, the alt right, tumblarinas and all the other littel echo chamber sub cultures in that theve been told there right so often by the clones they surround them selves with that they cant even entertain possibly being wrong.

[darkfire979]

YEah, I agree with Heladys and the person he agreed with. There are private server players AND retail players who both wanted Classic to be released, just like there are private server players AND retail players stating they think it should have changes or be as pure as possible.
I'm a retail player, and I admit that I never thought they would do this, but that doesn't make my opinion less than others because I wasn't demanding Blizzard to make Classic server(s).

Even among the private server players, there are different groups of people with their own vision of what vanilla is or definition of 'pure', influenced by whichever private servers they played on before.

One of the ironic comments I saw on the Wow official forums was "No QoL changes, keep Classic Vanilla just like Nost server", as Nost itself has a number QoL changes that never existed in Vanilla.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Let em. Its just going to make asking for Blood Elves actually plausible and you guys can sit on here for another year going back and forth about it.

Blood Elves...

Only way that happens is if they do a BC version of the game (which I preferred over Classic).

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here's the problem. you have a group of people who feel ostracised and aggrieved by an authority who have spent a decade on the outside of a community inside there own bubble where there toxic ideas are shared only amongst them selves and with all challenge shut down that have now been thrust into the light by blizzard. its only natural that they have a cult like thinking and are so rooted in there confirmation bias that they see any and all criticism as a personal attack.

they have alot in common with 3rd wave militant feminists, the alt right, tumblarinas and all the other littel echo chamber sub cultures in that theve been told there right so often by the clones they surround them selves with that they cant even entertain possibly being wrong.

Except that the Alt-Right represents... well... you know... the actual "Right" and "Left" that existed prior to the globalist push during the post-WWII era, culminating in their seizure of power during the 60s, etc. (not that I care for a political discussion on this forum).

[munkeyinorbit]

I'm a live player and can tell you we will have less say overall. Why? Blizzard already has our money, they are trying to get someone else's.

Is that why you have to have a subscription to be able to comment on where Classic is going? I am far more important than anyone who doesn't have a subscription.

[Armourboy]

Is that why you have to have a subscription to be able to comment on where Classic is going? I am far more important than anyone who doesn't have a subscription.

Last I looked you can post on the warcraft forums without a sub, just need a trial account. You can have your say there as well as here.

But frankly I don't think live players are Blizzards concern. Actually they will probably want it to be different enough that live players stay there instead of going to classic. Can't sell expansions on a classic server.

[Mormolyce]

here's the problem. you have a group of people who feel ostracised and aggrieved by an authority who have spent a decade on the outside of a community inside there own bubble where there toxic ideas are shared only amongst them selves and with all challenge shut down that have now been thrust into the light by blizzard. its only natural that they have a cult like thinking and are so rooted in there confirmation bias that they see any and all criticism as a personal attack.

I'm getting a strong vibe of that as well.

Hopefully they're just a vocal minority of the Classic players... #notallvanillafans?

[Stardrift]

The only ones that'll ruin vanilla wow are the ones crying and bitching against any sort of much, much needed tweaks and changes. Such as class balancing and some minor non-gamechanging QoL additions.

[Deleted]

Blood Elves...

Only way that happens is if they do a BC version of the game (which I preferred over Classic).

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Except that the Alt-Right represents... well... you know... the actual "Right" and "Left" that existed prior to the globalist push during the post-WWII era, culminating in their seizure of power during the 60s, etc. (not that I care for a political discussion on this forum).

yea i know what they represent or say the represent. im talking about the group psychological issue's that comes from being in a community that is primevally based in an us v them mentality and has walled its self off from criticism to a large degree through internet bubbles.

as an aside i like alot of what the alt right stands for. freedom's and libertarianism are in my view more important than feelings but im not so blind that i cannot see the issues both sides have that prevent constructive dialogue and compromise between them :/

but that's enough about politics.

[In Ogres We Trust]

The only ones that'll ruin vanilla wow are the ones crying and bitching against any sort of much, much needed tweaks and changes. Such as class balancing and some minor non-gamechanging QoL additions.

^ This... exactly... this.

[Molvonos]

Every time Mark Kern is brought up, the bar is lowered a little bit more into the ground.

Seriously, if you want any sort of credibility, don't ever bring him up.

[Deleted]

I'm getting a strong vibe of that as well.

Hopefully they're just a vocal minority of the Classic players... #notallvanillafans?

the most vocal tend to be the minority because the majority is the ones that matter and get tailored too.

when is a protest a revolution? when the majority stand for the protesters. whats the difference between a protest and a revolution. protesters talk revolutionist's act

[Armourboy]

The only ones that'll ruin vanilla wow are the ones crying and bitching against any sort of much, much needed tweaks and changes. Such as class balancing and some minor non-gamechanging QoL additions.

I disagree with the class balancing, to do so is to fundamentally change the game, not to mention it will never stop once they start and it may not be the changes you think are needed to begin with. Some of the small QoL stuff I can get on board with.

[Hitei]

If you want changes, you don't want vanilla.

End of story. I hate that people try to ruin our experience.

They want Classic. Vanilla ended in 2007. It's never coming back.

[Mormolyce]

Except that the Alt-Right represents... well... you know... the actual "Right" and "Left" that existed prior to the globalist push during the post-WWII era, culminating in their seizure of power during the 60s, etc. (not that I care for a political discussion on this forum).

If "globalist" is code for the civil rights era, making their opponents Southern racists, then yeah sure.

[Echocho]

Let's make this clear, private server players doesn't own Classic or deserve it any more than the guy next to you. Some of us have been waiting for this moment for literally 10 years and your stubborn OCD issues with the Nostalrius core is what's ruining it if anything. Of course there will be changes, how could it not? The vanilla client is a relic, there are bugs and exploits everywhere and frankly things that don't make any sense.
Let Blizzard make the game the way they want to. I'm 100% certain they'll maintain the community aspect, the difficulty and the inconveniences. So what if it comes with a paint job and more balanced PvP.

[Stardrift]

I disagree with the class balancing, to do so is to fundamentally change the game, not to mention it will never stop once they start and it may not be the changes you think are needed to begin with. Some of the small QoL stuff I can get on board with.

Doubt there's anything that'll change the game and experience. All they gotta do is tweak numbers, and some gear.

[In Ogres We Trust]

If "globalist" is code for the civil rights era, making their opponents Southern racists, then yeah sure.

Cool story... let me know when you harp about Northern racists, Western racists, non-white racists, Asian racists, etc. (as if preferring to be around and engaging in policies for your own people is wrong). Do you have something to contribute to the thread, or... you know... do you want to harp on and on about pointless claptrap?

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That's not classic though, if you want that, by all means want it.

"we" want pure 1:1 classic.

We'll see what we get in the end, i can assure you the majority does not want those things.

You're only speaking for yourself. Personally, I want several changes to Classic, and thankfully, Blizzard agrees.

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Let's make this clear, private server players doesn't own Classic or deserve it any more than the guy next to you. Some of us have been waiting for this moment for literally 10 years and your stubborn OCD issues with the Nostalrius core is what's ruining it if anything. Of course there will be changes, how could it not? The vanilla client is a relic, there are bugs and exploits everywhere and frankly things that don't make any sense.
Let Blizzard make the game the way they want to. I'm 100% certain they'll maintain the community aspect, the difficulty and the inconveniences. So what if it comes with a paint job and more balanced PvP.

^ This sums it up.

[Hitei]

You know what we want, you're just using semantics to justify ruining what we want.

No bullshit QoL or changes like flying lfr class balance etc.

Pure as it was.

Good thing blizzard seemingly agrees with this.

No, I'm not sure what you want.

You keep saying"no changes!" despite the fact that it's already fundamentally changed. The community is completely different. Priorities are completely different, the way people appraoch the game all its aspects is completely different.

Vanilla wasn't warrior overpopulation, or mass engineering in PvP, or Un'goro mafias. It wasn't theorycrafting racials your first character, or picking professions for your first character based on the BiS items it could potentially produce or the likelihood of you getting the most profitable recipe drops.

Vanilla is gone. It is literally never going to come back. No matter how much "purists" vie for it. Even if they got exactly what they wanted, a 1:1 copy of patch 1.0, it will not be the same game, because it is a different community with different attitudes. It will not be the same game because it will lack the mass realm instability, world server breaking bugs, exploits, etc. Etc. It will not be the same game because it isn't new.

What you are crusading for does not, and will never exist.

It's a purity based literal nonsense. A solid example of memetic group thought that has become deluded into this "ANY CHANGE IS BAD BECAUSE ITS NOT HOW IT WAS" attitude that disregards that there were a bunch of major things that were just badly done in the game. Things that could be fixed to literally make a version of Vanilla superior to the original. A better Vanilla wow.

I'm not talking about LFR or flying, or crossrealm or even perfectly balanced classes. But why would you not want them to fix the poorly stretched textures? The godawful model for the stormwind keep? The mass of random polygons that are a quillboar? Why would you not want the pvp system based on account-sharing fixed? Why would not want a slight number alteration to some specs to increase viability in end game? Or the ability to transmog down into other gear acquired in classic instead of having IF filled with people all wearing the same BiS and tier pieces?

"Because that's not Vanilla" is not a real answer. This isn't Vanilla.

It's game built on the prinicples of Vanilla. Built on community, with some of the inconveniences and some of the rough edges.

[Mormolyce]

Cool story... let me know when you harp about Northern racists, Western racists, non-white racists, Asian racists, etc. (as if preferring to be around and engaging in policies for your own people is wrong). Do you have something to contribute to the thread, or... you know... do you want to harp on and on about pointless claptrap?

Well, that's the relevant group of people who fought against the Civil Rights Era.

[rda]

These threads are wasting their time discussing what changes they want or don't want, while in reality Blizzard will almost certainly simply NOT BE ABLE to make significant changes.

They say classic will be handled by a new team. New team. As in, a team that does not have any experience with WoW code.

Come on, put 2 and 2 together. How can a new team that does not have any experience with WoW code do classic? By *not touching* the old code = keeping the old server intact, and by putting their new code *around* that = creating a layer between the unmodified server (written by the WoW team years ago) and the unmodified client (either the vanilla one or the current one, but again, written and maintained by the WoW team). This severely restricts what kind of changes you can reasonably implement.

TLDR: Since they are hiring a new team, a team that decidedly does NOT and will NOT have any experience with WoW code, past or present, all these talks about changes to classic are myopic - their ability to make changes is going to be severely limited. Any big changes - like redoing the class balance - are out of question, they are impossible. All changes will be very small. Pretty much limited to bug fixes and workarounds for bugs that are hard to fix for real.

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Thankfully blizzard agrees.

It's not so much that they agree, it's that they don't have a choice. Classic is going to be vanilla plus limited integration into modern bnet (they might not even allow messaging between bnet friends from classic to retail and vice versa) plus some bug fixes. The new team will spend all their time slowly fixing bugs and exploits.