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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by rayden54 View Post
    Get it through your head. EVERY family thinks it's functional. EVERY family thinks "this can't happen in my family" Until they're wrong.

    You think my family knew my grandpa was a child molester? Hardly. As soon as they found out they made sure he went to prison.
    Then why am I and my family wrong for not having any child molesters? I'm confused as to how our system isn't working, yet it has lead to zero molestings?

    Oh wait I forgot, I have no idea if we're a functional family or not because I can't recognize a predator.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    You're still clinging to this idea that this is more about avoiding sexual abuse while they're kid and less about the real issue. Teaching your kids at an early age that they can set their own boundaries.
    How many boundaries do you let your kids set? How's it working out for you?
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    You're still clinging to this idea that this is more about avoiding sexual abuse while they're kid and less about the real issue. Teaching your kids at an early age that they can set their own boundaries.
    That might be because he's also replying to me and I am saying the two are related. As in "not knowing they can set their own boundaries" can lead them to not knowing how to avoid sexual abuse.

    I need to stop posting. Too tired to spell rghit.

  3. #103
    Oes noes the libruls ruining everything again herpa derpa derp.

    Meanwhile, I remember being a kid and being forced to hug and kiss relatives, it was super creepy sometimes. A bunch of adults putting social pressure on children to kiss other adults.

    And yes that kind of thing does normalise it, it's a loophole pedo uncles have been exploiting for a long time.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    Oh look, you're just deflecting again instead of actually stating any argument.
    Oh look, you can't answer the question so I can leave this thread feeling sorry for you. See you in the next thread where I inevitably comment on something that makes you flip out and complain about.
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  5. #105
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiiLoSNK View Post
    That's not at all what all kids take away from being told to hug a family member. Being told to hug a family member who constantly works really hard to make you happy, even if it means having to smell old people for 2 whole seconds, is not that bad of a compromise. I never once even began to feel like that meant , "oh hey, so now if some completely random guy in a van offers me candy, I have to hug him". Nobody I know has ever thought that. Parenting doesn't begin and end at telling you to hug someone who cares about you. They can still be like, "oh and also, strangers or family members who touch your crotch are bad, let us know".

    Kids definitely don't think the same way as adults. As a kid, I was slow to take other peoples feelings into consideration. If I yelled, "I don't wanna hug grandma, she's gross!", as an adult I'd feel horrible looking back on that. Not at one point ever was I thinking that I have to let people touch me or I'm being rude. I feel like we're not being taught the same things after being told to give someone a hug.
    You can say "that's not how it works" all you want, but that's how it happened with me. You're making it way more involved than it actually is. There was no thought process of "oh I have to hug Grandma so I have to let a stranger touch my crotch." It was the learned behaviour of "if an adult wants to hug me, I have to let them hug me or it's rude." I lived in a small town where lots of other people's family members would hug everyone because they knew everyone and everyone's kids. I was expected to let everyone hug me. And I had been told "if anyone ever touches you here, or here, that's bad, tell an adult" a few times, but you know what? When that nice man down the street started getting inappropriate with me, I didn't clue in at first that he was being inappropriate. And when I did realise that what he was starting to do was bad, there were two sides to the fear: fear at what was happening in general, and fear at telling an adult "no, you can't do that." There was not an easy logic, and I've never heard a story where a kid had an easy logic thought process while being abused that easily resolved the situation.

    This whole concept is just about not making your children feel forced to let other people touch them without their consent, because it can muddy the water between what is fine and doesn't hurt anyone (hugging a family member you love), and an abuser who will take advantage of a kid who is not used to being able to say "I don't want you to do that."

    The guy who molested me was not a family member, and I had never been forced to hug him. But he was nice to me and I knew my parents knew who he was, he was nice to me the whole time, telling me what he was doing was fine and that his family does it all the time. An adult or even teenager will actually stop to think "if I don't hug Grandma it will make her sad" and just do it anyway, and it won't confuse them when someone tries to take advantage of them in that way. A kid doesn't think that precisely, and not nearly as precisely as you are making it out to be. Automatic reaction/behaviour to a familiar situation isn't the same as thinking "I should let someone molest me".

    This isn't about telling your kids not to hug your family members because they might molest you. This isn't about hugs being akin to rape. This is about making sure your children don't feel obligated to allow themselves to be touched.
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    The horrors of kissing your granny, or hugging your aunt... truly awful stuff!



    These people seriously need to reflect on their miserable lives and fuck off projecting their non-issues on others.
    Hey speak to yourself my aunt has a mustache.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by rosebull View Post
    I feel like you have your own set of personal issues you're trying to project here. You do you though, you're wrong but you do you.
    I'm not telling anyone what to do in their own time, I'm just saying yeah it is kind of creepy when you force a crying young Billy to kiss his hideous grandma.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you're forcing them to hug someone they don't want to hug? Yeah. Pretty clearly. And that's all the message was regarding.

    Also, give up this bullshit "family values" nonsense. That's just a code word for "regressive social values". See also the homophobia behind the opposition to marriage equality, or the misogyny behind anti-abortion stuff. Those kinds of "values" should be degraded, because they're small-minded, petty, hateful bullshit.
    Being anti abortion isn't misogyny and no matter how much you and feminists want to use your buzzwords to make pro-lifers seem evil, it's not gonna work.

  9. #109
    I have a question for the peeps who have had trouble in their family/because of all this. Feel free to ignore me or send a PM if you want, I realize that it can be hard to talk about for a lot of people. My question is:

    Would it have helped you to have it explained to you back then that anything past a hug or a kiss on the cheek was inappropriate?

    I'd legitimately appreciate your thoughts. I'm trying to close my blind spots on this since we had different experiences.

  10. #110
    Epic! Oakshana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    Another poster mentioning rape for some reason. Where the fuck do you guys get this shit from?
    Because in todays modern era, the era of the outspoken SJW youtubers, third way feminism, etc etc... it is often said that lack of consent is akin to rap. For ANYTHING.

    It pervasive in our culture now. So when you hear on, you automatically associate it with the other.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    It's the go-to defense these days for claiming moral high ground. I wonder how long it'll last before people stop falling for it.
    It's always funny to me as well; the left attack the right for "defending pedophilia" but fall silent when they make these kinds of friends.



    Or is this a bunch of right-wingers pretending. Yeah, that's gotta be it. Couldn't POSSIBLY be the always innocent left who proclaim to be good and just and caring about kids...or maybe they do care...just a little too much.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    I have a question for the peeps who have had trouble in their family/because of all this. Feel free to ignore me or send a PM if you want, I realize that it can be hard to talk about for a lot of people. My question is:

    Would it have helped you to have it explained to you back then that anything past a hug or a kiss on the cheek was inappropriate?

    I'd legitimately appreciate your thoughts. I'm trying to close my blind spots on this since we had different experiences.
    I'll reply with this:

    I was never molested as a child. By anyone. not a teacher, not a relative, not an older "friend". Neither were my sisters. We hugged everyone in my family, and nothing untoward ever happened. i know that's not true for everyone, but these days to hear most people tell it, EVERYONE is getting molested. It happens, but it's not as wide spread and rampant among families as media will have you believe. Just like most people have ZERO idea of what being triggered is.

    Don't force your child to hug someone if they feel uncomfortable with it. But saying "why dont you go give X a hug" is not forcing them to.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    I have a question for the peeps who have had trouble in their family/because of all this. Feel free to ignore me or send a PM if you want, I realize that it can be hard to talk about for a lot of people. My question is:

    Would it have helped you to have it explained to you back then that anything past a hug or a kiss on the cheek was inappropriate?

    I'd legitimately appreciate your thoughts. I'm trying to close my blind spots on this since we had different experiences.
    No, not for me. I had been told about bad touching, but you never think that's actually gonna happen to you, you know? The situation was familiar at first, a friendly neighbourhood man who was nice to me and not at all threatening or creepy. By the time it was obvious what was happening was "bad touching" I was frozen. I obviously can't speak for everyone, but everything I know about abused kids and how they react to being abused, and my own personal experience, there is no adult logic there. It was less scary to me to go back to the guy's house and just hope it didn't happen again than to tell my parents it had happened at all, and it was somehow harder to say "stop, this is bad, don't do this to me" like I'd been told, than it was to remain silent and not be rude and confrontational with an adult. The most I could do was ask if "we" could stop. He was saying nice things to me the whole time, and it was very very hard to equate "very kind man who my parents know the name of who lives down the street" to "evil bad monster who is doing an evil bad thing my parents said is not okay".
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    You can say "that's not how it works" all you want, but that's how it happened with me. You're making it way more involved than it actually is. There was no thought process of "oh I have to hug Grandma so I have to let a stranger touch my crotch." It was the learned behaviour of "if an adult wants to hug me, I have to let them hug me or it's rude." I lived in a small town where lots of other people's family members would hug everyone because they knew everyone and everyone's kids. I was expected to let everyone hug me. And I had been told "if anyone ever touches you here, or here, that's bad, tell an adult" a few times, but you know what? When that nice man down the street started getting inappropriate with me, I didn't clue in at first that he was being inappropriate. And when I did realise that what he was starting to do was bad, there were two sides to the fear: fear at what was happening in general, and fear at telling an adult "no, you can't do that." There was not an easy logic, and I've never heard a story where a kid had an easy logic thought process while being abused that easily resolved the situation.

    This whole concept is just about not making your children feel forced to let other people touch them without their consent, because it can muddy the water between what is fine and doesn't hurt anyone (hugging a family member you love), and an abuser who will take advantage of a kid who is not used to being able to say "I don't want you to do that."

    The guy who molested me was not a family member, and I had never been forced to hug him. But he was nice to me and I knew my parents knew who he was, he was nice to me the whole time, telling me what he was doing was fine and that his family does it all the time. An adult or even teenager will actually stop to think "if I don't hug Grandma it will make her sad" and just do it anyway, and it won't confuse them when someone tries to take advantage of them in that way. A kid doesn't think that precisely, and not nearly as precisely as you are making it out to be. Automatic reaction/behaviour to a familiar situation isn't the same as thinking "I should let someone molest me".

    This isn't about telling your kids not to hug your family members because they might molest you. This isn't about hugs being akin to rape. This is about making sure your children don't feel obligated to allow themselves to be touched.
    Alright, you can say that's how it worked for you, but I can say that that's not how it worked for me or almost anyone I know. Clearly, there is some sort of key difference between how we were raised and interact with our families, because in no way did I ever think that hugging my grandma meant that it was ok for all adults to hug me. Hugging an older family member was like a, "ugh ok well fine if I have to, but only because we go way back, grandma". I can't even fathom how that would translate into it teaching kids that all adults were now allowed to hug you.

    I too came from a small country town. Nobody locked their doors and everyone looked out for each other. Maybe I'm just insanely lucky?

    Never once did I connect hugging my grandma at a family event, to being touched by some random person when nobody else is around. My brain thinks those two things are incredibly different and honestly couldn't be further apart.
    Last edited by LiiLoSNK; 2017-11-22 at 05:54 AM.
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  15. #115
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    If in a culture a hug, kiss or handshake is accepted to be a form of politeness is important you teach this to your child. You need teach your children the values of whatever community or culture you grow up in...they can still choose to not follow said values when they grow up.

  16. #116
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshana View Post
    I'll reply with this:

    I was never molested as a child. By anyone. not a teacher, not a relative, not an older "friend". Neither were my sisters. We hugged everyone in my family, and nothing untoward ever happened. i know that's not true for everyone, but these days to hear most people tell it, EVERYONE is getting molested. It happens, but it's not as wide spread and rampant among families as media will have you believe. Just like most people have ZERO idea of what being triggered is.

    Don't force your child to hug someone if they feel uncomfortable with it. But saying "why dont you go give X a hug" is not forcing them to.
    The amount of people I know who have been abused makes me actually not surprised by the amount of people you hear about getting assaulted. More than half of my immediate family has been sexually assaulted and a number of friends. I will totally agree though, that encouraging your kid to give a hug to someone isn't the same as making them feel like they have no choice and straight up need to hug every family member/family friend who requests/expects one.
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  17. #117
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    Yes forcing little kids girls or boys to be touched because you think they ought to be is pretty fucked up good for the girl scouts. I mean honestly who wouldn't want to hug an adorable little girl scout in a not pervy way, but yeah it's their personal space.
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  18. #118
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Should I sue my parents for inappropriately touching me without my consent while they were changing my diapers?
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  19. #119
    I have to agree, it is weird forcing someone to hug a relative, especiallly if they dont want to.

  20. #120
    The Lightbringer Izalla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiiLoSNK View Post
    Alright, you can say that's how it worked for you, but I can say that that's not how it worked for me or almost anyone I know. Clearly, there is some sort of key difference between how we were raised and interact with our families, because in no way did I ever think that hugging my grandma meant that it was ok for all adults to hug me. Hugging an older family member was like a, "ugh ok well fine if I have to, but only because we go way back, grandma". I can't even fathom how that would translate into it teaching kids that all adults were now allowed to hug you.

    I too came from a small country town. Nobody locked their doors and everyone looked out for each other. Maybe I'm just insanely lucky?

    Never once did I connect hugging my grandma at a family event, to being touched by some random person when nobody else is around. My brain thinks those two things are incredibly different and honestly couldn't be further apart.
    Did you ever encounter someone who attempted to molest you? Because if you didn't, I don't think it's fair to say that you know how you would have dealt with/reacted to it. You're still putting words in my mouth that I am not trying to argue. I'm not saying there is any actual thought process that makes a kid go "giving Grandma a hug is the same as letting a stranger touch my privates." I also never connected the two things. I never thought it was okay for a person to touch me there. It just took me longer to realise what the hell was going on when he DID start doing that, because it was just normal for all kinds of adults to hug me. I NEVER thought it was okay for him to touch my genitals, or take off my clothes, ever. I started to cry when I realised what was going on. But I didn't say stop, because I was terrified. And part of being terrified, was feeling like it was rude to tell an adult to not to do something. I had never been allowed to tell an adult not to hug me, that was being a bad kid. My child brain, was stuck on "that makes you a bad kid". Being abused as a kid doesn't result in logical thoughts or sensible reactions.

    Maybe you would have reacted differently than me. But I can promise you, that feeling like I'd be a bad kid to tell an adult not to touch me, really fucked me up in that moment.
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