Dear retail players, don't mess this up for us. As damages done will be irreversible.

[Erwarth]

As a retail player. I'm all for a "no changes" Classic Server

[Shadochi]

Supposedly retail players enjoy retail, supposedly they have no time for vanilla, supposedly vanilla will have less players.


If I go with your logic, majority of retail players will switch to vanilla and retail will die a few months laters.

Um no, I just said that your statement of "Vanilla not being for retail players" in not correct. I didn't say the majority of retail players will go there, just that it doesn't matter what version of the game your're playing, you can still try out classic servers to see if it's your cup of tea.

Retail will live for quite some time as long as we don't get another cut tier.
While Classic also has potential to have a long lifespan depending on how they handle progression (saying potential since not even they have decided)

[Armourboy]

Yeah... I really don't like the concept of warrior tanks in vanilla. Since more tank damage means more threat, you're gonna get funneled gear as a warrior tank and basically hold the raid hostage if you don't get your gear.

It they made protection paladin/Feral druids more viable, warriors would have competition and the gear would be given to the most skilled tank, not the one who chose the correct spec...

Although, to be fair... Most tier is designed around 1 role, which is so fucking dumb IMO.

The last statement is pretty much incorrect, that didn't really happen until Tier 3. Most of the Paladin set bonuses were spread out across the 3 specs.

example : http://db.vanillagaming.org/?itemset=217
another one but for druids : http://db.vanillagaming.org/?itemset=205

[Deleted]

Newsflash: majority of blizzard players did not play on private servers, the populace that will play on Blizzard server is even HIGHER than private server

Yeah, but you completely miss all the point, and i will bother explain this to you.

We are talking about if WoW:Classic will be tied to the sub fee or have a smaller sub fee. In those case, probably they will not gather the 100% crowd of people that played ONLY the FREE private servers.

[Shadochi]

Newsflash: majority of blizzard players did not play on private servers, the populace that will play on Blizzard server is even HIGHER than private server

Any facts to back that up? Since the majority of the backing behind the petition was streamers telling their fans "Even if you have no interest in it, just go to this website and sign it" so there is no way of knowing the legitimate number behind that crowd actually wanting it as a main game vs the ones wanting to try it out and then see if they'll stick with it.

[Deleted]

. In those case, probably they will not gather the 100% crowd of people that played ONLY the FREE private servers.

They will gather much higher crowd

[Vineri]

If you play retail why would you want to play vanilla? Vanilla is for those who are not playing retail.

I suppose it's a submission that retail is rather boring and retail players need a "new game", which accounts for most of the QoL requests, I'm sure.

People who:

don't really give a shit about the classic servers, I'll probably check them out, maybe even put in some decent amount of time if they release it when progression is over on retail (end of expansion raid).

sums it up nicely, after which they include their changes. Which is precisely why entitled rants don't matter much to Blizzard .. or in Blizzard's words "We're not Moving away from Vanilla" .. "Vanilla means Vanilla".

[Deleted]

Any facts to back that up?

All the new accounts you see even here that start to post that they are returning back for vanilla.

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I suppose it's a submission that retail is rather boring

Every retail player should have this sigged from now on.

[Armourboy]

Any facts to back that up? Since the majority of the backing behind the petition was streamers telling their fans "Even if you have no interest in it, just go to this website and sign it" so there is no way of knowing the legitimate number behind that crowd actually wanting it as a main game vs the ones wanting to try it out and then see if they'll stick with it.

I'm sure Blizzard did its research, if there wasn't a large enough expected base I seriously doubt they would have buckled after so many years of saying no. Granted, maybe they just wanted to see if they could actually do it, but there is a reason for the change in stance from them.

[Deleted]

Stop being so entitled, who do you think paid for all the sub fees for all these years that will likely be used to fund this project? Certainly not the ones who left moaning after vanilla/TBC/WOTLK. The classic servers are for everyone and if people are starting to claim a higher ground over who should have a say and not, it should be those who've been paying that sub fee longest.

So get off your high horse, if you can't let everyone contribute to the conversations, you can't have very good ideas and ways to argue for those ideas. Everyone has their own idea of what it should be like, best thing to do would be to find a middle ground and add things that do not affect gameplay largely as optional for those who want them. Updated models/graphics being one good example.

There are number of people who still play retail, that likely know and have experienced more of vanilla and the previous expansions than lot of these purists. They have exactly the same rights to express their opinions and ideas in regards to the Classic as everyone else.

[Shadochi]

All the new accounts you see even here that start to post that they are returning back for vanilla.

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Every retail player should have this sigged from now on.

Forum numbers =/= paying playerbase

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I'm sure Blizzard did its research, if there wasn't a large enough expected base I seriously doubt they would have buckled after so many years of saying no. Granted, maybe they just wanted to see if they could actually do it, but there is a reason for the change in stance from them.

Oh, blizz definitely has numbers to back up their decisions. I', just asking the person for his source on all of his statements other than him coming up with it, since he has proven not to be very objective around this topic.

[Deleted]

There are number of people who still play retail

So why do they want to play vanilla?

[Armourboy]

Stop being so entitled, who do you think paid for all the sub fees for all these years that will likely be used to fund this project? Certainly not the ones who left moaning after vanilla/TBC/WOTLK. The classic servers are for everyone and if people are starting to claim a higher ground over who should have a say and not, it should be those who've been paying that sub fee longest.

So get off your high horse, if you can't let everyone contribute to the conversations, you can't have very good ideas and ways to argue for those ideas. Everyone has their own idea of what it should be like, best thing to do would be to find a middle ground and add things that do not affect gameplay largely as optional for those who want them. Updated models/graphics being one good example.

There are number of people who still play retail, that likely know and have experienced more of vanilla and the previous expansions than lot of these purists. They have exactly the same rights to express their opinions and ideas in regards to the Classic as everyone else.

No offense, but classic servers won't be for everyone, and it seems initially from Blizzards remarks they are ok with that.

BTW I'm one of those people still playing live that has been around since then, I expect there won't be a whole lot of middle ground.

[Shadochi]

Stop being so entitled, who do you think paid for all the sub fees for all these years that will likely be used to fund this project? Certainly not the ones who left moaning after vanilla/TBC/WOTLK. The classic servers are for everyone and if people are starting to claim a higher ground over who should have a say and not, it should be those who've been paying that sub fee longest.

So get off your high horse, if you can't let everyone contribute to the conversations, you can't have very good ideas and ways to argue for those ideas. Everyone has their own idea of what it should be like, best thing to do would be to find a middle ground and add things that do not affect gameplay largely as optional for those who want them. Updated models/graphics being one good example.

There are number of people who still play retail, that likely know and have experienced more of vanilla and the previous expansions than lot of these purists. They have exactly the same rights to express their opinions and ideas in regards to the Classic as everyone else.

I agree, who's for Classic starting at 5.0, skipping WoD and going to Legion? Since by them time that happens it'll be at least 2 years after legion ends and it'll be considered legacy (that's by time time MoP life-cycle finishes on Classic if classic were to launch by the end of 2018)

[Deleted]

So why do they want to play vanilla?

Because they miss the sense of community and the way leveling worked. Not because they missed the old graphics or stupid things like that.

Yeah, but you completely miss all the point, and i will bother explain this to you.

We are talking about if WoW:Classic will be tied to the sub fee or have a smaller sub fee. In those case, probably they will not gather the 100% crowd of people that played ONLY the FREE private servers.

Blizzard run server does bring the reason why a lot of players like myself don't really do private servers. Leveling takes awhile and it is a journey I'd like to enjoy as well, but risk of losing all those hours and effort put in, because the server gets shutdown, is too big of a risk for some.

[Yousef]

Dear classic private server players, 90% of those who want changes to classic are classic private server players.

[Deleted]

Because they miss the sense of community and the way leveling worked. Not because they missed the old graphics or stupid things like that.
.

So when retail people will go to vanilla, retail will be barren land

[Armourboy]

Dear classic private server players, 90% of those who want changes to classic are classic private server players.

And you have proof of this how?

[Deleted]

So when retail people will go to vanilla, retail will be barren land

If you do not understand what I mean with sense of community in vanilla and TBC vs retail, you must not know a lot. That's not at all what I meant, it certainly will not be barren.

[Vineri]

Because they miss the sense of community and the way leveling worked. Not because they missed the old graphics or stupid things like that.

Wouldn't it make more sense if "they" petitioned Blizzard to change Legions / BFA?