Havoc DH tier set just got nerfed back to 15% haste on PTR...

[psyquest]

Lmao.

Is this fine?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ount&boss=2032

Mythic Goroth, 99th perc.

Top spec: 1.884M DPS
Worst spec: 1.582M DPS

That's 260k DPS difference. For the numbers we're talking, is huge.

Now lets go to an AoE fight.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ount&boss=2037

Misstress, 99th perc.

Top spec: 2.9M DPS
Worst spec: 1.9M DPS

1M DPS difference. Fine right?

Come on.

Do you know what's even worse? Specs that perform great in AoE (Balance Druids) are also mid-top in Single Target scenarios.

Does this remind you of something? Yeah, Shadow Priests in T21. Topping the simmed DPS charts for Single Target DPS when their niche is cleave. Prepare for EN 2.0

Good demonstration. Yet some people will still not see it.

on a side note: you my friend know your shit very well.

[Creepercat]

Considering they have all the logs and parses and we don't, I'll take their word over anyone on these forums. The people in these threads are just ordinary people trying to tell NASA how to build the next generation space shuttle. It'd be laughable if they weren't so serious about it.

What a terrible analogy.

Time and time again, we see pretty big imbalances after they ignore feedback and go with their "internal testing." They then have to balance a week after the changes because the balance is all over the place.

This isn't the first time that happened. It happens every single big patch.

[Deleted]

The 4pc bonus alone was giving 14% dps. I don't know what the new numbers will be, but it was too strong.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sle=true#gid=0

They nerfed all the ones that were giving +10% dps and fire mage.

Crazy. 14% from 4p alone is insane. 20% would have been fine though.

[Deleted]

So i simmed my gear and i will get a 7k DPS upgrade using the Antorus Mythic gear compared to the Mythic ToS gear and the HC gear for antorus was just a downgrade... Ill just afk this tier and still be as good as any other DH progressing Mythic then!

[Teddybird]

After reading these threads i always feels like i need to post something twice the length of my post in declaimers in the hope i don't get attacked just because i say something different.

Im not saying Havoc is fine, in not saying one tier is better than the other.

I hear alot of people talk about demonic like its completely worthless and is the worst thing that could possibility exists. It isnt.
Im not saying its "optimal" but it is viable (a word that gets misused alot), i personal hate with a passion the chaos blade spec - regardless of the dps it does its play style is so boring to me. Ive been demonic since about half way though nighthold.

There's lots of people who blindly follow whats people say is optimal and don't try anything else, and i would strongly suggest people try it before you knock it. Ive at least been looking forward to the tier from a gameplay PoV and its a bit of a shame its has turned out as shit as it is.

For the extra caveat - As of last week Mythic Avatar is dead and think guild ended this tier around the 1300 world mark (not something we care about)
Also keep up the good work Shiro!

[Creepercat]

So i simmed my gear and i will get a 7k DPS upgrade using the Antorus Mythic gear compared to the Mythic ToS gear and the HC gear for antorus was just a downgrade... Ill just afk this tier and still be as good as any other DH progressing Mythic then!

That doesn't seem right. Did you sim with the right talents and stat prio?

[Deleted]

That doesn't seem right. Did you sim with the right talents and stat prio?

3310333 for Tier 21 with crit/mastery and 2220311 for t20 crithaste~

[Creepercat]

3310333 for Tier 21 with crit/mastery and 2220311 for t20 crithaste~

Welp I simmed mine and Heroic T21 is in fact lower than Mythic T20 by pretty decent margin. Maybe my earlier sims were a bit off.

[Lostprophet]

After reading these threads i always feels like i need to post something twice the length of my post in declaimers in the hope i don't get attacked just because i say something different.

Im not saying Havoc is fine, in not saying one tier is better than the other.

I hear alot of people talk about demonic like its completely worthless and is the worst thing that could possibility exists. It isnt.
Im not saying its "optimal" but it is viable (a word that gets misused alot), i personal hate with a passion the chaos blade spec - regardless of the dps it does its play style is so boring to me. Ive been demonic since about half way though nighthold.

There's lots of people who blindly follow whats people say is optimal and don't try anything else, and i would strongly suggest people try it before you knock it. Ive at least been looking forward to the tier from a gameplay PoV and its a bit of a shame its has turned out as shit as it is.

For the extra caveat - As of last week Mythic Avatar is dead and think guild ended this tier around the 1300 world mark (not something we care about)
Also keep up the good work Shiro!

I don't think the majority says demonic is worthless. And Yes you're right it isn't.
In M+ it is the go to specc and in ToS you can play it. But ofc, CB Build is stronger on most Bosses.
I tried it in a full HC with mostly okeyish Results and one very good (2mio on Host). Given I have like no exp in a raid setting:/

[Deleted]

Welp I simmed mine and Heroic T21 is in fact lower than Mythic T20 by pretty decent margin. Maybe my earlier sims were a bit off.

I just noticed i messed the hc ilvl up,

[Creepercat]

I just noticed i messed the hc ilvl up,

Welp my H T21 is simming around 50k lower than M T20. :S

[Deleted]

Welp my H T21 is simming around 50k lower than M T20. :S

Yeah same, but that's not an error that's just how bad the t21 is sadly..

[Night22]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T21_Raid.html

These sims are with the current 15% proc, maybe we will get some nice class balancing *KEK*

[kaelleria]

[xZora]

I'd like to also include this fact in the discussion - the 4pc only rewards the Haste after you fully channel Eye Beam; meaning if you get stunned/silenced/cancel early you do not gain the bonus.

[Occar]

I'd like to also include this fact in the discussion - the 4pc only rewards the Haste after you fully channel Eye Beam; meaning if you get stunned/silenced/cancel early you do not gain the bonus.

It was always that way. That said, this is an amusing tacit admission that eyebeam is crap. The restriction shows that they understand that unless there are multiple targets, casting the whole thing is a waste of time.

[GamerDH]

We gonna have to bend over real far this time guys. Get ready.

[Deleted]

Well, there's two ways this one goes:
They leave us dumpstered because whatever, it's last tier, or we get that set bonus back with gutted Raddons.
Both cases require hoping for a rework...

[Meanshield]

This xpac's lovechild is Warriors.

[Kreo]

Well, unlike some lucky TF people I would have to switch to T21 (still have 2 tier items at 915, despite numerous drops, with sockets tho!) since my guild is done with ToS, so this thread make me a bit depressed a bit.
But I do believe Blizzard said they will tweak class balance well into the raid, so maybe not all is lost.