Dear retail players, don't mess this up for us. As damages done will be irreversible.

[khalltusk]

Not sure why that is important for you to be agreed with.. but no I do not. It is likely they will write interfacing code for the server.

You're splitting mighty fine hairs. They will make some back end changes, if they do a decent job they will also do a bunch of testing and adjustments for the client too. If they didn't I would question their capability, anything in IT or development you wouldn't just bring up an older version of software and just run it and call it a day. You would run into a lot of problems doing that.

The main reason I asked that of you is to make sure I understand your position. From what I understand you think they will make NO changes to the client, and only changes to their server instances.

If thats what you truly think then I am sorry that won't be the case. They will test it, they will make adjustments to ensure the game runs well on a whole new host of operating systems and hardware. This is blizzard they had to do this for Starcraft remastered as well. They have standards.

This does not mean that they will change the game drastically. This is purely compatibility issues I am talking about.

[Maudib]

When I say no changes... I mean no changes to the gameplay. It is quite possible they will have to make changes to the code to have it open instances by calling "this" instead of "that"... but that doesn't change the game in any way whatsoever...

Again, Brack said: "But now we think we have a way to have the old WoW version work on the modern infrastructure and feel really good."

Clear and concise... old wow version means just that... the VERSION of wow from back then working on modern infrastructure. Some have tried to say they will rebuild Classic on the new engine, or that they are open to changes. It is simply NOT an option. Blizzard will not open the door to modifying millions of lines of code when it works as it is and they have archives of it's progress They REALLY don't think it will be very successful... which is ironic... as the original team underestimated how it would perform.

For me... this means 6 months is plenty time to get things in place and ready to launch. But we will see. I'm sure I am doing some wishful thinking.

[khalltusk]

stuff

Ok so we're almost on the same page thats fine. It does not mean its an easy job though, there is a lot of work for them to do. I would rather they take their time and get it right rather than rush it out. I estimate at least 10 - 12 months if they don't hit any major problems.

We don't know at the moment what patch they will choose or anything yet. My guess is they take the last Vanilla patch. Apply more fixes to it (bugs exploits etc). This technically wouldn't be a Vanilla patch but for the average user it wouldn't be any different.

Main thing for me is that they take any time they need and get it right. If they have to bug fixes and patches cool. If they have it done and it works great. I do not want a repeat of the cluster fuck early wow was. I still enjoyed it but it was bloody frustrating with some game breaking bugs not to mention server issues.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Classic servers are for people who enjoy classic vanilla experience and nothing else. Retail players has nothing to do with current vanilla state of affairs. Entitled retail players you should stop with your irrelevant demands, you add zero value to the conversation.


Anyway, the love is real. Former Team Lead of Classic WoW. Mark Kern, and his Open Letter to Blizzard Entertainment.

Holy shit talk about entitled. It's hilarious because in reality it's you who don't contribute anything. You truly don't deserve this from blizzard. Part of me hopes they change it so all the private server kids can just stay there and leave proper games for serious players.

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At a loss as to why people would care if we had the following:

a) Updated Models
b) Transmog
c) Battle.net Integration (Assured)
d) Collection System For Mounts/Pets
e) Updated Art Assets
f) Increased Bag Size

If anything, including some of these features would prolong the life of the community. Who wants to play with 2004 graphics?

Because the people who refuse to discuss potential changes have only played private servers. They don't know how much classic actually changed through out. Ironically, the t2 set everyone remembers as iconic started as out shit that would barely pass for questing gear. If they really wanted classic they would want 1.1 not 1.12.

[Maudib]

Ok so we're almost on the same page thats fine. It does not mean its an easy job though, there is a lot of work for them to do. I would rather they take their time and get it right rather than rush it out. I estimate at least 10 - 12 months if they don't hit any major problems.

We don't know at the moment what patch they will choose or anything yet. My guess is they take the last Vanilla patch. Apply more fixes to it (bugs exploits etc). This technically wouldn't be a Vanilla patch but for the average user it wouldn't be any different.

I would not have a problem with that.... start with the last Vanilla patch, back out (lock out) any content that needs to be sequential... and boom... a solid release.

[Protean]

Classic servers are for people who enjoy classic vanilla experience and nothing else. Retail players has nothing to do with current vanilla state of affairs. Entitled retail players you should stop with your irrelevant demands, you add zero value to the conversation.

Why do you bother making this post? There is absolutely zero percent chance that WoW Classic will be anything other than a failure in the eyes of every single group minus one extremely small niché group who happens to get all their wishes. Which is all up to chance, not because Blizzard is playing favorites.

Everybody will find something to complain about, and use this as a platform to call WoW Classic a huge failure and blame Blizzard for not listening.


This entire exercise is pointless, you are all but guaranteed to hate it.

[Echocho]

When I say no changes... I mean no changes to the gameplay. It is quite possible they will have to make changes to the code to have it open instances by calling "this" instead of "that"... but that doesn't change the game in any way whatsoever...

Again, Brack said: "But now we think we have a way to have the old WoW version work on the modern infrastructure and feel really good."

Clear and concise... old wow version means just that... the VERSION of wow from back then working on modern infrastructure. Some have tried to say they will rebuild Classic on the new engine, or that they are open to changes. It is simply NOT an option. Blizzard will not open the door to modifying millions of lines of code when it works as it is and they have archives of it's progress They REALLY don't think it will be very successful... which is ironic... as the original team underestimated how it would perform.

For me... this means 6 months is plenty time to get things in place and ready to launch. But we will see. I'm sure I am doing some wishful thinking.

Apparently you have problems with both reading comprehension and quotation. What he said was:

"We think we have a way to run the Classic servers on the modern technical infrastructure. The infrastructure is how we spin up instances and continents, how the database works. It’s those core fundamental pieces, and running two MMOs of that size is a daunting problem. But now we think we have a way to have the old WoW version work on the modern infrastructure and feel really good."

That's all server side, they have literally never mentioned client work but the fact that they've mass recruited client developers speak volumes. You can check their job listings for yourself, they're still hiring.

[Maudib]

Apparently you have problems with both reading comprehension and quotation. What he said was:

"We think we have a way to run the Classic servers on the modern technical infrastructure. The infrastructure is how we spin up instances and continents, how the database works. It’s those core fundamental pieces, and running two MMOs of that size is a daunting problem. But now we think we have a way to have the old WoW version work on the modern infrastructure and feel really good."

That's all server side, they have literally never mentioned client work but the fact that they've mass recruited client developers speak volumes. You can check their job listings for yourself, they're still hiring.

"a way to have the old WoW version work on the modern infrastructure and feel really good"

Doesn't say convert, translate, approximate... it just says "old wow version works".

'nuff said

Oh... and "mass recruited"? You mean the TWO positions for a Senior Software Engineer and a Software Engineer? With a job description of:

Responsibilities include building gameplay systems, transforming database data, building UI elements, repackaging binary distributions, and working closely with designers to revive the classic game elements

These guys will be there to copy the files over and compile the patch code.

So either they have already have filled the teams.. or they aren't that big. Which I would not expect seeing how they naturally will use the existing teams for server admin, customer support, games masters, etc...

[Ielenia]

I said why this means nothing. Please read what you reply to, my post was very short yet your attention span is seemingly even shorter.

They can't ever say that they aren't open to feedback on anything. Not only they are actually open to feedback on anything, even if they weren't, they wouldn't be able to say that they weren't, this just harms them for no reason. Consequently - look at this word: consequently - them saying that they are open to feedback on X means exactly nothing.

Your "on the same token" isn't on the same token, it was illogical.

Except, in this case, if it was their intention to release the game as a 1:1 representation of how it was on vanilla, feedback on changes are meaningless and ultimately useless. This isn't a new game they're creating, they're re-releasing a 'classic'. The plans are already laid out. If you make yourself open to customer feedback on the development of the game, then, yes, that means they're not adverse to making changes to the original formula.

Saying "this means nothing" because they're "always willing to take customer feedback" is exactly the same thing as saying that what they announce they're doing also mean nothing because many things they announced in the past were cancelled.

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"a way to have the old WoW version work on the modern infrastructure and feel really good"

Doesn't say convert, translate, approximate... it just says "old wow version works".

'nuff said

You're being willfully dishonest here, because "a way to have X work" means exactly 'convert, translate, approximate'.

[rda]

Except, in this case, if it was their intention to release the game as a 1:1 representation of how it was on vanilla, feedback on changes are meaningless and ultimately useless. This isn't a new game they're creating, they're re-releasing a 'classic'. The plans are already laid out. If you make yourself open to customer feedback on the development of the game, then, yes, that means they're not adverse to making changes to the original formula.

Yes, feedback on changes is mostly meaningless for the implementation that they seem to be aiming for. That they are asking for feedback doesn't mean that they can make big changes (or even medium changes).

Saying "this means nothing" because they're "always willing to take customer feedback" is exactly the same thing as saying that what they announce they're doing also mean nothing because many things they announced in the past were cancelled.

No. This is a logic fail.

[Pull My Finger]

Mark Kern is a serial douchebag.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Before people make a list of wishes or demands they should really go and play on a vanilla private server and play to lvl 30 (roughly) on as many classes and specs as they can bother to and then come back and voice their opinions.

Vanilla was all about realm communities, the actual game (leveling, classes/specs, balance) was terrible and unfinished... Only Warriors could tank (Paladin and Druid tanks didn't have taunt or threat generation to maintain aggro), there were race specific abilities which meant you were "forced" to be a specific spec (Dwarf Priest, hello!)

Bring back what was great about Vanilla/Classic: Realm communities. Disable all LFR, LFG, Cross Realm and other bullshit that allows for people to behave like assholes because they'll never run into the same people again... But when it comes to the game, classes and specs in particular, they should be updated to something that's balanced and not as broken as it was.

[Maudib]

You're being willfully dishonest here, because "a way to have X work" means exactly 'convert, translate, approximate'.

No, no it does not. Old WoW works on the servers, just like old wow client works on our PCs.

[Ielenia]

Yes, feedback on changes is mostly meaningless for the implementation that they seem to be aiming for. That they are asking for feedback doesn't mean that they can make big changes (or even medium changes).

Doesn't mean they can't, either. It also doesn't mean they won't.

No. This is a logic fail.

Because you say so? Ok.

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No, no it does not. Old WoW works on the servers, just like old wow client works on our PCs.

If old WoW worked fine the way it was, they would not have to find a way for it to work.

[Heathy]

If old WoW worked fine the way it was, they would not have to find a way for it to work.

aren't they essentially trying to retroactively apply 10 years of engine updates and optimizations onto an ancient patch version, its probably why its going to take a year or more. considering i was messing around with unity recently i can't imagine how much of a code base mess that would be to sort through. assuming its actually not possible to just put decade old assets on top of a more modern/updated version of the game engine.

sure the game might work but it doesn't work well enough to the quality that Blizzard are known for. 2006 wow isn't that long ago but there has been a lot of hardware improvements in that time.

[Echocho]

aren't they essentially trying to retroactively apply 10 years of engine updates and optimizations onto an ancient patch version, its probably why its going to take a year or more. considering i was messing around with unity recently i can't imagine how much of a code base mess that would be to sort through. assuming its actually not possible to just put decade old assets on top of a more modern/updated version of the game engine.

sure the game might work but it doesn't work well enough to the quality that Blizzard are known for. 2006 wow isn't that long ago but there has been a lot of hardware improvements in that time.

It's more likely that they're recreating vanilla using the already security client. The people they're recruiting will be working on things like UI elements, that would not be needed if they were using the old client.

[Ielenia]

aren't they essentially trying to retroactively apply 10 years of engine updates and optimizations onto an ancient patch version, its probably why its going to take a year or more. considering i was messing around with unity recently i can't imagine how much of a code base mess that would be to sort through. assuming its actually not possible to just put decade old assets on top of a more modern/updated version of the game engine.

sure the game might work but it doesn't work well enough to the quality that Blizzard are known for. 2006 wow isn't that long ago but there has been a lot of hardware improvements in that time.

Exactly my point. Blizzard can't just drop the old WoW code into the servers and call it a day. Changes to the code need to be made for an optimal game experience.

[Flarelaine]

Such condescending BS...

It's Vineri. Don't tell me you are surprised.

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Threads like this are why so many people are against classic servers. They don't hate the servers, they hate the arrogant players who think their idea is the only idea.

Much like it was with the flying threads. Incidentally, the most rabid posters overlap.

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And a 3.3.5 server I play on sometimes is pulling 12k (server cap) on work/school nights, and across the other 3.3.5 realms about 18k on worknight (at least stats from last night.) Heres an image of the biggest realm there.

What does x7 mean? They have six more of these or what?

[Echocho]

What does x7 mean? They have six more of these or what?

It means you get 7 times xp, because private server players can't be bothered to level, that gets in the way of loot.

[Flarelaine]

I am just wondering when specifically all the enthusiasm will start turning into "WTF, how long do we have to wait?". I give it 6 months.

Good point... but I have waited for years. I can handle waiting some more.