Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[Orange Joe]

Do they work exactly the same if I can simply not buy packs and get the exact cards I want directly with actual money rather than a fake currency for ingame purposes?

I could work something out with someone in game to get that item from the lootbox also. (if the item is tradable that is)

[GennGreymane]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH what the hell is that guy saying - my god the insanity.

I mean - yes, videogames are a really cheap form of entertainment compared to other things - BUT THIS WORKS ONLY IF the said game is actually GOOD and KEEPS YOU PLAYING.

Example: WoW. We pay a monthly fee and since the game is (was, whatever let's not nitpick) good, people play it a lot of time and the money spent is justified by the player. That falls in line with the "if you play enough, cost drops quite a lot".

I'm not forgetting that everyone values money differently so what for me is worth may not worth the same way for another person and also the opposite happens.

But the freakin core is: THE GAME NEEDS TO BE GOOD WTF. If a game sucks and you spent 60 euros on it, you're not getting "40 cents per hour of entertainment for 2 years and a half", you have just burned your money on a sh** product.

And also assumed people play only 1 game for a year, which doesn't happen like NEVER. It's much more likely you have one game that gets most of your time aoevr a very long period (mmos, online fps or similar games) plus playing the shorter ones in the meantime.

I'm so mad my keyboard melted.

Its weird how they go into the whole "you get your monies worth if you play like every single day"

like dude..... I dont even play fortnite every single day and that was free. Hell are movies cheap because I can watch the goonies on repeat like my sister forced me to do as a kid because she was babysitting?

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I could work something out with someone in game to get that item from the lootbox also. (if the item is tradable that is)

And now we go into the fun part. What exceptions would governments make to allow revenue streams to continue? What would companies lobby for and accept?

[Orange Joe]

And now we go into the fun part. What exceptions would governments make to allow revenue streams to continue? What would companies lobby for and accept?

If we go by what you are saying. As long as the items are tradable, it isn't gambling.

Kinda where I was going with SWTOR. Which is gambling, which isn't as far as lootboxes go? If it's the trableable part that makes it gambling they just adopt the SWTOR model and lootboxes stay.

[Jtbrig7390]

I definitely know more than anyone working at pc gamer.

Good thing the person they quoted doesn't work for PC Gamer...

I get it all you can do is scream people are wrong without proving it.

[GennGreymane]

If we go by what you are saying. As long as the items are tradable, it isn't gambling.

It would certainly make the comparison to card games much more believable and would lessen the distinctions.

[Torrasque]

I consider them to be gambling. The official excuse as to why they aren't is because you can loot things that, while effective useless, can be converted into in-game currency that can be used to buy what you want.

I see that as just a clever (well not so much, honestly) ploy to gauge more money in the long run from its customers. Buying a massive stock of lootboxes put you against RNG to get the loot that you want. Because of this, the standard deviation for how much money you will spend in relative amount to how much an item would cost outright is much higher, therefore meaning that the customer loses out in the long-run when it comes to cost of goods, paying much more to essentially slot-machine the item that they desire or fork over in-game currency long after they spent more money for said item.

[Orange Joe]

It would certainly make the comparison to card games much more believable and would lessen the distinctions.

Just in case you missed the second part. I think my edit was after your reply.

Kinda where I was going with SWTOR. Which is gambling, which isn't as far as lootboxes go? If it's the trableable part that makes it gambling they just adopt the SWTOR model and lootboxes stay.

[GennGreymane]

Just in case you missed the second part. I think my edit was after your reply.

I don't know anything about SWTOR

[Orange Joe]

I don't know anything about SWTOR

basically like I said earlier. You can buy lootboxes but 99% if not 100% (last I checked) of the items are sellable for in game gold.

[GennGreymane]

basically like I said earlier. You can buy lootboxes but 99% if not 100% (last I checked) of the items are sellable for in game gold.

What can you do with the ingame gold?

[smokii]

i'm totally on board with loot crates being labelled as gambling. if you are paying for a mystery box that may or may not have what you want inside it, that is gambling.

not only are they gambling, they are targeted at kids.

tbh, i'm glad all this shit has kicked off over battlefront 2 and EA's corporate greed. it's gone on too long and i heard this morning EA could potentially lose their star wars license from Disney, as Disney have apparently got all up in their shit about lacklustre sales and the boycott. to the point where EA have "frozen" loot crates temporarily - which means they'll be back in 6 months.

EA need a good kicking for this shit, they've been doing it for years. fuck em, they're cunts. they like buying up little indy games companies, fucking their games over and then sacking the original devs whilst they re-hash it like a shitty batman film repeatedly and try to squeeze as much money out of their new little cash cow as possible until it dies of herpes.

TCG games are also gambling. with 2 caveats.

1. physical TCG games give you actual real cards you can trade - which is why it's called a TRADING card game, you are supposed to swap and exchange cards of equal value with your friends to complete your sets.

when the loot we're talking about is virtual and does not exist at all and can be reproduced with the click of a button, it's a different story.

which is where caveat number 2 comes in.

2. hearthstone and it's crafting/reward system. (dont know about MTG). because hearthstone gives you card dust as both a reward from playing (as well as packs) but also from disenchanting your cards, it doesn't make it suddenly not gambling when you buy 30 packs of cards. it's a safer gamble, because you can potentially craft the cards you didn't loot, but it's not like you can freely trade duplicate cards with your friends. so it's still gambling.

[Coldkil]

Just adding my 2c over the "what are card packs compared to lootboxes".

Personally i think the core mechanic is the same. You pay a fixed fee for a chance to get something shiny - and that's the core issue of the system that can produce addictive behaviour.

However we cannot ignore the fact that you're buying a physical good - so you're basically paying for 15 random cards and that's what you're getting. There's no way around it and there's nothing hidden behind other stuff.

This is a case where the mechanics are akin to gambling, though you're buying something you know the nature of. Can it promote addiction? Sure, there's a lot people spending a lot of money onto MTG cards.

However stickers packs work exactly the same way - you get your album, and buy packs without knowing what you find in them. Maybe the difference is that stickers are going to form a finite collection and odds are not that harsh (plus you can buy single missing ones if you want directly from the company that produces them)?

I don't really know, but at least they fall into a grey area. Lootboxes like BF2 are clearly made with predatory intent. OW ones are way less impacting my still are aimed for gather additional revenue for basically nothing. ALso videogames are way more diffused in the younger generation.

Maybe, but just maybe, we didn't experience gambling habits because it was our parents buying card/stickers packs for us, thus putting a limit on them. I would just see what a young person would do with enough money and the possibility of buying MTG card packs (obviously given he's interested in them). My bet is towards him spending everything on them.

[Rekz]

Corporate drones are lobbying Belgium right now but I think the cats out the bag. When governments realize how much revenue they've been missing out on, they'll get their shit together and drop the hammer.

[Vespian]

If someone gives me a pack of cards, the thing will be opened. Period.

The reason I'm not opening packs 24/7, is because I have to go to a store, buy a pack and then go home and open them. I was at the pre-release event of Ixalan and came THIS close to buying an entire box. The only reason I didn't, is because I don't really have any use for anything in it.

Would I do the same with Iconic Masters, I'd probably empty my savings.

The urge to buy boxes of cards when you're already standing at the counter and MTG is staring you in the face, is almost uncontrollable.

Computer purchases/game purchases do not have this extra required effort you need to put it. You just register your CC once and you're good to go. The ease of purchase is one major reason why it's so damn easy to get addicted.

[Orange Joe]

What can you do with the ingame gold?

pretty much everything you can do with gold on wow.

Nothing (that i remember) is locked behind a different currency. (cept for the lootbox itself)

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Maybe, but just maybe, we didn't experience gambling habits because it was our parents buying card/stickers packs for us, thus putting a limit on them. I would just see what a young person would do with enough money and the possibility of buying MTG card packs (obviously given he's interested in them). My bet is towards him spending everything on them.

how is a kid going to buy lootboxes if not through the parent?


If we are actually going to discus the kid part of this we need to talk about the parents too. what parent in their right mind lets their kid make purchases online without supervision? Last I checked kids can't get a CC to buy online.

[Coldkil]

Corporate drones are lobbying Belgium right now but I think the cats out the bag. When governments realize how much revenue they've been missing out on, they'll get their shit together and drop the hammer.

While i agree, there's much more to it. Possible outcomes:

- nothing actually happens. because "just videogames".

- governments want a cut and profit on them; new regulations appear and it would be senseless to set anything less than 18+. Maybe sales drop because of this and other side effects but very likely game prices will rise to cover for the additional tax cut with even more repercussions. Also consider that this way we will end with lootboxes still in place for even additional money expense

- governments go the opposite way and ban them. This won't stop microtx from happening but at least it's a less shady practice. Nothing else actually changes.

I'm not saying the lootbox ban wouldn't be a victory. I would be happy.

Still, i ask myself why some publishers (because they're the ones pushing for this shit, not actual devs) put all of this behind "we need more money for better stuff" while there are games like The Witcher 3, Horizon Zero Dawn, Nier:Automata and many others that have literally ZERO of this crap and general consensus is just positive.

Maybe someone should just stop making excuses and start pushing better products. This is the example that the market is governed by people buying stuff - they job is to MAKE you buy stuff.

[Deleted]

No. /endthread

[Deleted]

how is a kid going to buy lootboxes if not through the parent?

Steal the credit cards info or Steam/PSN/XBox cards.

Yes, it's fucking bad parenthood, it happens more than we expect. Addiction does lead to serious issues of stealing and fraud.

[GennGreymane]

pretty much everything you can do with gold on wow.

Nothing (that i remember) is locked behind a different currency. (cept for the lootbox itself)

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how is a kid going to buy lootboxes if not through the parent?


If we are actually going to discus the kid part of this we need to talk about the parents too. what parent in their right mind lets their kid make purchases online without supervision? Last I checked kids can't get a CC to buy online.

Maybe you can find ways to see how exceptions would be made with that system.

[Coldkil]

how is a kid going to buy lootboxes if not through the parent?

If we are actually going to discus the kid part of this we need to talk about the parents too. what parent in their right mind lets their kid make purchases online without supervision? Last I checked kids can't get a CC to buy online.

That's exactly the point in the sentence you quoted. Most parents nowadays have zero idea of how all the lootbox system works, because "it's just a videogame". For a kid snatching the CC from their mother purse (we're not talking much about 8yo but more about teenagers) is hella easy - and a parent will notice that only with the first bill.

It's a mix of two - lack of supervision and lack of understanding. Too many parents label stuff as "too complicated" and just ignore it. Plus kids can be super sneaky if they want.

EDIT: addiction to gambling or whatever else usually happens with lack of supervision when you're younger, and lack of control when you're older. And many many times the two things are tied.