[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Valerean]

As a non-UK person, I see there is complete agreement on the fact that the UK economy has been really bad for middle class and working class people. Is this pretty much consensus?

Nah, it's actually going pretty well. Wealth up, employment up, tax revenues up, people in education / training up. There's been a squeeze on living costs (courtesy of record low interest rates since the 2008 crash), but it's nothing like what people with a certain political agenda insist is happening. The biggest problems right now are uncertainty over the Brexit outcome and the massive disparity in incomes / price of home ownership.

[Noradin]

Go ahead.

In all fairness, you should make it a good one, because of this: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuer#Etymologie

Yes, you mean this part: "Einer anderen Theorie nach kann sich der Begriff aus dem Althochdeutschen stiura[3] ableiten, wobei dieser hier der Bedeutung Stütze und, im Sinne von Unterstützung, Hilfe oder auch Beihilfe nahekommt."(~There is a therory that it comes from "stiura" which means "pole", "support", and something akin to "help") Right? You did check the etymology of the German word "Steuer (n)" (~steering weel), too, didn't you? Because that is where we find the exact same explanation. Why do you think both words come with the same etymology? Because one of them is part of the etymology of the other, Wikipedia (and the Duden where they copied it from) don't list every form in the history of a word, just the oldes one. And to be fair, listing "Steuer (n)" as etymology for "Steuer (f)" is kind of moot, thus they list "stiura" for both of them.

As you can see, your own source was enough.
If you want to go into more detail please do it per pm.

[Deleted]

Nah, it's actually going pretty well. Wealth up, employment up, tax revenues up, people in education / training up. There's been a squeeze on living costs (courtesy of record low interest rates since the 2008 crash), but it's nothing like what people with a certain political agenda insist is happening.

Yep that's the level of denial you have amongst tory sycophants who managed to turn a projected 200% seat majority and 28% lead into a hung parliament, despite a billion dollars worth of free media support. No. The public obviously disagrees.

[Deleted]

The UK seems like a really bad place to live to me to, when I compare it to other western-european countries. Almost no employee rights in comparison and very low wages compared to the cost of living (especially housing prices seem fucked up).

It is pretty much that. Of course the official GDP figures are more encouraging and this is what the right tends to focus on. The problem is that official GDP is just measuring month to month volatility in the city and has nothing to do with anything else.

[Mormolyce]

As a non-UK person, I see there is complete agreement on the fact that the UK economy has been really bad for middle class and working class people. Is this pretty much consensus?

I bet you could ask that question of any country and get a resounding yes.

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Speaking about automation. Germany apparently hasn't seen a loss in jobs despite having more industrial robots than the US. I will give the Germans credit for their excellent training system.

I'm no expert on this but I think their economy is quite different - ie they don't have a lot of workers in the kind of low paying low skill jobs that automation could replace.

[Mittens]

I bet you could ask that question of any country and get a resounding yes.

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I'm no expert on this but I think their economy is quite different - ie they don't have a lot of workers in the kind of low paying low skill jobs that automation could replace.

Workers get replaced tho. Most of them make the shift into service or take a pay cut and serve another role in the same company.

[Valerean]

Yep that's the level of denial you have amongst tory sycophants who managed to turn a projected 200% seat majority and 28% lead into a hung parliament, despite a billion dollars worth of free media support. No. The public obviously disagrees.

Lmao you need to get out more. Living inside the Momentum circle jerk is bad for your mental health. Try getting a job with actual normal people or something.

We’re pretty happy on the whole - sure things can always be better, but we’ve got it pretty good. Public services are running, the lights are on, people are able to save money, kids are getting Christmas presents etc...

Chumps like Advanta insist that we’re teetering on the edge of societal collapse so they can justify trying to get their pet communist weirdo elected.


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[Deleted]

Lmao you need to get out more. Living inside the Momentum circle jerk is bad for your mental health. Try getting a job with actual normal people or something.

We’re pretty happy on the whole - sure things can always be better, but we’ve got it pretty good. Public services are running, the lights are on, people are able to save money, kids are getting Christmas presents etc...

Chumps like Advanta insist that we’re teetering on the edge of societal collapse so they can justify trying to get their pet communist weirdo elected.


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I think it is you who needs to get out more. I'm not a member of Momentum or even Labour.

We have the worst consumer credit bubble in history, to say people are able to save is less true that any previous time. Public services are shit as virtually any one who actually uses them will tell you at considerable length. With considerably irony my local council has turned our street lights off, so no, the lights are not on.

Basically you come across as another Nigel, pampered, blinkered, former public schoolboy with no life experience.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Basically you come across as another Nigel, pampered, blinkered, former public schoolboy with no life experience.

Fuuuuuck you!

Inner city comp in the 80s, not a lot of fucking pampering going on there.

Self-employed in a creative industry for 20 years; climbing rungs, no safety nets, no pension yadda yadda yadda, finally reaping rewards.

Always voted Lib Dem, Labour but mostly Green. Never voted Tory.

You know who you come across as? A second rate, social sciences prof who teaches at some crap ex-poly in London. Leering at the pretty girls, jealous of the boys. Inflicting your banal, paranoid, fringe opinions on anyone who can't find an excuse to run away.

In the next election I am able to vote in: I will vote Tory. Just to cancel out your pathetic excuse of a life. I will remind you of this nearer the time.

Cuuuuunnnnnt....

Moderators: I welcome an infraction. Ignoring Advanta and taking a break...

(Infracted)

[Shadowmelded]

Getting away from the melodrama for a moment and back on topic;

Electoral Commission launches inquiry into leave campaign funding.

And a setback for the "We're going to totally change all of the regulations" crowd.

[Valerean]

I think it is you who needs to get out more. I'm not a member of Momentum or even Labour.

We have the worst consumer credit bubble in history, to say people are able to save is less true that any previous time. Public services are shit as virtually any one who actually uses them will tell you at considerable length. With considerably irony my local council has turned our street lights off, so no, the lights are not on.

Basically you come across as another Nigel, pampered, blinkered, former public schoolboy with no life experience.

You know what’s cool? The bus and train that took me from my flat to my office ran on time. It’s also scheduled to run on time when I head home in about an hour.

When I get home, I’ll probably put the rubbish out because the council will be around tomorrow morning to collect it - just as they do every week. That same council is about to spend £150 Million on local housing development. Been meaning to talk to my wife about looking into buying one via help-to-buy or one of the other subsidies.

I’ll probably go visit my dad afterwards, who is receiving round-the-clock care courtesy of the NHS after a stroke.

My point is that just because your life appears to suck, don’t speak for the rest of us. Sure, the UK is by no means perfect and there’s always more to be done - but compared to most, we have it pretty damn good.


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[Slant]

You know what’s cool? The bus and train that took me from my flat to my office ran on time. It’s also scheduled to run on time when I head home in about an hour.

When I get home, I’ll probably put the rubbish out because the council will be around tomorrow morning to collect it - just as they do every week. That same council is about to spend £150 Million on local housing development. Been meaning to talk to my wife about looking into buying one via help-to-buy or one of the other subsidies.

I’ll probably go visit my dad afterwards, who is receiving round-the-clock care courtesy of the NHS after a stroke.

My point is that just because your life appears to suck, don’t speak for the rest of us. Sure, the UK is by no means perfect and there’s always more to be done - but compared to most, we have it pretty damn good.

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So, your bus is on time. And that's your big happy life metre? Germany must be quite the shithole then, we have trains pass scheduled stops by completely. Much to everyone's delight. Well, not the passengers, they're pissed af, but I found it rather amusing. :P

[Deleted]

Fuuuuuck you!

Inner city comp in the 80s, not a lot of fucking pampering going on there.

Self-employed in a creative industry for 20 years; climbing rungs, no safety nets, no pension yadda yadda yadda, finally reaping rewards.

I didn't actually call you a Nigel. You just happen to call yourself that, it is a coincidence.

I was a fan of Tufnel when I was younger, I've nothing against him.

[Mormolyce]

You know what’s cool? The bus and train that took me from my flat to my office ran on time. It’s also scheduled to run on time when I head home in about an hour.

Mussolini would be proud.

[Acidbaron]

Mussolini would be proud.

I doubt he'll even get the reference.

[Valerean]

I doubt he'll even get the reference.

Should exhume him to solve the Southern rail drama.


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[Kallisto]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8071146.html

How to ruin your own country.

Voters were warned.

But of course reality = project fear.

[Slant]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8071146.html

How to ruin your own country.

Don't expect any Brexiteers to come along and admit their mistake. If anything, a few misguided will join and tell you it's fake news. It's sad to witness, to be honest. Such a silly thing.

[Pann]

Voters were warned.

But of course reality = project fear.

In fairness although Brexit has not helped the slump started in 2015.

[dribbles]

Don't expect any Brexiteers to come along and admit their mistake. If anything, a few misguided will join and tell you it's fake news. It's sad to witness, to be honest. Such a silly thing.

No mistakes made.

The silent majority, you know the winners of the referendum, are just sitting quietly with great satisfaction counting down the days until the EU crash out over the cliff without any Brexit deal with one of the richest countries in the world.

I am surprised at salty Europeans kicking up such a fuss, didn't the UK hold the EU back? Instead of constantly moaning away like my old toothless granny they should be pleased that the EU cut free from its UK tethers can now soar to new heights.

Again and again strong and stable Britain gives Europe freedom and an example of how democracy should work.

490 days, 13 hours to Independence day. Tick tock tick tock.