Which Mage spec for Antorus?

[sarj313]

I have the same issue .. Blood dk .. need to reroll to Mage and looking into what spec is the best for Antorus .. also looking for Hunter since we need good ranged dps to be filled... So frost is everyone pointing out. i mained a mage for years back in wotlk / cata and a little in MoP but haven't really raided much with mage since then.

[Biomega]

I have the same issue .. Blood dk .. need to reroll to Mage and looking into what spec is the best for Antorus .. also looking for Hunter since we need good ranged dps to be filled... So frost is everyone pointing out. i mained a mage for years back in wotlk / cata and a little in MoP but haven't really raided much with mage since then.

Roll Frost, set Fire loot spec for the first 2 legendaries. If you're lucky, you'll get the ones needed for Fire (Bracers, Belt, Gloves). If not, switch back to Frost. If you get 2 neutral legendaries as your first ones, write a sternly worded letter to Blizzard asking them why they hate you and your life.

That's all you can do, really.

[RobertoCarlos]

Roll Frost, set Fire loot spec for the first 2 legendaries. If you're lucky, you'll get the ones needed for Fire (Bracers, Belt, Gloves). If not, switch back to Frost. If you get 2 neutral legendaries as your first ones, write a sternly worded letter to Blizzard asking them why they hate you and your life.

That's all you can do, really.

Thats a terrible idea. Go one spec but set legendaries to another. Thats some great 'advice'......

Frost is currently simming as the 2-3rd highest single target damage spec in the game which antorus has a lot of single target. And frost is less dependent on legendaries so set it to frost and hope you get time warp ring/ ice lance bracers. Otherwise its not a huge deal what you get unless you get norg boots then RIP.

[Biomega]

And frost is less dependent on legendaries

That's WHY you do it like that. Frost, you can play without legendaries and not lag TOO much behind. Fire, you are better off not playing at all without the right ones. If you get the Fire ones, great, you have the option of going Fire where Fire is good, and still stay Frost for pure ST if you like. If you don't get the right legendaires, well, back to Frost only it is.

Also if your first two legendaries happen to be Fire, you can still switch back to Frost and get the quick first 2 legs for the spec - if you get neutrals as your first legendaries, you're very boned.

[Celestraza]

All the mage specs are pretty much on par and shine in their own special circumstances.
Overall I think frost is the safest bet right now.

Arcane was perfectly fine, amazing utility (GI + IB) and a true shiner in burst AoE situations (Harjatan/KJ) but also prio add dmg. But very legendary dependant and not as mobile as fire.

Fire was perfectly fine. Very mobile (Avatar/KJ), shines in DoT and AoE dmg (Inquisition/Host/Mistress) and thanks to combustion many windows to nuke down prio targets. But very legendary dependant and brings less utility to the raid.

Frost was perfectly fine. It is not very legendary dependant, has amazing utility (2 iceblocks) and has overall good steady output. But it is less mobile than fire, has poor AoE and has less burst (outside IV).

Take the current sims with a grain of salt.
Frost tier just got huge nerfs 3 days ago, I doubt that was included in the sims.

Even though I had a decent fire spec with legendaries which performed better on KJ (timing of combustions, mobility etc...). I still remained frost on KJ for the utility.
Having 4 or so iceblocks during that fight when you still had 2 hails and have to kite the bait orb makes a huge difference that is worth sacrificing some dmg for. In addition we did not need burst AoE because other classes do it better (warriors/rets).

[Deleted]

With how legendary BLP works atm, you can set spec to fire, gamble your 1st and 2nd one with increased chance, then switch to another spec.

One of the 3 things can happen:
1. You get fire bracers as one of the first 2. Bingo! You can now play fire and you can also get offspec BLP for faster legendaries (as long as the 2 you have are fire specific).
2. You get fire specific legendary but it's crap. Well nothing lost, you have exactly same chance now to start in frost or arcane as if you had zero legendaries. You lost just a bit of work, but first 2 come fast.
3. You get a shared one. Well RIP your offspec BLP and pray it's shard of exodar and not norgannon's. You can then go frost or whatever you can muster with the legendaries you have.

Even if you get good legendary first as long as it's spec specific it's worth switching to offspec to fish for things like shard of exodar - you get increased chance for legendary as long as you don't have any shared ones for that spec.

This is absolutely fantastic advice! Not just for OP, but any soon to be fresh 110 mage (like me, im currently lvling a mage as well) that wants himself in the best position possible in the least amount of time. This should be stickied!

[Disillusions]

If you care about being optimal, probably grind out the fire legendaries and learn that.

If you're looking for an easy time, just go Frost - however be warned, it's the most shit boring spec in the game.

Arcane is for weirdo's who like being weird, that's about it.

[Gungnir]

With how legendary BLP works atm, you can set spec to fire, gamble your 1st and 2nd one with increased chance, then switch to another spec.

One of the 3 things can happen:
1. You get fire bracers as one of the first 2. Bingo! You can now play fire and you can also get offspec BLP for faster legendaries (as long as the 2 you have are fire specific).
2. You get fire specific legendary but it's crap. Well nothing lost, you have exactly same chance now to start in frost or arcane as if you had zero legendaries. You lost just a bit of work, but first 2 come fast.
3. You get a shared one. Well RIP your offspec BLP and pray it's shard of exodar and not norgannon's. You can then go frost or whatever you can muster with the legendaries you have.

Even if you get good legendary first as long as it's spec specific it's worth switching to offspec to fish for things like shard of exodar - you get increased chance for legendary as long as you don't have any shared ones for that spec.

So essentially.. since I've gotten a Sephuz, Prydaz and the absolutely useless Meteor shoulders, I should essentially make a new mage?
I've always had absolutely atrocious luck so I haven't seen another legendary for about 3 months now.

[Marrilaife]

"Rolling a new char" was a valid strategy at the start of expansion when legendaries were extremely hard to get and basically soft capped at 4. Now? Well if you "didn't get a legendary in 3 months" then you aren't actively playing the character or doing any BLP content on it. If you play it so little, then no idea why would you obsess about BIS legendaries. If you clear a raid every week, do m+ cache every week, do the world bosses and farm some AP on Argus (invasions, rare WQ) it's next to impossible to have no legendaries after 3 months. That kind of thing only happens on my alts that do literally nothing just sit in order hall collect gold.

If it was alt for splits, you'd probably be farming your ass off to get 75 traits and in the process get a few legendaries. They might not be amazing, but no one cares to parse on split alt, it's just to flesh out the raid for more loot funneling to mains. And if a mage is needed for spellsteal or iceblock to the point it warrants bringing an alt over a main, then again it's for utility and not for doing top logs. My guild used a rogue alt in Tomb for soaking, the guy didn't have good legendaries for a long time and was doing much lower dps than mains, but we needed his cloak of shadows and cheat death, not dps.

As a mage to parse not only you need the timewarp ring but you also need your raid to arrange BL usage around the mage so he gets the most benefit. So even if you have the BIS but raid leader says no you don't get BL on pull, then you'll probably won't rank.

Btw sephuz isn't so bad for frost / arcane especially if you can proc it. Not BIS ofc but far from "meme tier" it was at the start of expansion.

You can of course calculate your odds of getting better / worse legendaries on a new alt, but there's no guarantee you'll end with better ones and not norgannon's and blink chest.

I know a guy who paid for character boost to reroll another copy of a class for better legendaries, and he got second round of crap. So buyer beware.

My mage got KJBW, shoulder, prydaz, sephuz, but since it's just an alt, I don't need to worry too much it's not BIS, the more crap you get out of the list, the higher chance you'll get a good one next as opposed to a new mage that has to crawl through all the loot table filler again. If half the legendaries are not what you want, the chance of getting specifically the one you want from the get go is very slim. But if you already got half the crap out of the way, there's less and less of them left (since you can't get doubles and good riddance you can't).

But literally the moment I think "oh this alt didn't get a legendary for quite some time" I usually get one within a week. And most of them just do weekly m+ cache, world bosses and maybe a few emissaries. I do run some alts through the raid but not all of them every week.

Of course you can pick a class that is less legendary dependent or has a wider assortment of useful ones, but lots of dps specs have very narrow "BIS" ones.

[brigada]

For mages it's just a luxury problem; all 3 specs perform nicely. I play fire myself because i feel frost is a bit sluggish, but it doesnt really matter.

[Zenfoldor]

I disagree with double ice block being greater utility on at least heroic KJ vs a fire mage with the execution belt. The following just relates to the heroic encounter but:

Strictly because of the meteor in phase 3.

A fire mage is excellent for kiting the meteor.

First, they can maintain 100% dps because KJ is usually sub 30% and scorch and all other spells needed for optimal dps can be cast on the move.

Second, casting scorch vastly increases our run speed, and allows us to move much faster than frost can, while maintaining 100% dps uptime.

Third, there are already plenty of soaks for the big armageddon, the tanks can take it during intermission, and you only really need 1 or 2 max after that. That extra ice block is not gonna make or break it for most raids.

At the very least, they are equal. Frost does not have more utility for that specific fight imho, and I've kited that meteor every time I've ever downed the thing, and played both.

Also frost doesn't have second life, and blink healing. When I play that boss as frost, and I have to kit the orb, my dps dies. I also have much less passive healing, and no second chance if I die to a stupid mechanic, so my opinion is fire is much better on that fight as far as utility for the raid, and ease of use for the player.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me say something about this thread. Last tier, everyone here would have you believe fire would suck for this tier(ToS), and it ended up(imho) the best spec in mythic. My reasoning per boss: when frost won, it barely won, when fire won, it could win big.

Now, the predictions are even closer. I would say fire may be the go to spec, but we shall see.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13

[Soulwell]

This is absolutely fantastic advice! Not just for OP, but any soon to be fresh 110 mage (like me, im currently lvling a mage as well) that wants himself in the best position possible in the least amount of time. This should be stickied!

This is common knowledge to anyone that has been playing legion for longer than a month.

I disagree with double ice block being greater utility on at least heroic KJ vs a fire mage with the execution belt. The following just relates to the heroic encounter but:

Strictly because of the meteor in phase 3.

A fire mage is excellent for kiting the meteor.

First, they can maintain 100% dps because KJ is usually sub 30% and scorch and all other spells needed for optimal dps can be cast on the move.

Second, casting scorch vastly increases our run speed, and allows us to move much faster than frost can, while maintaining 100% dps uptime.

Third, there are already plenty of soaks for the big armageddon, the tanks can take it during intermission, and you only really need 1 or 2 max after that. That extra ice block is not gonna make or break it for most raids.

At the very least, they are equal. Frost does not have more utility for that specific fight imho, and I've kited that meteor every time I've ever downed the thing, and played both.

Also frost doesn't have second life, and blink healing. When I play that boss as frost, and I have to kit the orb, my dps dies. I also have much less passive healing, and no second chance if I die to a stupid mechanic, so my opinion is fire is much better on that fight as far as utility for the raid, and ease of use for the player.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me say something about this thread. Last tier, everyone here would have you believe fire would suck for this tier(ToS), and it ended up(imho) the best spec in mythic. My reasoning per boss: when frost won, it barely won, when fire won, it could win big.

Now, the predictions are even closer. I would say fire may be the go to spec, but we shall see.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13

You can't base a prediction off of the last tiers ending. Fire is also extremely retarded since almost every fight in tos has some sort of cheesy AoE. But since most of the fights in argus are single target or with cleave that ignte doesn't spread to fire probably won't be better than the other two. Killed m kj as arcane as the only Mage and can safely say iceblock certainly isn't a determining factor, that being said this entire expansion has been about what you can cheese with immunities.

[Knifttar]

I remember everyone saying ToS was going to be primarily single target and fire would be worse.

[re1gn1te]

So essentially.. since I've gotten a Sephuz, Prydaz and the absolutely useless Meteor shoulders, I should essentially make a new mage?
I've always had absolutely atrocious luck so I haven't seen another legendary for about 3 months now.

If you haven't seen a legendary in 3months you essentially don't play. Or you play but do literally nothing that can give BLP.

[Aktec]

I remember everyone saying ToS was going to be primarily single target and fire would be worse.

Ye same. But there is a lot of padding in tos that makes fire look better then it actually is, like on mistress you have to actively not aoe too much or the adds die too early, or the dmg on the maiden on avatar when she doesn't have shield up

[Zenfoldor]

This is common knowledge to anyone that has been playing legion for longer than a month.



You can't base a prediction off of the last tiers ending. Fire is also extremely retarded since almost every fight in tos has some sort of cheesy AoE. But since most of the fights in argus are single target or with cleave that ignte doesn't spread to fire probably won't be better than the other two. Killed m kj as arcane as the only Mage and can safely say iceblock certainly isn't a determining factor, that being said this entire expansion has been about what you can cheese with immunities.

Your point is well taken, but there are a few things

1. Fire has been ahead on more bosses in mythic on warcraftlogs nearly the entire tier, because I've been checking and have done a few snapshot analysis on this forum.
2. Gratz on your mythic kj kill, nice work!
3. Like life finds a way, Fire finds a way to cheese. Before ToS came out, I would have been literally ran off this forum for calling fire "viable" in any raiding circumstance, and it turned out that fire was one of the best specs in the game for the tier. The cheese is there, I suspect, it just hasn't found any good fire takers yet.
4. Like always, I'll be dual speccing fire and frost based on top boss dps from warcraftlogs, but we shall see soon enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Ye same. But there is a lot of padding in tos that makes fire look better then it actually is, like on mistress you have to actively not aoe too much or the adds die too early, or the dmg on the maiden on avatar when she doesn't have shield up

Yes, but to counter that point, according to this forum's opinion, before it came out: ToS was mostly single target and there wasn't a lot of padding like in NH to sustain fire. See how it works? That perception is the default perception for any new raid until some guy looking to exploit dps opportunities figures out how to spread ignite or cleave onto something. It doesn't take much, and always err on the side of people figuring out how to exploit trash dps. The sims are very close between frost and fire st, so we will really just have to wait and see. Life finds a way, and fire finds a way to cheese, it's hard to bet against it.

It is a trash dps spec, but I believe devs have to actively plot against it just to keep it even with other specs.

Finally, and I know people hate this, but it's a fact. Fire can move nearly 100% of the time and maintain dps. In a perfect world, that means nothing, but in the vast majority of parses that means fire has a huge advantage even if it sims a tad lower. Frost cannot move like fire for many reasons, I have a big post about it somewhere I can dig up. Scorch filler proccing rotation, increasing speed + execute belt + many more movable gcds that the player can time without major dps loss(instead of random frost movable gcds that player has no control over) is a big advantage. Important in mythic and progression weeks and later on some farm mechanics(such as meteor kiting on KJ, which fire can do with 100% dps uptime and frost is just spamming ice lance).

Also, aoe isn't the only thing that gives fire the advantage. Large + 90% or large sub 30% health pools, ad execute sniping, heavy movement, or longer fights that don't reach time for a 3rd hero, all raise fire(longer execute, > 90% uptime) and lower frost(less % uptime of hero). Frost is in its prime when it gets 2 heros and the fight ends soon after, but fire has a lot of cheesable stuff as mentioned.

[Destroyed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aMDgxOv_fc