"But it won't be real vanilla you damn none-purist filth!"

[Askyl]

Bait thread.
Also, you can't automatically assume that everyone who has played Vanilla share your view.

I played Vanilla for way too long and I don't want anything changed, except maybe Soul Shards stacking to 10. But then again, I'm also more than entirely okay with that never happening. I'm just happy we're getting official Vanilla servers finally, so I can stop playing on private servers.

This hade nothing to do with my view. Im just stating facts. Vanilla was the most envolving during it's life time with adjustments, balancing and changes to the meta game.

People look down on others in this forum for wanting polished features of what we already had. And then get flame by "purists" that dont even understand how much of this we got in Vanilla.

If you want a True Vanilla experience, for real, by Blizzard. Play and enjoy all the frequent changes in the game. The balancing. The additions. What ruined Vanilla was not class balance or better flow in questing. It was the removal of two core features which made the game great.

Sense of achievement
Community

Keep these intact and wow Classic will be great No matter what.

If you want a 1.0 patch wow with raids being released, and after naxx start over again. There are Vanilla private servers that do this for you, you will never have to see changes.

A TRUE VANILLA "PURIST" WOULD WELCOME BALANCING, CHANGES AND FEATURES THAT IMPROVE WOW AS A COMMUNITY BASED ADVENTURE MMO.

Witten in caps for people who have a problem Reading.

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Let's get something out of the way first -- if Blizzard changes Vanilla in ANY WAY, they're going to get major heat for it, and it's going to stir up all kinds of controversy. That alone should make you pause.

Second thing. I was there for Vanilla. I entered the game just two months after release, and I was there for prime raiding (not world firsts, but my guilds were not that far behind. . .).


But going ahead, I'm going to try and suspend some of my normal "classic" server cynicism and address these points one by one. . .




Okay, I can see this. I don't think this would significantly change the vanilla experience.



Nope. A couple of reasons for this: it forces the player to actually read the text and/or seek help for this. Thottbot is gone, but all of the old information is still out there. And you can't tell me that there won't be a separate section for Classic on WoWHead, because there most certainly will be. If players don't look up the information online, they'll be forced to ask their fellow players. THIS is the vanilla experience -- being forced to interact with other players. A lot of people look forward towards this kind of interaction, and by adding quest helpers, you're taking it away from them.



HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE MAPS FOR DUNGEONS. WE GOT LOST IN SUNKEN TEMPLE FOR FIVE HOURS AND ENJOYED IT, SO MUST YOU. Okay, I'm joking -- okay, maybe not at the getting lost in Sunken Temple for five hours part. Vanilla didn't even have maps for instances, which was hilarious for some of the dungeons.

So this comment has two parts. I'll address each part separately.

So I'm going to say okay to dungeons and raids having maps. Getting lost in dungeons serves no positive purpose.

No to loot tables. Loot tables in game will encourage people to just farm specific bosses for gear instead of doing the whole instance. Sure, they'll have it available online, but that forces them to actually look stuff up. The lazy will have to just do the bosses. That means more people complete the whole instance. Think of it as a side benefit of not having loot tables.



Nope. Read the quest text or ask someone. Not having coordinates forces more interaction, which is what a lot of people want.



Nope. You already have a little debuff circle on your target. You don't need a separate one on your player screen. Vanilla mechanics are very simple by today's standards. You don't need to make it even easier than it is.



Doesn't significantly change the core experience, so okay.



HELL NO. Raid mechanics are ridiculously simple in vanilla by comparison to today. Not to mention that bosses would frequently have a cast bar for a number of abilities. And even more of them had specific animations. Extensive boss mods like BigWigs or DBM aren't really needed for vanilla. Don't dumb down the mechanics more than they are. Unless Blizzard specifically blocks it, you'll probably have a mod for the mechanics in about a week, and then everyone will go back to complaining about how fast they're finishing the old raids.



No. If you need information on items or attunements, you should either look it up online, or ask your fellow players. By putting that stuff as a separate interface in game, you eliminate important player interactions. Hell, if I had an in-game text explaining to me about entering Molten Core, I would have missed out on one of the funniest experiences where it took my guild ten minutes to convince me to jump out a window. (And subsequently, someone else dying horribly because they thought they were attuned and weren't. . . ) Putting that stuff in game deprives players of an integral experience.




A lot of mods didn't show up until late vanilla, so a lot of people experienced raids without them. The saying "wait for three sunders" came about simply because at the time there weren't threat meters.


Chances are that enterprising mod makers might write up mods for the Classic servers, so some of your requests are moot anyways. And some people would argue that even the some of the stuff I said okay to WAS the vanilla experience, warts and all. I know that some really long dungeon runs resulted in friendships or connections. . . all due to getting lost.

I think that Blizzard should stay on the safe side and not make any QoL changes, simply because it could change the core experience that a lot of people are looking for.

I don't think you understand my post. You say no to things we actually had in vanilla. Most of the mods I listed came around during the first year of vanilla, which is why I picked them. Just so I can say no to your "most mods came late in vanilla" argument.

[Demithio]

Have to agree with OP. Vanilla rehash will have to have some modification to succeed. While a number of people may want vanilla in its pure form, I doubt it would be a commercial success for Blizzard, and I can see the "been there, done that" factor coming into play. They need to make it stick so its worth their time and investment.

[Schweddy]

Shocking news guys, Vanilla WoW was patched and changed ALL the time. In 2 years and 2 months vanilla WoW got 38 patches. 12 major, with 16 balancing patches. That's more than 1.5 patch per month. Most of the balancing patches included ideas from the community, oh god that's us!

You know a argument is bad when the math isn't correct, 2 years and 2 month is 26 month 26 x 1.5 = 39 so 38 patches is less then 1.5 patches per month.

[alturic]

Man, just reading the simple line about threat meters being relevant again... wrath babies and above are going to be in for a world of pain if they try the "new game". Yes, quotes used as that's what they will view vanilla as.

In all seriousness though, I for-see (if they TRULY don't have the source code of vanilla like they once mentioned) a world of hurt for Blizzard. Either they are going to release what they cobbled together from memory, and leave it be, or they are going to be getting hundreds, if not thousands of threads a day saying "you got this wrong" and they'll be patching it almost weekly.

As an aside, I really have no idea what point in vanilla they should be pinning to release.

[Gavll]

Literally all of that stuff is covered by Add Ons except AutoLoot

[Deleted]

We want vanilla, not vanilla with a bit of chocolate.

[Deleted]

Literally all of that stuff is covered by Add Ons except AutoLoot

So people want others to get their own addons, so QoL changes are optional, but when someone brings up other optional things like optional HD character models, it is just too immersion breaking and not vanilla. hmm..

[Pull My Finger]

All nonsense. If you start changing shit, it's not Vanilla any more. And there we have it: you think you do, but you don't.

Why do you even want Classic servers if you actually don't want the original game and experience? Why don't you play the real current WoW?

[Phuongvi]

People are going shit crazy because you want to be able to autoloot

Blizzard are not even sure if they are going to make UBRS 10 or 5 person, just imagine if they make it a 5 man

[lummiuster]

Standard phrases from people who've obviously never played retail vanilla. They can add all these stuff as default:

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)
- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map
- Loot table on the map for instances
- Coordinates on your map
- CC duration meter
- Mail many items at once
- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability
- Direct information in-game with comments on how to attain specific items or attunements

And a lot more that would increase the quality of life in Classic WoW. You're going to be outraged if Blizzard add them? Because it would remove the vanilla experience?

No, it wouldn't. I'm sure you didn't even play vanilla or was too young to understand mods and addons, but to educate you I'll just tell you all these things were in vanilla.

In all of the guilds I played in, CC duration meter, Raid Warnings, Threat meter, damage meter etc were mandatory. Both in vanilla and TBC. When questie was released, it was hard to find someone not use it. When you did, you told them about it and they loved it and downloaded it right away to get some alts up faster.

There are 2 kinds of people in these forums that I really hope either quit posting or start thinking:

- People who're just here to flame us wanting vanilla again, and then flame us more for wanting some changes.
- Purists who think they're better than anyone else and want everything exactly like it was, including bugs for some reason.

Shocking news guys, Vanilla WoW was patched and changed ALL the time. In 2 years and 2 months vanilla WoW got 38 patches. 12 major, with 16 balancing patches. That's more than 1.5 patch per month. Most of the balancing patches included ideas from the community, oh god that's us!

No one of us who truly wants to play vanilla wants to ruin the atmosphere, difficulty, game play or essence of the game. We all want just that. That's why we're excited for classic. Nerfing rogues a bit by making their attacks scale, making sure warriors aren't the only true main tanks, maybe even making shaman truly a good offtank (which they were supposed to be, but they failed with that) will not ruin the game. It will make it better and more enjoyable for everyone. Both oldschool gamers like me, and new gamers.

Neither will making small changes to BAD mechanics like sending multiple items in raids or adding some extra flight paths. Especially sharding, if they do that, the game would be 100 times better. Think about starting at release and you actually can quest, instead of servers crashing! Amazing.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard will do what's right and if you look at that big poll, they will if they take it into consideration.

There is a 3rd kind of people in these forums and it is people like you. THE WORST.
It is because Blizzard listened to people like you that the game is not enjoable and we cry to have vanilla back.

1) what was the best attribute of Vanilla? It was the community.
You suggest using sharding which will kill the community. Being 6hordes and 7alliences farming the same tigers in stranglethorn that take 2mins to respawn is part of the experience. First, we get to know all these guys that are around our level and on top of it, it forces pvp because you don't want to share the tigers with them.
2) Questhelper. Questhelper helped to kill the community. Before, we needed to google the quest or use Thottbot.com. This was helping make wow community on the net bigger.
3) Balancing. IT KILLED THE GAME. The warrior has plate and is the only viable raid tank. However it can barely tank multiple ads. Paladin can tank multiple ads. Hybrid classes make less dps but when an accident huge pull occurs, they can heal/go bear form and save group. We want this. The feeling of having your own very versatile group rather than the boring strict 3dps-1tank-1healer. You dont get to use the full potential of your class then. Because if they balance their damage, they will have to punish their healing or..
4) I agree with autoloot and mail improvement. For the rest, please don't touch our vanilla

[Gaidax]

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)
- Quest helping mechanic on your minimap and big map
- Loot table on the map for instances
- Coordinates on your map
- CC duration meter
- Mail many items at once
- Raid warnings when the boss is about to use a specific ability
- Direct information in-game with comments on how to attain specific items or attunements

All these will be implemented by addons anyway, except for maybe the first one, so it's pointless really to argue here.

[LaserChild9]

No one of us who truly wants to play vanilla wants to ruin the atmosphere, difficulty, game play or essence of the game. We all want just that. That's why we're excited for classic. Nerfing rogues a bit by making their attacks scale, making sure warriors aren't the only true main tanks, maybe even making shaman truly a good offtank (which they were supposed to be, but they failed with that) will not ruin the game. It will make it better and more enjoyable for everyone. Both oldschool gamers like me, and new gamers.

Neither will making small changes to BAD mechanics like sending multiple items in raids or adding some extra flight paths. Especially sharding, if they do that, the game would be 100 times better. Think about starting at release and you actually can quest, instead of servers crashing! Amazing.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard will do what's right and if you look at that big poll, they will if they take it into consideration.

Why are you even making this post? I mean, what is so hard to understand about this? They are not looking to improve on vanilla, they are looking to set up servers that are compatible with vanilla. Blizzard have said this soooooooooooooooooooooo many times and morons like you just don't seem to grasp it. For example, the below quote is from J.Allen Brack:

Do you think there'll be a line to walk for the team, then? Somewhere between creating that authentic experience that people have asked for, while also figuring out what doesn't make sense anymore? For example, with the Intellect buff, is it important to you that players do need to drink after casting it?

J. Allen Brack: Yes. That's part of the level 60 experience. Our goal is to recreate that classic 1-60 gameplay. Some things changed as time went on, with different patches. How does that get manifested? That's one of the outstanding questions. But yeah, the goal is to recreate that exact experience, for better or for worse.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-big-questions

"Exact experience", not "similar experience with a few qol changes" not "almost exact experience with a few differences", "Exact experience"!

Whether we want changes or not, Blizzard want the authentic Vanilla experience, they do not care about your 'QoL' changes, they want it the same as vanilla for better or worse. Why can't you just accept that?

Ion Hazzikostas said it best when he said "Vanilla means Vanilla", if you cant deal with that, don't play it, you won't be missed.

[Aquamonkey]

- Direct autoloot option (no need to press shift)

Was this not in Vanilla? I thought it was (not talking about AoE looting). Maybe pressing shift just became automatic.

[Ealyssa]

Standard phrases from people who've obviously never played retail vanilla.

Yeah no sorry. Classic will be vanilla. No matter how much you want an "à la carte" world of warcraft, no fucks were given.

[Schizoide]

Direct autoloot (meaning you don't need to use the shift key, not the AE looting added much later) was definitely in vanilla.

Anyway, other than that, none of that stuff he listed will be in classic. Because that's the point of classic. I'm sure it will allow addons, though, as the OP was correct in that most of it was available through addons.

[Chaelexi]

I wish that Blizzard could just come out and say what their plans are so we won't have to get assaulted as soon as we mention one little improvement like autoloot toggle. If they're gonna change some things with the client, fine then at least we'll know. If not, also fine then we can stop talking about changing anything and just deal with what we're given.

I bet they have no clue what they are going to do and what they are not going to do at this point. It is very early in development. As I said in the thread pre announcement "the pro-vanilla players" are very short sighted if they think that blizzard can just spin up an instance of an old server version and it will work fine in the current infrastructure. They are going to have to design the server and client software to run well on new, faster hardware. Put it this way WoW vanilla ran on a 32bit AMD 800mhz processor at launch with 1 gig of ram..... This change alone to 64 bit multicore CPU's and more than 4gb of Ram available will take development time to have a proper Blizzard quality game released. Not to mention the adding of Battle.Net to the game, as well as fixing many of the game breaking exploits available. Many of which were fixed with BC release, like: Item dupping, raid lockout resetting, boss glitching, random evade bugs, item hacking to have higher stats to name a few.

THere is going to be an extensive development period with some flip flopping on what they are going to do.

[Scrysis]

This hade nothing to do with my view. Im just stating facts. Vanilla was the most envolving during it's life time with adjustments, balancing and changes to the meta game.

People look down on others in this forum for wanting polished features of what we already had. And then get flame by "purists" that dont even understand how much of this we got in Vanilla.

If you want a True Vanilla experience, for real, by Blizzard. Play and enjoy all the frequent changes in the game. The balancing. The additions. What ruined Vanilla was not class balance or better flow in questing. It was the removal of two core features which made the game great.

Sense of achievement
Community

Keep these intact and wow Classic will be great No matter what.

If you want a 1.0 patch wow with raids being released, and after naxx start over again. There are Vanilla private servers that do this for you, you will never have to see changes.

A TRUE VANILLA "PURIST" WOULD WELCOME BALANCING, CHANGES AND FEATURES THAT IMPROVE WOW AS A COMMUNITY BASED ADVENTURE MMO.

Witten in caps for people who have a problem Reading.

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I don't think you understand my post. You say no to things we actually had in vanilla. Most of the mods I listed came around during the first year of vanilla, which is why I picked them. Just so I can say no to your "most mods came late in vanilla" argument.

Then to answer in the same vein. No. Blizzard shouldn't implement anything you're suggesting. You had/have mods to do that. Let mods do what you're saying, and keep Blizzard out of it. That way they don't have to deal with bullshit storms after Classic releases.

[scorpious1109]

I didn't start playing till Wrath. Vanilla honestly looks like a huge pain in the ass compared to current. I think they should change as little as possible though when they make Classic. It's not for people like me, it's for people who want to play Vanilla, not Vanilla+.

Also, I don't think we have map coordinates on live now without an add-on,thought that would be real nice.

[Akka]

Was this not in Vanilla? I thought it was (not talking about AoE looting). Maybe pressing shift just became automatic.

Direct autoloot (meaning you don't need to use the shift key, not the AE looting added much later) was definitely in vanilla.

Nope, it wasn't. Was added in TBC.
And yes it becomes automatic (I had some weird muscle memory-moments when switching from WoD/Legion to private servers ).
But it's certainly annoying, especially when you play a rogue and use pickpocket where it doesn't work and you need to click on the content.

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I didn't start playing till Wrath. Vanilla honestly looks like a huge pain in the ass compared to current.

Yes and no.
Yes, it's rough around the edge, there is no denying it.
But at the same time, it's really immersive. There is nothing like having regular mob be an actual challenge to put you right into the skin of a believable hero (that is, not a super-hero which is more about spectacle than adventure). I felt ten times more awesome having to use my skill in inventive way to get alive from a fight against lowly kobolds, than spamming AoE to clean a whole plain of hopelessly outmatched mob.

[Zarc]

Why are people doing this?

People asked for vanilla, Blizzard promised vanilla, they will deliver vanilla. Their ONLY question is what version of vanilla, since there were many patches over a period of about 2 years that is all vanilla. Nobody has asked what they should do to deliver vanilla+ or vanilla Comfort, and they won't, because it would be a lot more work. They will settle on a version or a way of doing progression and make it work on new hardware, not develop new features on top of vanilla. So just stop it with these threads.