Attack Torb :/

[DeadmanWalking]

Except you literally just said how you need Orisa/Rein/a barrier to protect your turret on the cart.

You claim I must have never done it, but have you ever played the Rein who just babysits the turret? It's literally the most boring thing ever. And why bother with that when you can just use Bastion instead, the far better turret.

Dropping your turret as a "distraction" is just a waste of half your kit, and it dies before it even can do anything useful usually. You might as well play Reaper at that point if you want to play a close ranged attacker.



This isn't even close to a counter point or even a response.

You don't have to build around a Winston. He can fit into almost any team pretty well. There is no "not building around your team" at that point, ergo your response makes little to no sense except in trying to insist something that isn't even true.

He doesn't fit into 'any team'. He needs heals that can reach him, you yourself stated those healers. What if I don't want to play those healers because they are not the ones I am practiced at? He should switch because I am moira and I cant heal that far. If we want to capitalise on Winston we need a healer who can reach him. Therefore he does not work on 'any team'.

[Eapoe]

The problem with the ban issue is that Blizz stated 1 thing, then went against that. It clearly states what is and is not considered a bannable offense, and 1 tricking does not give a ban.
The other issue I see constantly pop up is the stigma of Torb. Everyone automatically assumes he is a thrower/griefer/bad player. The funny thing is Torb isn't the only one with common counters and who can "fit poorly" into a team. The same can be said with multiple heroes. Mei is suboptimal, Genji CAN be depending on enemy comp, Pharah falls off greatly at higher ranks, etc, yet no one instantly jumps into calling these people trolls. I've been in enough games to see Genji players being hard countered and useless to the team, I've seen Pharah get shot out of the sky so many times I wonder why the player even leaves the game, yet the players I see in game threatening to get reported or shit talked are typically Torbs.
It's funny that people consider him such a shit pick when I've seen much worse over all the games I've played.

[Deleted]

The problematic thing is:
Quickplay is riddled with people who just "Goof Around", or play without any common sense.

And Competitive is filled with people who place winning over everything else. (Which is a valid thing)

But beeing a niche player, and for example, only enjoying one Pick, and have absolutely no relation or fun with other characters. You might actually also want a realistic challenge.

I´m for: "Everybody should have fun", thats why I´m heavily advocating, that if you wish to be truly competitive, one should queue up as team. To really negate the chance factor. And Solo Queue, should be viewed as "Semi Comp", because essentially you place yourself at the mercy of Chance.

I think its a really tough topic. Because neither is 5 mans fun more important, nor one mans. They are equally important. (In my Opinion).


I´m glad that you actually see reason. I know how you cant control (perfectly) how you feel about stuff, and how it affects you.

Actually, what you are describing is why I mostly stay away from Competitive, even though, I sometimes also wish to be a bit more competitive. But I´m a niche player, I would be the one who would drag your team down, because I dont research, I dont do meta, and whatever pros do to get "the best". I´m just semi. And for that I would get hate.
Which in return I can understand.


This is the highly interesting thing. As I mentioned earlier, what Blizzard may actually do is still "Theoretical".

Now, that we are on a more civilised tone, I want to share the aforementioned Ticket, basically I asked if it was a Bannable Offense, to mute myself from all kinds of Chat, and play one Class (Torbjorn) no matter the Situation, or Map.

Which could be considered trolling, and appear to be a bannable offense, according to reports that such people were banned.

Now, the Answer (which I was expected) was short, basically it said:
"You may play one Hero no matter what, there are even GrandMaster Torbjorns only playing him".
Now, the Problematic part is, this response is still open to a Loophole, where you could argue, not switching to something different when I´m useless is disruptive gameplay. I expected this kind of answer. Which in theory should make me Happy, but still opens up the possibility to punish me for exactly this reason.
(If you wish to confirm my summary, I can screenshot the Ticket, but you would have to Translate it from German to whatever language you read)

But as this ticket answer just confirms that Blizzard (or at least the GMs) just doesnt want to commit to one course of action. This shouldn´t be of much importance.

Again, if there is a clear rule stating whats OK from blizzard, I wont object. But this "Whishy Washy":
"You can play however you want, but if we deem you didn´t play with your team you are screwed" is just wrong, because it contradicts itself. But I can understand if Blizzard is reluctant to do stuff. Because almost anything they can do, can possibly backfire.

If I think about it, you say: (while I can agree with you that it might be Aggrevating to encounter)
OneTricks are not the Majority, and may be even rare. Maybe not as rare as people like me who just suck so much that you would bang your head against the wall. I probably still would have gone the neutral way in Blizzards place.
"Playing with random people is a game of chance. OneTricks are not inherintly bad, and it should equalize itself out"

But maybe you can help me comprehend another aspect. That I cant grasp:
Competitive is a Ranked game, so If you play Platinum, you shouldn´t get me as a scrub in your team.
How can OneTricks have a high rank. And if they cause mass looses due to their presence, why dont they drop out of your ranking?

I´m interested in that causality. Because if I understand ranking correctly, OneTricks should drop in Rank, instead of gaining.


Highly Interesting. Right?

Its just a bit sad that it took so many Postings to get to a (mostly) Civilisedtone.

But I´m of to bed now.

esentialy then it comes back to what i said a fair few pages ago. its essentially down to a GM's judgement or if that vid is to beleaved an AI that knows how you should have played and how the community deems is correct play.

personally id say if i was a gm and couldn't just make torb unpickable on attack maps except for gm rank players and had to accept one tricks my line would be. how obviouse was it that this char wasnt working. if the player picked torb and for the whole game his turret lasted barly any time befor pharah took it out, if he kept deing and obviously being countered to the point of useless id say that is a clear message that he should be switching and would fall on the side of the group. if the reverse is true and his managed to sneak a turret in a nifty spot and hes getting picks and doing work but still loses then though in my heart id know its likly the group was tilted he himself apart from possibly damaging the cohesion of the team wasnt obviously doing bad. id file it under similar sticking on tracer when the groups struggling to break through a choke and your fannying about with the anna a mile away.

theres bad play then theres obviously bad play. if what you should be doing is obviouse and you dont do it then you should be banned

[Jester Joe]

He doesn't fit into 'any team'. He needs heals that can reach him, you yourself stated those healers. What if I don't want to play those healers because they are not the ones I am practiced at? He should switch because I am moira and I cant heal that far. If we want to capitalise on Winston we need a healer who can reach him. Therefore he does not work on 'any team'.

Literally all healers have a way of reaching him.

There is ONE that suffers from that. And most comp teams don't even RUN just one healer. Don't exaggerate to try to prove your point. Winston can still play well without being dive heavy even, he can prevent flankers. If he was only good for dive, he'd never be picked on defense.

Seriously, this isn't even CLOSE to comparable.

[LanToaster]

Playing as a team is well and good.........too bad it isn't realistic, SR gains are lower, people outrank their friends unless they ONLY play together, times vary etc., if you think everyone should have fun yet don't take into account those whos fun said 1 trick is ruining is really hypocritical, also you say people in competitive prioritize winning yet that 1 trick does not..........you don't make any sense.

If you see only Black and White, then yes. It doesnt make any sense.

Priorities are not either 1 or 0, nor Black and White.

If you switch or play Heroes that you are not comfortable, then you prioritize winning a bit over your fun for actually playing.
Playing the Game is supposed to be fun, Winning is supposed to be fun. These two are not essentially linked.

And for example, If I have a good round in (any) game. Its fun, and if I loose, this wouldn´t subtract much from my fun.
But If I was forced into a Role, or Position, or Hero that just isnt fun for me. Then, winning itself wouldn´t even be worth it, because a Win is fun for 10 seconds, while I had to have no fun for 5 - 10 minutes (Depending on how long the game last.

And, I repeatedly explained why my stance on "Everyone should have fun" is not really Hypocritical. Because, as I established a few postings earlier:
If you wouldn´t think he someone ruins your game, it wouldnt essentially be more ruined, than if you had someone who is just very very bad.

Or would you mind if I would play whatever (I deem correct) and just plain suck?

esentialy then it comes back to what i said a fair few pages ago. its essentially down to a GM's judgement or if that vid is to beleaved an AI that knows how you should have played and how the community deems is correct play.

personally id say if i was a gm and couldn't just make torb unpickable on attack maps except for gm rank players and had to accept one tricks my line would be. how obviouse was it that this char wasnt working. if the player picked torb and for the whole game his turret lasted barly any time befor pharah took it out, if he kept deing and obviously being countered to the point of useless id say that is a clear message that he should be switching and would fall on the side of the group. if the reverse is true and his managed to sneak a turret in a nifty spot and hes getting picks and doing work but still loses then though in my heart id know its likly the group was tilted he himself apart from possibly damaging the cohesion of the team wasnt obviously doing bad. id file it under similar sticking on tracer when the groups struggling to break through a choke and your fannying about with the anna a mile away.

theres bad play then theres obviously bad play. if what you should be doing is obviouse and you dont do it then you should be banned

Thats someting I can finally agree on. And the very first time I´v seen someone from "your" side to acknowledge that this is not Rock/Paper/Scissors and one Automaticly wins.

I would actually really second your stance on "Making something aviable on Situation", this could add very interesting Gameplay, apart from fixing the "One Trick" Discussion, (Obviously it shouldn´t just limit Torbjorn on map, but an interesting choice on Heros)

An even more intersting thing, which actually feels weird for me, is the "Teams", in all cutscenes the Overwatch heroes are kinda split in a "Good" vs "Evil" team, maybe one could make each Hero have a side to fight on. And as (afaik) every map gets played both ways. Each Team has to play both sides.
(Maybe Neutral Heros which can be used by Both sides). But that probably wont happen.

But, back to topic:
If we agree on the "Obvious Suck" indicator. This is something one can also make "Factual" rules for.

For example:
If you have X% of the Overall Deaths of your team, you may be considered Disruptive.
If you have less than X% of the overall Kills of your team, you may be considered Disruptive (Not counting for Healers Obviously)
And so on. While this may also affect just terrible players, the First "Action" against a Player in this case I would do.
Is downrank them. So: If you play in a League where you suck so bad that your team decides you are disruptive, you get downgraded.
If you OneTrick, and your teams deem you disruptive, you get downgraded.

This way, in a way, everybody wins. OneTricks win, as they can play (in a Competitive enviroment) how they want. And the people who play Serious Competitive win, because they can get rid of the OneTricks.

[Fluffyfluff]

Except you literally just said how you need Orisa/Rein/a barrier to protect your turret on the cart.

You claim I must have never done it, but have you ever played the Rein who just babysits the turret? It's literally the most boring thing ever. And why bother with that when you can just use Bastion instead, the far better turret.

Dropping your turret as a "distraction" is just a waste of half your kit, and it dies before it even can do anything useful usually. You might as well play Reaper at that point if you want to play a close ranged attacker.



This isn't even close to a counter point or even a response.

You don't have to build around a Winston. He can fit into almost any team pretty well. There is no "not building around your team" at that point, ergo your response makes little to no sense except in trying to insist something that isn't even true.

Its pretty evident that you dont know how to play torbjorn hence why you think he is a troll pick because you suck at him. How did moonman get to top 500 then just playing torb if he is using only half his tool kit because you know as soon as he puts it down its instantly blown up right? While your shooting my turret I'm shooting your face with my long range shot or up close with my shotgun I'm a lot more versatile than a reaper could ever be, plus i can spam heal myself with armor if I'm taking sustained pressure.

here look at this https://imgur.com/a/dGhvz

[Jester Joe]

Its pretty evident that you dont know how to play torbjorn hence why you think he is a troll pick because you suck at him. How did moonman get to top 500 then just playing torb if he is using only half his tool kit because you know as soon as he puts it down its instantly blown up right? While your shooting my turret I'm shooting your face with my long range shot or up close with my shotgun I'm a lot more versatile than a reaper could ever be, plus i can spam heal myself with armor if I'm taking sustained pressure.

here look at this https://imgur.com/a/dGhvz

One person doesn't prove anything.

Nor does several when the comparison is to another 500 players (in terms of top 500). And when one of them even flat out says "Reaper would be a better pick right now", your argument is proven faulty.

And for god's sake, can we stop pretending Torb's resource limited armor pack is a "self heal". It's a death delay sure, but it is in no way a heal, and it stops you from being able to shoot for a second or two, which is more than enough time for any hero to rip you to shreds almost. It's even worse that you use that in the same breath as trying to claim Torb is more versatile than Reaper, who actually has a built in self heal mechanic, while also having a move to engage, and disengage. There is literally no way at all to say Torb is more versatile.

[Fluffyfluff]

One person doesn't prove anything.

Nor does several when the comparison is to another 500 players (in terms of top 500). And when one of them even flat out says "Reaper would be a better pick right now", your argument is proven faulty.

And for god's sake, can we stop pretending Torb's resource limited armor pack is a "self heal". It's a death delay sure, but it is in no way a heal, and it stops you from being able to shoot for a second or two, which is more than enough time for any hero to rip you to shreds almost. It's even worse that you use that in the same breath as trying to claim Torb is more versatile than Reaper, who actually has a built in self heal mechanic, while also having a move to engage, and disengage. There is literally no way at all to say Torb is more versatile.

It proves you can one trick torb and reach top 500. It can be done he/she is my inspiration, I'm going to carry torbing and ignore the haters and cry babies, if i get auto ban i can just appeal it and be unbanned easy. Never been banned or even got a warning from blizz yet tho so I'm confident.

Yeh he is more versatile torb has 2 guns one of which is aimbot reaper has 2 shotguns can only kill at close range which limits him. iirc his heal only activates when he kill something? armor pack is a self heal and can give others to save them from death, and regenerates it on its own, reaper can only kill at short range, torb can kill at any range. when reaper uses is immune walk thing he cant shoot either he is therefore useless right?

[Jester Joe]

It proves you can one trick torb and reach top 500. It can be done he/she is my inspiration, I'm going to carry torbing and ignore the haters and cry babies, if i get auto ban i can just appeal it and be unbanned easy. Never been banned or even got a warning from blizz yet tho so I'm confident.

Yeh he is more versatile torb has 2 guns one of which is aimbot reaper has 2 shotguns can only kill at close range which limits him. iirc his heal only activates when he kill something? armor pack is a self heal and can give others to save them from death, and regenerates it on its own, reaper can only kill at short range, torb can kill at any range. when reaper uses is immune walk thing he cant shoot either he is therefore useless right?

Are you seriously telling me that I don't know Torb because I suck with him while you don't even know Reapers abilities and his passive?

No offense, but you can't debate what hero is more versatile if you don't even know one of them.

[Fluffyfluff]

Are you seriously telling me that I don't know Torb because I suck with him while you don't even know Reapers abilities and his passive?

No offense, but you can't debate what hero is more versatile if you don't even know one of them.

yes that's exactly what I'm telling you, you clearly state that as soon as you put down turret the enemy team instantly blow it up this is evidence you suck at playing torb


The Reaping (Passive): Reaper's sustain ability. As Reaper damages his foes, he receives a portion of the damage he deals back as Health. now i know this. Torb is still more versatile tho in my opinion we will just have to agree to disagree on that one

So i got one thing wrong with reapers passive woop di doo, still he needs to do damage to heal i dont need to do that as torb my self heal regenerates on its own and with scrap from around the field. Reaper can only kill close range, that's a big limiting factor you are ignoring.

[Jester Joe]

yes that's exactly what I'm telling you, you clearly state that as soon as you put down turret the enemy team instantly blow it up this is evidence you suck at playing torb


The Reaping (Passive): Reaper's sustain ability. As Reaper damages his foes, he receives a portion of the damage he deals back as Health. now i know this. Torb is still more versatile tho in my opinion we will just have to agree to disagree on that one

I eat reapers for breakfast with my turret and my 30 metre headshots mmm tasty

I can debate what i like

Are you serious right now?

I said that in regards to you claiming you just randomly drop his turret as a distraction, which yes, any decent enemy team will destroy while it's building. And you're trying to use that as a "clearly you suck as Torb!"? that's not how this works, because that response was a criticism of YOUR playstyle, not how I play.

Dropping your turret as a "distraction" is just a waste of half your kit, and it dies before it even can do anything useful usually. You might as well play Reaper at that point if you want to play a close ranged attacker.

You try to drop that turret in front of Reaper as he's jumping on you? Its getting destroyed in one shot. Realize that the turret doesn't automatically have full health, it "heals" itself up to build, and it still has quite a wind up time, so it's not even that great for just random "drop and gos" like mini-turrets were with the Gunslinger in TF2.

And no, you don't "eat" Reapers, considering even a headshot with torb does 140 damage, and Reaper has a health pool of 250. If they're over 30 meters away, you're just feeding their healers ult charge, since there's literally no way with the speed that Torb shoots and the speed that his shot travels at that you are headshotting them back to back before anyone can heal him up, especially considering a Reaper can just pop wraith form if they're worried. This is just factual.

Reaper has an engage, and a disengage that reloads for him so he can continue to defend himself if he uses it to escape to a health pack. He can reach platforms most heroes cannot. He can flank around the enemy team using these platforms.

Torb, meanwhile, has to try to find routes that the enemy won't see your short body waddling around. Has no escape and no engage, and he has to take time to set up his turret if he wants to ult flank the team, which most enemies will realize when they start hearing you hammering away, or a turret suddenly shooting at them from behind.

It's not even an "agree to disagree", this isn't something to HAVE an opinion on. It's why Blizzard is taking a stand against this. Torb is far too rigid in his playstyle, he doesn't allow for flexibility, and he's WASTING half his kit if you're not upgrading the turret fully.

[Fluffyfluff]

Are you serious right now?

I said that in regards to you claiming you just randomly drop his turret as a distraction, which yes, any decent enemy team will destroy while it's building. And you're trying to use that as a "clearly you suck as Torb!"? that's not how this works, because that response was a criticism of YOUR playstyle, not how I play.



You try to drop that turret in front of Reaper as he's jumping on you? Its getting destroyed in one shot. Realize that the turret doesn't automatically have full health, it "heals" itself up to build, and it still has quite a wind up time, so it's not even that great for just random "drop and gos" like mini-turrets were with the Gunslinger in TF2.

And no, you don't "eat" Reapers, considering even a headshot with torb does 140 damage, and Reaper has a health pool of 250. If they're over 30 meters away, you're just feeding their healers ult charge, since there's literally no way with the speed that Torb shoots and the speed that his shot travels at that you are headshotting them back to back before anyone can heal him up, especially considering a Reaper can just pop wraith form if they're worried. This is just factual.

Reaper has an engage, and a disengage that reloads for him so he can continue to defend himself if he uses it to escape to a health pack. He can reach platforms most heroes cannot. He can flank around the enemy team using these platforms.

Torb, meanwhile, has to try to find routes that the enemy won't see your short body waddling around. Has no escape and no engage, and he has to take time to set up his turret if he wants to ult flank the team, which most enemies will realize when they start hearing you hammering away, or a turret suddenly shooting at them from behind.

It's not even an "agree to disagree", this isn't something to HAVE an opinion on. It's why Blizzard is taking a stand against this. Torb is far too rigid in his playstyle, he doesn't allow for flexibility, and he's WASTING half his kit if you're not upgrading the turret fully.

Yeh this is all just your opinion all your saying is my opinion is better than yours my opinion is right lol and your just making up stories and scenarios to suit your opinion i could quite easily do the same

If torb is such a shit pick how did moonman get top 500 with solo queuing just playing torb you still cant explain to me how that happened.

[Jester Joe]

Yeh this is all just your opinion all your saying is my opinion is better than yours my opinion is right lol and your just making up stories and scenarios to suit your opinion i could quite easily do the same

If torb is such a shit pick how did moonman get top 500 with solo queuing just playing torb you still cant explain to me how that happened.

Except you CAN'T is the issue.

You literally are unable to make up a situation where you can "snipe" out a Reaper from a distance as Torb unless you're playing in some horrible ranking where the Reaper stands in place while no one heals him up. None of that is "made up". Your scenario where you "headshot Reapers for breakfast" would have to be a situation where one player is more skilled than the other, which isn't even worth discussing then, because a skilled Mercy can take out a horrible Roadhog, which shouldn't ever happen in a 1v1 situation.

And I never said Torb himself is trash, I said he requires a team to build around him. Why are there so few top 500 Torbs? Because somewhere along the lines, people caved probably and built around them knowing they're at least a good torb so they might as well go with it rather than be 5v6.

That doesn't mean that's the right way to handle it, as one person's choice shouldn't dictate the rest of the team. Meanwhile, you are still unable to counter the fact that even Fuey, a top 500 Torb, said he was picking Torb in situations where anyone else would have been better, like Reaper.

[Seefer]

If you see only Black and White, then yes. It doesnt make any sense.

Priorities are not either 1 or 0, nor Black and White.

If you switch or play Heroes that you are not comfortable, then you prioritize winning a bit over your fun for actually playing.
Playing the Game is supposed to be fun, Winning is supposed to be fun. These two are not essentially linked.

And for example, If I have a good round in (any) game. Its fun, and if I loose, this wouldn´t subtract much from my fun.
But If I was forced into a Role, or Position, or Hero that just isnt fun for me. Then, winning itself wouldn´t even be worth it, because a Win is fun for 10 seconds, while I had to have no fun for 5 - 10 minutes (Depending on how long the game last.

And, I repeatedly explained why my stance on "Everyone should have fun" is not really Hypocritical. Because, as I established a few postings earlier:
If you wouldn´t think he someone ruins your game, it wouldnt essentially be more ruined, than if you had someone who is just very very bad.

Or would you mind if I would play whatever (I deem correct) and just plain suck?

Frankly if you only want to play 1 hero and 1 hero only you belong in QP, I find several of each role fun to play, I want to win and if someone is being stubborn and is being countered all the time YES it ruins my fun.......If you don't want to play to win why play competitive?

[redwolfrain]

If you want proof of this, go through the motions of pretending to report someone and select "Poor Teamwork". The in-game description tells you that poor teamwork does NOT include playing a character that everyone disagrees with. Keep on Torbin' my friend, turret on the haters.

A youtuber named Rag Tagg just did a video about this. People who are One Tricks are being banned for not working as a team. Example Fuey500 a Torb main. I can't post links yet but here is the video of Rag Tagg talking about it /watch?v=6S4eVGkc-Ek. Also a 7 page blizz forum post about it us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759212168

[Fluffyfluff]

Except you CAN'T is the issue.

You literally are unable to make up a situation where you can "snipe" out a Reaper from a distance as Torb unless you're playing in some horrible ranking where the Reaper stands in place while no one heals him up. None of that is "made up". Your scenario where you "headshot Reapers for breakfast" would have to be a situation where one player is more skilled than the other, which isn't even worth discussing then, because a skilled Mercy can take out a horrible Roadhog, which shouldn't ever happen in a 1v1 situation.

And I never said Torb himself is trash, I said he requires a team to build around him. Why are there so few top 500 Torbs? Because somewhere along the lines, people caved probably and built around them knowing they're at least a good torb so they might as well go with it rather than be 5v6.

That doesn't mean that's the right way to handle it, as one person's choice shouldn't dictate the rest of the team. Meanwhile, you are still unable to counter the fact that even Fuey, a top 500 Torb, said he was picking Torb in situations where anyone else would have been better, like Reaper.

You just said, you literally cant make up a situation, then literally in the next line you make one up LOL.

I snipe reaper all the time i can just prefire the corners you would be amazed how many head shots i get this way.

If reaper jumps me i dodge all his shotgun attacks by strafing and shoot him in head with my shotgun he dies easy.

There you go there is 2 scenarios i can make up more if you like

[Jester Joe]

You just said, you literally cant make up a situation, then literally in the next line you make one up LOL.

I snipe reaper all the time i can just prefire the corners you would be amazed how many head shots i get this way.

If reaper jumps me i dodge all his shotgun attacks by strafing and shoot him in head with my shotgun he dies easy.

There you go there is 2 scenarios i can make up more if you like

No, I'm saying you can't. I was very clear about that, there's literally no way to interpret it otherwise. Not I can't, because your "scenarios" are clearly relying on either

A) Other players just being bad in general, which isn't an scenario worth debating because yet again, Mercy could kill Roadhog then.

B) They're completely contradictory with the facts. You're not "eating Reaper" for breakfast when a headshot doesn't kill him.

You're even proving this further. Torb's body is so short and wide, any half decent Reaper would never be "dodged". When your scenario relies on everyone else around you being bad, you're not proving your point.

[Fluffyfluff]

No, I'm saying you can't. I was very clear about that, there's literally no way to interpret it otherwise. Not I can't, because your "scenarios" are clearly relying on either

A) Other players just being bad in general, which isn't an scenario worth debating because yet again, Mercy could kill Roadhog then.

B) They're completely contradictory with the facts. You're not "eating Reaper" for breakfast when a headshot doesn't kill him.

You're even proving this further. Torb's body is so short and wide, any half decent Reaper would never be "dodged". When your scenario relies on everyone else around you being bad, you're not proving your point.

and I'm saying i can and i eat reaper for breakfast, believe what you want it doesn't make a single bit of difference to my play style

[Jester Joe]

and I'm saying i can and i eat reaper for breakfast, believe what you want it doesn't make a single bit of difference to my play style

You can't unless it's a bad Reaper.
Which would mean you're playing against someone you outskill.

Which would mean either you're in a lower MMR than you belong, or he's in a higher MMR than he belongs. Neither of which are applicable situations to top 500 players, since they'd be all about the same skill level. Hell, it's not applicable in general to ideal competitive matches, since you're suppose to always be placed with people who are similar in skill level. It's not always going to happen that way for sure, but that doesn't mean you should always pick one character because "There's a chance someone on their team sucks!".


Also, side note, I highly doubt this story because you think you can dodge Reaper's hitscan shotguns for some reason when Torb has a pretty large hitbox up close.

[Fluffyfluff]

You can't unless it's a bad Reaper.
Which would mean you're playing against someone you outskill.

Which would mean either you're in a lower MMR than you belong, or he's in a higher MMR than he belongs. Neither of which are applicable situations to top 500 players, since they'd be all about the same skill level. Hell, it's not applicable in general to ideal competitive matches, since you're suppose to always be placed with people who are similar in skill level. It's not always going to happen that way for sure, but that doesn't mean you should always pick one character because "There's a chance someone on their team sucks!".


Also, side note, I highly doubt this story because you think you can dodge Reaper's hitscan shotguns for some reason when Torb has a pretty large hitbox up close.

There's no point talking to you, you believe what you want to believe, you have your opinion i have mine i give you scenarios you just dismiss them so its pointless conversing with you any further.