It's WAR Species 8472 vs The Borg

[Ehrenpanzer]

Yes yes and Hirogen also Hunted 8472 in the Episode the Prey in Voyager, some factions seem to have distinct advantages over others

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Right but they didn't and as you pointed out they did work with The Federation which was smart and to their advantage, sometimes chess is about the long game and they did survive until the end of Voyager, which according to the game they still bounced Back.

Species 8472 managed to have problems of their own especially with Hirogen

Therefore Hirogen could wipe out species 8472 right? Am I doing the insanely biased nerddom right?

[Deleted]

Well if you watched the Episode Scorpion to the end, The Borg played their part and got help from Voyager thus turning the tide, the Borg did make it out on top and in the STO game they were even working on ways to adapt their nano technology to assimilate 8472 which they couldn't do before.

Stop quoting STO, it is not canon.

[Doctor Amadeus]

That Hirogen was hunting a wounded survivor from the war, it was wounded by Voyager designed weapons and was not fighting at full strength.

Who wounded it? Hirogen are the race that are exclusive hunters gatherers they even make it in further Canon if STO is considered that, and last I checked it was, so yeah and they still hunt 8472 and many other species including the Borg

[Ehrenpanzer]

Species 8472 weren't exactly enamoured with other races either. Didn't Kes say that in her telepathic links that 8472 wanted to destroy all life in the non fluidic space?

That was later dismissed to be a specific angry being, not representative of the entire species

[Rotted]

Biological and Synthetics, vs the Apex or Organic technology which side would you pick.

I could be wrong here, but if STO is canon, the borg were successful in finding a way to assimilate members of 8472, but for some stupid reason it was confined to a single borg ship iirc not uploaded to the hive

[Doctor Amadeus]

Stop quoting STO, it is not canon.

It doesn't have to be Canon, going just by the Series, and the books after the Borg survive, possibly being on the brink of annihilation, isn't the same as being eliminated because plenty of other factions and societies in Star Trek have bounced back.

[Shiny212]

Therefore Hirogen could wipe out species 8472 right? Am I doing the insanely biased nerddom right?

The Hirogen aren't really so much a unified nation, they are a splintered species that obsessively seek out prey to hunt, they've no interest in conquering and aren't suited for it. They'd never be able to destroy either the Borg nor species 8472.

[the game]

Yes yes and Hirogen also Hunted 8472 in the Episode the Prey in Voyager, some factions seem to have distinct advantages over others

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Right but they didn't and as you pointed out they did work with The Federation which was smart and to their advantage, sometimes chess is about the long game and they did survive until the end of Voyager, which according to the game they still bounced Back.

Species 8472 managed to have problems of their own especially with Hirogen

The hirogen hunted one single injured member of species 8472. Come on dude are you just trying to bait people?

[Doctor Amadeus]

Therefore Hirogen could wipe out species 8472 right? Am I doing the insanely biased nerddom right?

I don't know I think the ability to adapt and to problem solve even if it's only ever a solution presenting itself, the borg were nor ended, so they remain intact, and many societies suffer a defeat and come back

[Ehrenpanzer]

Are you being fucking serious right now? That "fanfic" is a Wiki based entirely off of established canon from canonical episodes within the Star Trek universe. All of the information therein is completely fucking accurate and verifiable.

Planets. 8472 was wiping out planets, while the Borg couldn't even scratch one of their ships. That's pretty cut and dry; no real room for interpretation. Whatever your opinion on the provided source, it's fucking canon that within the official Star Trek universe, Janeway's saving throw was the only thing keeping The Borg from annihilation.

You should rename yourself to "King Sourball up his ass". Getting THAT pissed off over an imaginary universe where imaginary species fight each other with near magical levels of scientific powers probably means you need to see a shrink or have your mom give you a hug or something.....

Back to topic: YES, SPECIES 8472 WAS WINNING HANDILY AT THE TIME, but AT THE TIME IS NOT A REFLECTION OF HOW WARS CAN GO, need proof? Go ask Germany....

[Shiny212]

Well if you watched the Episode Scorpion to the end, The Borg played their part and got help from Voyager thus turning the tide, the Borg did make it out on top and in the STO game they were even working on ways to adapt their nano technology to assimilate 8472 which they couldn't do before.

Eh, I did watch it? Voyager gave the Borg a one-off repellent against species 8472, they are not able to replicate the technology for further use. And I don't believe the star trek games are canon?

You should rename yourself to "King Sourball up his ass". Getting THAT pissed off over an imaginary universe where imaginary species fight each other with near magical levels of scientific powers probably means you need to see a shrink or have your mom give you a hug or something.....

Back to topic: YES, SPECIES 8472 WAS WINNING HANDILY AT THE TIME, but AT THE TIME IS NOT A REFLECTION OF HOW WARS CAN GO, need proof? Go ask Germany....

What you even doing here if you don't wanna discuss it? xD Go play with your "jock friends" then since you're too cool for us.

[King Shark]

Well if you watched the Episode Scorpion to the end, The Borg played their part and got help from Voyager thus turning the tide, the Borg did make it out on top and in the STO game they were even working on ways to adapt their nano technology to assimilate 8472 which they couldn't do before.

It's not even certain that STO is a part of the live action canon. Especially since they've added elements from the Kelvin Timeline, throwing shit for a loop.

"The Star Trek canon is generally defined as all live-action television series and feature films released by Paramount Pictures. With the release of Star Trek: The Animated Series on DVD, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is now listing the cartoon series (aired 1973–1974), as a part of established canon.

A large body of licensed Star Trek works exists that, while approved for publication by Paramount, are not considered part of Star Trek canon. This includes novels, comics, games, and older reference books such as the Star Fleet Technical Manual."4

You should rename yourself to "King Sourball up his ass". Getting THAT pissed off over an imaginary universe where imaginary species fight each other with near magical levels of scientific powers probably means you need to see a shrink or have your mom give you a hug or something.....

Back to topic: YES, SPECIES 8472 WAS WINNING HANDILY AT THE TIME, but AT THE TIME IS NOT A REFLECTION OF HOW WARS CAN GO, need proof? Go ask Germany....

Don't confuse my vulgarity as a reflection of my mood. I'm a sailor, I cuss like one. I'm happy as a pig in fucking shit right now. So the ad hominem is rolling right off my back with a hearty fucking chuckle.

And on topic: Germany hasn't glassed entire planets, nor do they have the technology to do so. Come back to me when they do. The Borg got saved by an element entirely separate from the Collective: Janeway and Voyager. I assumed this was a straight up 1 to 1 match up between The Borg and 8472, not The Borg and the lone Federation ship actually responsible for any headway made against 8472, which subsequently bailed their Collective asses out vs 8472.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The hirogen hunted one single injured member of species 8472. Come on dude are you just trying to bait people?

I am not baiting people, you should use another term bait it implying that I am specifically facilitating a specific response, I am simply just saying that 8472 have weakness in their armor, the fact it was the Doctors advancing Borg nanite technology that created the weapon to destroy 8472 a marriage between Both Fed and Borg technology.

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Eh, I did watch it? Voyager gave the Borg a one-off repellent against species 8472, they are not able to replicate the technology for further use. And I don't believe the star trek games are canon?



What you even doing here if you don't wanna discuss it? xD

They don't need to the point is they made it out in the series until the end, and the books afterwards confirm the borg still survived even after that, so again down doesn't mean out and The Borg was far from that which I am not so sure can be said for 8472

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I could be wrong here, but if STO is canon, the borg were successful in finding a way to assimilate members of 8472, but for some stupid reason it was confined to a single borg ship iirc not uploaded to the hive

Yes, that's true but if STO is included officially not I would say it shows advancement.

[the game]

I am not baiting people, you should use another term bait it implying that I am specifically facilitating a specific response, I am simply just saying that 8472 have weakness in their armor, the fact it was the Doctors advancing Borg nanite technology that created the weapon to destroy 8472 a marriage between Both Fed and Borg technology.

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They don't need to the point is they made it out in the series until the end, and the books afterwards confirm the borg still survived even after that, so again down doesn't mean out and The Borg was far from that which I am not so sure can be said for 8472

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Yes, that's true but if STO is included officially not I would say it shows advancement.

STO is not included officially. You are literally the only one trying to use it as canon. It's a video game that is likely not part of the main universe.

[Doctor Amadeus]

It's not even certain that STO is apart of the live action canon. Especially since they've added elements from the Kelvin Timeline, throwing shit for a loop.

"The Star Trek canon is generally defined as all live-action television series and feature films released by Paramount Pictures. With the release of Star Trek: The Animated Series on DVD, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is now listing the cartoon series (aired 1973–1974), as a part of established canon.

A large body of licensed Star Trek works exists that, while approved for publication by Paramount, are not considered part of Star Trek canon. This includes novels, comics, games, and older reference books such as the Star Fleet Technical Manual."4


Don't confuse my vulgarity as a reflection of my mood. I'm a sailor, I cuss like one. I'm happy as a pig in fucking shit right now. So the ad hominem is rolling right off my back with a hearty fucking chuckle.

And on topic: Germany hasn't glassed entire planets. Come back to me when they do.

TO my understanding STO is cannon but takes place in the PRIME arc, not the alternative, but considering what you said, I don't know @ImmortanRich is probably correct it isn't cannon but it doesn't need to be to illustrate my point the Borg did survive. Down =/= Out

[Shiny212]

I am not baiting people, you should use another term bait it implying that I am specifically facilitating a specific response, I am simply just saying that 8472 have weakness in their armor, the fact it was the Doctors advancing Borg nanite technology that created the weapon to destroy 8472 a marriage between Both Fed and Borg technology.

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They don't need to the point is they made it out in the series until the end, and the books afterwards confirm the borg still survived even after that, so again down doesn't mean out and The Borg was far from that which I am not so sure can be said for 8472

But if we are to hypothesize based on canon solely. We know the Borg couldn't modify their nanoprobes on their own, and we know they ceased to have that ability after severing ties with voyager. It's unlikely the Borg would magically gain that knowledge without assimilating the EMH of voyager, which we know doesn't happen since the final episode of Voyager details history quite a ways into the future.

Hence, the Borg were rescued by Voyager, and would be dead and gone without it. So in a hypothetical scenario with no Voyager, just species 8472 and the Borg, the Borg lose.

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I am not baiting people, you should use another term bait it implying that I am specifically facilitating a specific response, I am simply just saying that 8472 have weakness in their armor, the fact it was the Doctors advancing Borg nanite technology that created the weapon to destroy 8472 a marriage between Both Fed and Borg technology.

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They don't need to the point is they made it out in the series until the end, and the books afterwards confirm the borg still survived even after that, so again down doesn't mean out and The Borg was far from that which I am not so sure can be said for 8472

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Yes, that's true but if STO is included officially not I would say it shows advancement.

The Borg survived because of Voyager. Voyager defeated species 8472, not the Borg. Their survival as you put it, isn't attributed to the Borg, but to Janeway, the Doctor and the crew of Voyager.

[Doctor Amadeus]

But if we are to hypothesize based on canon solely. We know the Borg couldn't modify their nanoprobes on their own, and we know they ceased to have that ability after severing ties with voyager. It's unlikely the Borg would magically gain that knowledge without assimilating the EMH of voyager, which we know doesn't happen since the final episode of Voyager details history quite a ways into the future.

Hence, the Borg were rescued by Voyager, and would be dead and gone without it. So in a hypothetical scenario with no Voyager, just species 8472 and the Borg, the Borg lose.

Correct but they do show the capacity to negotiate to come up with solutions and problem solve, 8472 didn't again everyone everything might have a weakness. I mean the Klingons freaking planet exploded, yes they bounced back.

Doesn't make them any more or less of a threat, especially not everyone, again I am going as strictly by the rules as they are being laid out even without STO as being Canon, the Borg Still survived.

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But if we are to hypothesize based on canon solely. We know the Borg couldn't modify their nanoprobes on their own, and we know they ceased to have that ability after severing ties with voyager. It's unlikely the Borg would magically gain that knowledge without assimilating the EMH of voyager, which we know doesn't happen since the final episode of Voyager details history quite a ways into the future.

Hence, the Borg were rescued by Voyager, and would be dead and gone without it. So in a hypothetical scenario with no Voyager, just species 8472 and the Borg, the Borg lose.

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The Borg survived because of Voyager. Voyager defeated species 8472, not the Borg. Their survival as you put it, isn't attributed to the Borg, but to Janeway, the Doctor and the crew of Voyager.

Well you seem to be forgetting something without the borg Voyager and the Feds would have fared much worse considering 8472 was going to purge everyone, so let's not be so quick to suggest one didn't need the other.

Sure they could have sat by let the Borg be beat back and maybe destroyed, which didn't happen, the question was without the Borg Technology The Feds wouldn't have been in a good position either.

[Theodarzna]

I'm rooting for Craftworld Ulthwe.

[Shiny212]

Correct but they do show the capacity to negotiate to come up with solutions and problem solve, 8472 didn't again everyone everything might have a weakness. I mean the Klingons freaking planet exploded, yes they bounced back.

Doesn't make them any more or less of a threat, especially not everyone, again I am going as strictly by the rules as they are being laid out even without STO as being Canon, the Borg Still survived.

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Well you seem to be forgetting something without the borg Voyager and the Feds would have fared much worse considering 8472 was going to purge everyone, so let's not be so quick to suggest one didn't need the other.

Sure they could have sat by let the Borg be beat back and maybe destroyed, which didn't happen, the question was without the Borg Technology The Feds wouldn't have been in a good position either.

Very true, it was this line of reasoning Janeway used to justify helping the Borg, that 8472 "probably" would be a threat too great to handle, however I'm inclined to think the Federation would rise to the occasion and beat them too. They'd take casualties though, so good on Janeway for sparing federation lives.

I'm rooting for Craftworld Ulthwe.

Hah, never bring up 40K, it's unfair to everyone else

[Deleted]

I'm rooting for Craftworld Ulthwe.

Ulthwe is for wimps, Biel-Tan rules.