Pit bulls maul a defenseless dog to death

[Halyon]

"It's the owners that are the problem" reminds me of the gun debates in the US, and I tend to fall the same way that I do there. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, if they're causing harm and we're unable to do anything about the people who probably are causing the problem, then they have to be banned. If you're going to be irresponsible, nobody gets to have them. It's the fault of those people, blame them.

Yet people have them anyway, shit still happens...banning stuff doesn't help that much. Especially not for dogs, shitty owners will just own other breeds and fuck those over.

[Deleted]

I hope you have to watch your family get murdered in front of you by animals like this.

Dafuq?

/char

[Ghostpanther]

"It's the owners that are the problem" reminds me of the gun debates in the US, and I tend to fall the same way that I do there. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, if they're causing harm and we're unable to do anything about the people who probably are causing the problem, then they have to be banned. If you're going to be irresponsible, nobody gets to have them. It's the fault of those people, blame them.

In the US, fully automatic machine guns, while not totally banned, they are heavily regulated. I see no issue with doing the same thing with certain breeds of dogs. No need to ban them as such, which even if you did try, may fall under a violation of the Constitution here. And yes, property rights is a Constitutional right. Thus it could be argued as a stance when it comes to dogs and cats, as the owners being citizens and pets considered to be personal property.

[pateuvasiliu]

it would ultimately be better this way.

less unqualified people having children = probably less criminals born from people in less than good situations.

you can't hide a pregnancy, either, unless the woman is gigantic. so it would be easy to track them down and apply the law.

You'd run out of families that adopt very fast. Then you have to force women to abort.

This goes to some Nazi shit real fast.

[unbound]

Are you even trying? Figures below are for 100% confirmed dog attacks by Animals 24-7. When a breed or a crossbreed has been identified by a qualified person and all questionable evidence omitted. What do you mean I can not show you a Pit Bull breed? I am perfectly aware that it is a collective name for 5 main breeds and their crossbreeds. But that does not change the fact that all of them show similar behavior and tendencies.

Sigh. It seems you are the one that is having trouble understanding reality. The stats you threw out are accurate but irrelevant because they are missing context.

How about you actually read what I wrote and start thinking about how this all works.

Depending on which breeds you want to put in the "pit bull" grouping, there are between 3 million and 5 million of them in the US today. That is a fact.

So those tables that show 4.9% are clearly wrong because they are in the thousands, not well over 100,000. So the table is clearly wrong with the percentage. Even if you want to believe that the numbers are completely accurate (big problems with that assumption shown below), we are still talking no more than 0.16% of pit bulls if you use the lesser number or 0.094% if you take the larger number. In other words, far less than even 1/4 of 1%.

Based on the logic of the stats you provide, you could also claim that domestic U.S. made automobiles are highly dangerous and should be banned because there are more Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Jeep, and Lincoln crashes each year than Hondas and Toyotas, etc.

Furthermore, the reality is that there is no standard definition of a pit bull. Depending on your reference source it is between 4 and 6 named breeds plus any mutts that look that way. Many shelters label mutts pit bulls even when there is no DNA of the 4 to 6 breeds included in that designation (http://www.toledoblade.com/local/201...pit-bulls.html).

Finally, we have a reporting problem with numbers anyways making your tables pointless. It is common to simply label most dog attacks as pit bulls even beyond the 4 to 6 named breeds and even how shelters label them. State Farm doesn't modify their insurance rates based on breed because they have admitted that “Pit bulls in particular are often misidentified when a bite incident occurs, so reliable bite statistics related to the dogs’ breed are unreliable and serve no purpose.”

Overall, you are far more likely to die from a hot dog (1 chance in 3,375) compared to any dog attack (1 chance in 116,448).

And that is reality.

[RobertoCarlos]

Snip

Ahh the old Myth "Fatal attack statistics about pit bulls are false"

Pro-pit bull groups argue that the 20-year fatal dog attack study (from 1979 to 1998) issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in September 2000 is inaccurate because the study relied "in part" on newspaper articles. Pit bull advocates say that pit bull fatalities are more extensively reported by the media, therefore the authors of the study (most holding PhD credentials) must have "miscounted" or "double counted" the number of pit bull fatalities.

As stated in the CDC report, the authors collected data from media accounts and the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) registry of fatal dog attacks. Also, all five authors, Jeffrey Sacks, Leslie Sinclair, Julie Gilchrist, Gail Golab and Randall Lockwood, openly oppose breed-specific legislation. This bias is clearly reflected in the CDC report. If discrepancies were made in the report, it seems more likely that fatal pit bull attacks were underreported not over reported


and of course your 2nd myth "It's impossible to identify a pit bull"

Pit bull advocates frequently claim that the average person cannot correctly identify a pit bull. As discussed in the Pit Bull FAQ, the pit bull is a class of dogs made up of several close dog breeds. This false claim is designed to confuse the public just like the breed's history of changing names is intended to do. As was recently told to us by a top U.S. animal control enforcement officer, "If it looks like a pit bull, it usually is."

Pit bull advocates have even created deceptive online tests to further confuse the media, policymakers and the public. These tests are inaccurate and intentionally crafted to show that the average person cannot correctly identify a pit bull. Once one begins to understand the frame, posture and distinct head shape and jaw size of a pit bull, identification is immediate.

https://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-d...bull-myths.php

[Celista]

No joke, a friend of mine from college just posted in FB that her chihuahua had been mauled to death by a dog on their walk, and a second one was seriously injured. Take precautions when walking your dogs, people!

[Rudkobing]

Why would you let your pet dogs do that to another dog? That Pit bull owner sucks.... :-(

[dwarven]

their trainer/owner is the piece of shit, not the dog.

also, when i walk my dog i usually try to find a nice big stick to carry around too. usually just a limb thats fallen from a tree or something. i live in a town with a fair share of stray or feral animals, so you gotta be prepared.

Are you saying pitbull owners are more cruel than the owners of other dogs? Because pitbulls are, statistically, the most dangerous and vicious breed by a wide margin.

[Stop Pretending]

There's a reason this dog leads all other breeds in fatalities, and it's not just the owners.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

Are you saying pitbull owners are more cruel than the owners of other dogs? Because pitbulls are, statistically, the most dangerous and vicious breed by a wide margin.

nope, i was saying that in this particular case the owner is a piece of shit.

see what else i've said here, i've known many good pits from good owners.

[Celista]

I have a hunting knife and pepper spray. This story hits close to me as I have two females beagles. Those other dogs would be dead and it would take everything I have not to stab that son of a bitch to death in this story.

I'm gonna be honest, I haven't carried pepper spray since Chicago and I *know* I should. Not just for myself, either. I'm going to order some online tonight.

I bought some bear spray for my trip back home this summer, but the container is the size of a 16oz soda can...not really feasible to haul around, and works differently than human pepper spray (more of a spray than a stream that human pepper sprays have).

[TirielWoW]

No joke, a friend of mine from college just posted in FB that her chihuahua had been mauled to death by a dog on their walk, and a second one was seriously injured. Take precautions when walking your dogs, people!

Wouldn't it be nice if people had to bear the responsibility for what their pets do?

[Celista]

Wouldn't it be nice if people had to bear the responsibility for what their pets do?

There are consequences but in my opinion they are not sufficient. Dogs are basically considered property and you can recoup the value of the animal/veterinary expenses in small claims court.

What I think should happen is that animals raised for protection purposes should require a license and if your animal causes harm to another owner's animal that should be considered a form of animal neglect, from misdemeanor up to a felony if it results in death.

[TirielWoW]

There are consequences but in my opinion they are not sufficient. Dogs are basically considered property and you can recoup the value of the animal/veterinary expenses in small claims court.

What I think should happen is that animals raised for protection purposes should require a license and if your animal causes harm to another owner's animal that should be considered a form of animal neglect, from misdemeanor up to a felony if it results in death.

Animals given protection training are actually safer than those left untrained. A dog who knows when they are allowed to bite is a lot calmer and less stressed out.

[Allybeboba]

As I have stated many, many times on this forum.
A person can provide sources to their heart’s content. People on this particular forum that will choose to either disbelieve the source, disbelieve what the source states or simply poopoo it away if they don’t agree with it or if those particular presented facts go against their chosen agenda of the day.

[Celista]

Animals given protection training are actually safer than those left untrained. A dog who knows when they are allowed to bite is a lot calmer and less stressed out.

Yeah the repercussions I listed were for all dogs, not just licensed ones. I just think dogs raised for protection should have a license requirement. Maybe take a $40 class, similar to concealed carry licenses.

[Gaaz]

...

Yes, yes... We all know the myths and tales that are told by the pro-Pit Bull groups. They have been debunked multiple times, even by their own tests, but that does not seem to stop them. Let me ask you a question - have you owned a Pit Bull? In my life I owned or taken care of (for an extended period of time, a couple of weeks minimum) 23 dogs. I can deal with Rottweilers, Afghan Shepherds, Black Terriers, Dobermans no problem. But under no condition I would allow an unrestrained Pit Bull to be among my family members. My neighbor had one. American Pit Bull to be precise. He was also a "it is a wonderful, calm dog. No harm can come from it". But then, it somehow managed to run through the gate when his mother was talking with someone and it was open, and attacked another dog who was walking on a leash nearby, mauling it pretty badly. It was not fatal, but they had to pay for surgery, pay that guy not to sue them and were extremely lucky that the owner of that dog did not get attacked as well while trying to break them up. Because if he did, it would have been a criminal offence in my country with a possible hefty jail time.
But shit happens, right? Dogs fight all the time. That was his attitude as well. Until this dog tore his lip open when, he described it as "playing". Again, shit happens. Accidents are random and can happen to anyone. Yeah... after the dog bit his sister's child and they had to make a couple of dozen stitches to close the wound in the hospital, for some reason he moved the dog to a separate kennel, not allowing his own children to play with it without supervision and not allowing it to enter living areas. He was still the advocate for "it is a wonderful, best breed in the world, wonderful with children", but somehow, his actions speak more clearly to me than his words. And before anyone asks - no, the dog was never abused or treated badly. Last year they had to put this dog down - a combination of old age and several nasty diseases made its toll. So he got a couple of new dogs. And you know what breeds did he get? Stafford? American Pit Bull? Nope! A German Shepherd and a Finnish Laika. So much for the "children friendly, best breed in the world"...

[TirielWoW]

Yeah the repercussions I listed were for all dogs, not just licensed ones. I just think dogs raised for protection should have a license requirement. Maybe take a $40 class, similar to concealed carry licenses.

Frankly, people who raise Pit Bulls for protection are assholes anyway. It's a violation of the temperament of those dogs. They were historically bred to love people, with people aggression strictly bred out of them. These new "thuglife" assholes are ruining these damn dogs.

[Gaaz]

Frankly, people who raise Pit Bulls for protection are assholes anyway. It's a violation of the temperament of those dogs. They were historically bred to love people, with people aggression strictly bred out of them. These new "thuglife" assholes are ruining these damn dogs.

I somehow do not think so. Not from my experience, not from common sense is there any indication of the "love people" approach used to breed these dogs.

Human-aggressive pit bulls were "culled"
Historically, it is believed that dogfighters removed human-aggressive pit bulls from the gene pool. "Man biters," as dogmen referred them, were "culled" to prevent dog handlers from suffering vicious bites. However, dogmen themselves and pedigrees show a different story. As far back as 1909, George Armitage shares a story in, "Thirty Years with Fighting Dogs." He describes Caire's Rowdy as not a mere man-biter, but as a "man-eater," the most dangerous biter of all.
In more modern years, a substantial number of champion (CH), grand champion (GR CH) and register of merit (ROM) fighting dogs carry the title of a man-biter or a man-eater. These pit bulls were championship-breeding stock, whose famed owners never for a moment considered culling the dogs. Some of the most well known dogs include: Adams' GR CH Zebo, Indian Bolio ROM, Garner's CH Chinaman ROM, Gambler's GR CH Virgil and West's CH Spade (man-eater).
In 1974, after a series of high profile news articles written by Wayne King and published by the New York Times, the image of the ferocious fighting pit bull moved from the shadowy world of dogmen into the mainstream. This period, between 1975 and 1979, is known as the "leakage period" when the breeding of pit bulls drastically increased through gang members and drug dealers, who wanted the "toughest dog" on the block, as well as by pet pit bull breeders.
While some dogmen of the past may have culled human-aggressive dogs to keep their stock free of man-biters, once the leakage period began, there is no evidence that similar selective pressures were maintained.