Do you prefer Wod or Legion Hunter overall?

[Charge me Doctor]

Cancerous? Give me a break. The highly mobile and versatile style of play made Hunters a unique, fun, and exciting option. You people harp on about how this was somehow bad for the class, yet the class was more popular than ever when it had that playstyle. Do you want literally 100% of ranged specs in the game to be the same, immobile, glass-cannon caster?

And no, you could not play with a castseuqnce macro at any time since Burning Crusade. That makes it ironic since you claim the later model of the class was worse yet it was BC that had the infamous 1 button macro for all our specs. And we never beat Warlocks on DPS. We always traded off damage for mobility. You're pretty much talking out your ass at this point.

Yes. Cancerous. It wasn't "highly mobile", it was "immune to any sort of movement punishment". Hunters back then in AotF times were basically ranged melee, who had 100% uptime no matter what with no downside whatsoever - it was flawed design and it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. The only weakness of ranged characters - their inability to deal 100% of their damage on the move removed not by a cooldown, but by a freaking toggle. It's ridiculous.

And yes, you could do a 1 button MM rotation, i even had it stored on my hunter alt:
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget] Kill Command
/cast Silencing Shot
/castsequence Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot
/castsequence Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
And i probably got it from this very forum, and i was able to sit at 4-7 spots on meters (we weren't best players, but this is borderline botting when you bind it to wheel scroll and just run around with wasd)

Oh yeah, disregard all of that, i'm retarded and was complaining about cata hunter, not wotlk one. But one button macro is definitely from wotlk

[Trapstarz]

Technicaly I just want mecanics that can divide scrubs/duelist from gladiator. It's the only one thing I want for hunter rn.

[EyelessCrow]

Aimed shot on the move
Chimera Shot
Kill shot
Steady Shot

Mmmmmm thats how it should be

Hunters didn't have aimed shot on the move through their class just through a set bonus at the end of the expansion. I admit I liked it a lot but I knew people were going to hate losing it and think it was a class change once it went away.

[Netherblood]

MM - I like current design more than WoD, hated WoD MM mastery. It might sound weird but I'd rather have to stand still to cast than have to micromanage WoD mastery.
BM - I'm indifferent here.
SV - I liked playing current SV for mythic Gul'dan progress to murder eyes and parasites and it was fun. But without old NH 4pc spec isnt as fun to play. and WoD SV was rly fun in highmaul. So overall WoD SV is a huge winner here.

[Bepples]

It wasn't "highly mobile", it was "immune to any sort of movement punishment"

That is pretty much what "highly mobile means".

"Hunters aren't a ranged class, they just attack from afar".

Hunters back then in AotF times were basically ranged melee, who had 100% uptime no matter what with no downside whatsoever - it was flawed design and it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. The only weakness of ranged characters - their inability to deal 100% of their damage on the move removed not by a cooldown, but by a freaking toggle. It's ridiculous.

There were downsides, though. We've pretty much never been beyond middle-of-the-pack in terms of throughput and our raw survivability (e.g. self healing) is lower than most other specs. You made the false claim that we still did caster-level damage while moving: probably as a deflection tactic, but the fact is the class has a clear damage penalty from being fully mobile. The fact that Hunters didn't dominate the whole game should clue you into that. BM is STILL fully mobile and the sky isn't falling, revealing your complaints to be conjecture and total non-issues.

And yes, you could do a 1 button MM rotation, i even had it stored on my hunter alt:
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget] Kill Command
/cast Silencing Shot
/castsequence Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot
/castsequence Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
And i probably got it from this very forum, and i was able to sit at 4-7 spots on meters (we weren't best players, but this is borderline botting when you bind it to wheel scroll and just run around with wasd)

In WotLK, there were plenty of specs that could be played just like that. That's actually a big reason why we got focus in the first place; focus leads to a more dynamic rotation than mana did. Also, castsequence macros are pretty much universally suboptimal, with BC being the exception because the macro did a mostly better job at timing Steady Shot/Auto Shot than a player could. So what you're telling me is that the spec, in a time where it was far simpler (and unrelated to the mobility issue at hand), you could play the spec suboptimally with a macro. And no, you couldn't move around at the time.

- - - Updated - - -

Hunters didn't have aimed shot on the move through their class just through a set bonus at the end of the expansion. I admit I liked it a lot but I knew people were going to hate losing it and think it was a class change once it went away.

Lmao, the short-term memory on some people. People like you, by the way, not the people you're "correcting". Aimed Shot was castable while moving for ALL of WoD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCye6-NwMhM&t=50s

Aimed Shot while moving, during the cast time. No Aspect of the Fox in sight.

[Tyze]

Hunters didn't have aimed shot on the move through their class just through a set bonus at the end of the expansion. I admit I liked it a lot but I knew people were going to hate losing it and think it was a class change once it went away.

That tier set made Aimed Shot instant cast

[EyelessCrow]

That tier set made Aimed Shot instant cast

Lol thanks, yeah I knew there was something hinky with my memory. It was the instant cast I was going to miss, not the casting while moving. Which is sad because my hunter is what I played for most of WoD.

Lmao, the short-term memory on some people. People like you, by the way, not the people you're "correcting". Aimed Shot was castable while moving for ALL of WoD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCye6-NwMhM&t=50s

Aimed Shot while moving, during the cast time. No Aspect of the Fox in sight.

Lol, I know you're trying to insult me but it just made me laugh knowing you want to make me sound stupid but don't actually know the meaning of terms you are using. I was wrong, there is a right way and a wrong way to tell me I'm wrong, and then there is your way.

[Gaaz]

WoD soo much more.

MM Hunter - Chimera Shot, Aimed shot on the move (right? or what is a tier set I forgot) Steady shot, KILL SHOT!
BM Hunter - Focus Fire!!! Kill Shot!!!!
Survival Hunter - RANGED!

I definitely prefer WoD hunter to Legion version as well. None of the specs were ideal, but they were definitely better. I did not like Focus Fire for BM. It could have been designed much better. I wish it was more similar to affliction warlock's artifact ability in legion. MM worked almost perfectly with the set bonus that made AS instant, but was not that good without it. Survival was actually a playable spec. But the Legion's redesign made things much worse. BM is a waiting game, especially at lower levels. Spec also feels oversimplified and unrewarding for better gameplay. MM lost mobility and feels like a caster. Kind of like a cross breed of an ice mage (glacial spike cleave) with an old hunter. SV I won't touch with a long stick.
Funny thing is, affliction warlock is probably closer to WoD BM hunter in overall feel than Legion hunter is. Focus Fire is kind of like Reap Souls and there is a talent for execute mechanics in the talent tree. Drain soul channel is also similar to steady shot spamming.

[Eapoe]

Can anyone actually find out on a mythic Brackenspore a kill time and how many CS's were used during for any Hunter? I'm curious about something and unable to find ignorant on warcraftlogs anywhere.
Tried finding it, but not super familiar with accessing everything or if it's just not showing because of how long ago it was.

[Monkeymoo]

Nirv, i honestly don’t see how if you have been playing a hunter since 2006 you could be so completely clueless as to the myriad of nerfs hunters recieved with the Legion class changes. Like honestly there’s just no way to refute it. I won’t even bother responding to your post anymore because it’s already been pointed out that you are flat out wrong but you just won’t see it. I know in your head this means you “won” and think I’m too scared to get on Discord and debate it but the simple fact is there is absolutely nothing to debate. I wish you all the best in your future speed runs and youtube channel

[Eapoe]

Here's what I don't understand about the debate with Nirv, Fpic, and you...what are you jusging everything off of? Are you just talking endgame (raids and dungeons) or are you talking about everything?
If we are talking everything, then yes, Hunters can be considered faster as far as movement goes with everything available (professions, consumables, etc) to them. If we are talking about raids and dungeons, then I am inclined to agree with Fpic and you. Now, with raids and dungeons, it's a little harder to quantify. As Fpic stated, we had a glyphed Cheetah that would prevent stun; however, on any steady pulsing AoE fight or in a solo'ing instance, it's not as valuable as it's going to get turned off and be useless. I do give the edge to current standing content that WoD was faster with Cheetah.
As far as soloing content, that's also slightly tough to quantify. Sure, you can say we have nerfs that lowered this, but when you consider the things we got it's again not so cut and dry. As Fpic said, we lost things like Spirit Bond, Distract Shot, Mend Pet, unlimited MD to pet; but, we also gained 40% damage reduction on pet for duration of MD, Play Dead (instant threat drop for pet), and legendaries. Just between things like a turtle's shell ability, Play Dead, FD, MD damage reduction, Mend Pet, Posthaste, and Turtle, you can kite and ping pong the boss around. That's without legendary additions. Tack on Roots and Prydaz, and you gain a lot of survivability with those things. Now, I get it if you don't want to include things like legos, but we are comparing "current then vs current now," which means you have to consider everything available at the time.
For the last point, I'm not really sure how to quantify downtime vs pacing/actions per minute without access to logs showing total cast times. Explaining as best I can, downtime does not necessarily mean slower paced or less done overall. Just a for instance, let's say CS was cast 50 times over a 5 minute fight and you have it equaling the GCD (1.0 seconds). Even with a 100% uptime during the fight, that's 50 casts at 1 second a piece for 50 seconds of doing nothing other than casting an ability. Looking at the flip side, as Fpic pointed out, with optimal gear a current BM Hunter has roughly 10% downtime. Over 5 minutes, 60 seconds a minute, equaling 300 seconds overall, a 10% downtime is 30 seconds of doing nothing. You actually have more actions per minute with current Legion BM than you did in WoD, even though you have more uptime as any casted ability equates "doing something." Obviously, the amount of CS's cast can be more or less and those numbers are made up as an example, but something that should be considered when comparing the 2.
Slight alternative comparison, Legion BM vs Legion MM. On a 100% standstill fight lasting 2 minutes, a MM Hunter with 100% uptime is foreseeable to have less actions per minute than BM simply because even with 100% uptime, there are 1.7-2.5 seconds used to cast AiS and Windburst, even though BM has downtime.
Downtime is quantified as "not doing anything," (obviously) and a casted ability counts as doing something; however, a Mage that casts over 10 seconds a 1.5 second frostbolt means they get 7 casts vs a BM Hunter that also gets 7 casts, even though they have downtime. A MM Hunter with 2 second AiS's would only get 5 casts off, while BM still maintains 7. Even with downtime, BM still has more actions per minute and a slightly faster playstyle.

[Growel]

I like both, but WoD was better.

[DeicideUH]

I like Survival in Legion (because it's different, and because I never cared for Survival before). And I loved MM in WoD, because it was the only time the spec felt like a real marksman.

IMO, they need to improve Survival a bit, and bring more of the old MM, but now with some old (ranged) Survival skills as talents, so people can emulate that playstyle if they so choose.

[Deleted]

If they would bring back WoD Highmaul Survival Hunter (Or HFC MM with 4-set), i would reroll back to hunter without ever looking back!
Best iterations of the 2 specs in my opinion.

[Ineluki]

I mainly played Survival in MoP and Wod so I obviously prefer those version over Legion since it doesnt have the spec I played.

[Sylvaeres]

Overall I don't like any changes. BM is only about pets and removes all the shooting, MM is only about shooting and removes pets, survival is horrible in every way in my opinion. What do you think?

WoD MM with 4p HFC and class trinket was one of my top 3 favorite specs of all time honestly. It's right up there with 4p HFC+class trinket frost mage, and CB/Nem Havoc DH

[Deleted]

I prefered Hunter at the end of Vanilla.

It all went down hill with the change from mana to focus, from aimed shot and multi shot hitting like trucks to steady shot and steady dmg.

I liked the burst Hunter had back then, tracking your autoshots to put aimed shot in between autoshots, even the feign death and drink to regen mana in fights. The overall dmg numbers could have been better in comparison to fire mages later but yeah I liked it.

I remember I was 10th in damage in t2 gear and the quest bow on a top 10 world Loatheb kill ahead of the hunters in t3 and with xbows.

[Banard]

Survival in Legion is awesome!

and was not needed. instead of re-working surv into melee the current melee surv spec playstyle should of been a demon hunter tree.

[Deleted]

MoP Surv. Best spec ever

[Deleted]

and was not needed. instead of re-working surv into melee the current melee surv spec playstyle should of been a demon hunter tree.

no, demonhunter is fine with 2 specs

the survival hunter theme simply should be removed and spread over the other 2 specs, hunter does not need 3 dmg specs.