Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[Reloe]

oh another issue was probably that there was too much raid-testing this time. Almost all heroic bosses got tested twice, 10/11Mythic, 10/11 normal and 10/11lfr all got tested. We saw every phase on every encounter, there was nothing unknown about any of the fights, only that they removed soulbomb in argus p4 which made it even easier.

I actually liked it when ptr tests used to be overtuned so you wouldn't get to see everything, it kept some secrets, but antorus testing was a joke already.

[azurrei]

Good - glad to here it is easy, that just means Heroic Argus kills will be cheap to buy with gold for the mount quest / Amanthul's Vision attempts After all, the mount and the trinket for leveling in the expansion is all that really matters at this point in Legion. Artifacts are getting tossed (so who cares about relics/weapon ilvl in the end) and all other gear will be replaced by ~115 or so.

If you want a challenge, there is Mythic mode to beat. Honestly they need to get rid of LFR and merge Normal/Heroic into a single difficulty with a queue option (shared lockout.) Mythic should be for the raiders who want a tough challenge and that is that.

[ramayana1423]

They massively screwed up the difficulty of heroic Argus. It doesn't need to be soul crushing, but its over the top easy right now.

So you shouldn't have any problems clearing Mythic at a respectable rate then, right?

This is flawed logic, the raiding playerbase is basically 3 groups of people. There is a group who only do LFR, there is a group who do normal then heroic, then there is mythic raiders, who do heroic only to get ready for mythic. Heroic is end game for the majority because the logistic of mythic are just different than heroic, and making the final boss on heroic a complete joke compared to some of the bosses before it is a big screw up by Blizzard.

[Jastall]

So you shouldn't have any problems clearing Mythic at a respectable rate then, right?

Again, that's not the issue. Yes, Heroic is supposed to be easier that Mythic, but it doesn't mean the final boss of the xpack, on Heroic, has to be so easy, especially when its lack of difficulty comes from forgiving mechanics.

More importantly, Argus's difficulty relative to the rest of the raid doesn't make sense. The final boss should be at least as hard as any other, and preferably the hardest. But Coven and Aggramar are far less forgiving fights with deadly mechanics; the former in particular have some really tricky overlaps that your raid needs to learn and deal with. Argus... doesn't. You spend most of the fight standing there DPSing because almost nothing can actually harm you. There's close to nothing new from Normal to Heroic as well, whereas most other bosses gain something of some significance. Deaths in phases 1 to 3, if they happen, are close to irrelevant because everyone gets rezzed with all cooldowns up in ph4 anyway, which would have been really cool if it felt necessary but it doesn't. And that's week 1, once we have some Antorus gear the boss will be a complete joke, whereas messing up mechanics on Coven, Aggramar or Kin'garoth will still kill you.

The fight should have featured far more mechanics on Heroic, along with deadlier overlaps. Ph2 for instance should have kept Tortured Rage, and the scythes should have been deadlier, they are literally a less dangerous version of a mechanic Portal Keeper has. As it is, that phase is ridiculously toothless to anyone who has read the dungeon journal.

[borisshayo]

So the raid isn't an over tuned pile of shit like ToS was at launch. I don't see the problem. Wiping 400+ times on a boss isn't fun.

Yeah, all those guilds wiping 400+ times on heroic Kil'jaeden. Clown.

[Gorsameth]

They massively screwed up the difficulty of heroic Argus. It doesn't need to be soul crushing, but its over the top easy right now.



This is flawed logic, the raiding playerbase is basically 3 groups of people. There is a group who only do LFR, there is a group who do normal then heroic, then there is mythic raiders, who do heroic only to get ready for mythic. Heroic is end game for the majority because the logistic of mythic are just different than heroic, and making the final boss on heroic a complete joke compared to some of the bosses before it is a big screw up by Blizzard.

Is there any Heroic progress raider (aka someone who did not kill KJ HC until 2+ months into the tier and never got far in Mythic (say not past Mistress) who is complaining that HC Argus is to easy?

because the people complaining that HC is to easy now are not the intended audience. I'd wager 100% of them are 6+ Mythic ToS raiders.

[Martymark]

Mythic is the end of expansion boss. BTW, I bet LFR Argus is gonna be a bit easy too.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Is there any Heroic progress raider (aka someone who did not kill KJ HC until 2+ months into the tier and never got far in Mythic (say not past Mistress) who is complaining that HC Argus is to easy?

because the people complaining that HC is to easy now are not the intended audience. I'd wager 100% of them are 6+ Mythic ToS raiders.

Exactly this.

[Twilight Cultist]

Is there any Heroic progress raider (aka someone who did not kill KJ HC until 2+ months into the tier and never got far in Mythic (say not past Mistress) who is complaining that HC Argus is to easy?

because the people complaining that HC is to easy now are not the intended audience. I'd wager 100% of them are 6+ Mythic ToS raiders.

The issue that people are having is that Argus is even easier than some of the bosses before him like Aggramar and Coven on Heroic. Even if Heroic Argus isn't tuned for Mythic raiders, it doesn't mean the last boss of a raid should be easier than the bosses before him on the same difficulty.

[Deleted]

Heroic is just glorified normal anyways, we should be happy the fights are nothing like what ToS had to offer.

Mythic should be more enjoyable.

[Twilight Cultist]

Heroic is just glorified normal anyways, we should be happy the fights are nothing like what ToS had to offer.

Mythic should be more enjoyable.

A lot of people (even myself) said the same thing about Deathwing. I hope it is true, but we have had a shitty end expansion boss on the highest difficulty before.

[david0925]

Is there any Heroic progress raider (aka someone who did not kill KJ HC until 2+ months into the tier and never got far in Mythic (say not past Mistress) who is complaining that HC Argus is to easy?

because the people complaining that HC is to easy now are not the intended audience. I'd wager 100% of them are 6+ Mythic ToS raiders.

I don't think most people are complaining HC is too easy. Most Mythic raiders don't care about difficulty of Heroic content. However Argus is extremely easy compared to Heroic KJ, Gul'dan, or Helya and probably on par, if not easier, than Xavius.

You can argue that "oh it is not easy for heroic raiders" and perhaps you are right (I don't actually think you are for this boss), but the audience that will find Argus to be even remotely challenging will be stuck on Imonar, Kin'Garoth, Coven, or Aggramar. Even if we look at Antorus as a whole I wouldn't even rate Argus as the 3, perhaps not even top half, hardest bosses because both mechanics and numbers are undertuned AS JUST A HEROIC BOSS.

[Deleted]

You and the OP aren't the "targeted" audience. You are both Mythic raiders with 940/950+ in the whole raid.

So not sure what you 2 are moaning about. This boss will be hard enough for the people its actually targeting. The ones that are finishing off Normal now slowly getting into Heroic.

The problem will be coven and aggramar, those two are both harder than Argus. Argus isn't going to be a problem.

My friends guild rarely raids, they had 935 ilvl and they 3 shot Argus without doing much research for it.

They struggled far more on coven and aggramar.

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I don't think most people are complaining HC is too easy. Most Mythic raiders don't care about difficulty of Heroic content. However Argus is extremely easy compared to Heroic KJ, Gul'dan, or Helya and probably on par, if not easier, than Xavius.

You can argue that "oh it is not easy for heroic raiders" and perhaps you are right (I don't actually think you are for this boss), but the audience that will find Argus to be even remotely challenging will be stuck on Imonar, Kin'Garoth, Coven, or Aggramar. Even if we look at Antorus as a whole I wouldn't even rate Argus as the 3, perhaps not even top half, hardest bosses because both mechanics and numbers are undertuned AS JUST A HEROIC BOSS.

Imonar just run with extra healers if your group can't dodge.

Kingaroth, just kill all adds at same time, tanks do balls, and look at the non hammer hand for ruiner, that fight is as easy as Argus.

[david0925]

The problem will be coven and aggramar, those two are both harder than Argus. Argus isn't going to be a problem.

My friends guild rarely raids, they had 935 ilvl and they 3 shot Argus without doing much research for it.

They struggled far more on coven and aggramar.

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Imonar just run with extra healers if your group can't dodge.

Kingaroth, just kill all adds at same time, tanks do balls, and look at the non hammer hand for ruiner, that fight is as easy as Argus.

I don't think either are hard but I think Argus is even easier than either of them, which is saying a lot. And that has been the stance of many people: Argus is easy not just compared to all other end bosses in legion except for maybe arguably Xavius, it is easier than half the bosses in Antorus.

Then some people just took it super defensively and kept saying "OH YOU JUST OVER GEAR etc" which, while we do, is not the point.

[Tradu]

the main difference is that in past people werent overgearing past content to this point

which is kinda funny because for past 10 years people were whinin how they want to go straight from mythic to next tier mythic instead clear hc first - well now they got it and they bitch - which is hillarius - this is how karma works.

Except we don't get to go straight to mythic, because there's a week where the easier difficulties are available but mythic is not.

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So the raid isn't an over tuned pile of shit like ToS was at launch. I don't see the problem. Wiping 400+ times on a boss isn't fun.

If anybody wiped that many times on heroic KJ, that's pretty sad.

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So you shouldn't have any problems clearing Mythic at a respectable rate then, right?

He probably won't, no. Not that that has anything at all to do with this topic.

[Queen of Hamsters]

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Not that that has anything at all to do with this topic.

... Says you?

I responded to this topic, and consider it likely that if he and his guild have an easy-mode time with HC, they'll be progressing Mythic now and get it done before it's trivial content.

Either way, there will be guilds progressing and struggling with HC just fine, whom will never set foot into Mythic.

[Tradu]

... Says you?

I responded to this topic, and consider it likely that if he and his guild have an easy-mode time with HC, they'll be progressing Mythic now and get it done before it's trivial content.

Either way, there will be guilds progressing and struggling with HC just fine, whom will never set foot into Mythic.

His mythic progress starting next week has nothing to do with whether or not Argus heroic is too easy(which he probably is, compared to 2 bosses before him). And of course there'll be guilds struggling, that's the case regardless of tuning because there'll always be even worse players who are able to get into heroic because of lower tuning, and then struggle with it.

[Raone]

The thing about Heroic Argus is he is easier with more dps similar to Archimonde in HFC (except Archimonde had way more hp), every phase escalates if you stay in it too long so if you have the damage Argus isn't difficult at all. Archimonde became a joke after you beat certain dps thresholds. I just feels like Argus threasholds are a lot easier to reach then Archmonde's was.

KJ was only more difficult because it had a ton of pass/fail mechanics while Argus has 0

[Tradu]

You haven't done mythic yet. This is a dumb conversation to have.

Mythic has nothing to do with the tuning of heroic Argus.

[david0925]

You haven't done mythic yet. This is a dumb conversation to have.

weird, this is the topic i read

"Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss"

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I don't know why people are so defensive about this topic. Let me word it differently then

What do you think the difficulty of heroic argus is compared to the first iterations of heroic KJ, Gul'dan, Helya, and Xavius?