GOP On Verge of Dealing Deathblow to ACA By Repealing Mandate in Tax Bill

[Skroe]

I don't think the US can be considered a first world nation. Not anymore.

Being a first world nation or not does not come down to healthcare. That's absurd. It also ignores the 92% of Americans with Healthcare, 60% of whom get it through an employer. Is our status decided by the 8%? Hogwash. Utter hogwash.

Health care is important. It is not the end all-be-all. It is one item of many on this country's agenda. It must be put back in it's box. We have other priorities too, just as critical, if not more so. Spending unlimited dollars on healthcare just to get the uninsured rate to zero is not a real solution.

[Toppy]

Being a first world nation or not does not come down to healthcare. That's absurd. It also ignores the 92% of Americans with Healthcare, 60% of whom get it through an employer. Is our status decided by the 8%? Hogwash. Utter hogwash.

Health care is important. It is not the end all-be-all. It is one item of many on this country's agenda. It must be put back in it's box. We have other priorities too, just as critical, if not more so. Spending unlimited dollars on healthcare just to get the uninsured rate to zero is not a real solution.

Many may have insurance but even with it medical costs can be overwhelmingly extreme.

You know this, why are you acting as if you dont know this? Even with insurance medical treatment can and does bankrupt far to many people.

[Toppy]

Democrats are ready to put it back in the box. Republicans keep taking it out.

I agree, it's not a solution and will one day require addressing. However the only direction to go is towards more "socialist" policies. Obamacare is literally *one single step* away from the complete shithole healthcare used to be.

That I do agree, what we had wasnt amazing, but it was better than what we had before. Largely because the Republican party was super petty when it was being passed and made sure to shove things in there to make sure it would fail (despite this its still doing well). The whole damn party is comprised of petty people looking out for themselves. The name of the game when Obama took over was being bipartisan and the conservatives took advantage of that by sabotaging anything they could touch: dems couldnt do anything to stop them, else the right would just cry that dems were being hypocrites and not really being bipartisan.

We need a one payer system, but that wont happen because all the bribes floating around washington.

[Lenonis]

How is it un-American to force someone to buy health insurance but not un-American to force hospitals to treat the uninsured and not un-American to force people who do have insurance to pick up the costs of the uninsured?

No one has ever explained that aspect to me.

Yeah yeah, quoting yourself is so blah blah blah...

But really the discussion is still going on and this question has gone unanswered. Either the freedom and liberty people are banned, have me on ignore, or don't have an answer so this question is going conveniently unanswered.

I'd really like to hear an answer for this. Because in my mind you cannot simultaneously advocate that people have optional health insurance while supporting hospitals mandate to treat. That's not consistent in a freedom and liberty worldview.

[beanman12345]

The pubs will blame it on the dems on the premiums rising, who will buy it hook line we sinker, and continue to screw themselves over voting for the pubs and against their own self interest. Smh

[Zan15]

Being a first world nation or not does not come down to healthcare. That's absurd. It also ignores the 92% of Americans with Healthcare, 60% of whom get it through an employer. Is our status decided by the 8%? Hogwash. Utter hogwash.

Health care is important. It is not the end all-be-all. It is one item of many on this country's agenda. It must be put back in it's box. We have other priorities too, just as critical, if not more so. Spending unlimited dollars on healthcare just to get the uninsured rate to zero is not a real solution.

lol. the fact that the cost of your healthcare through your employer is also getting more and more expensive (cost sharing) thus its becoming more and more useless to many Americans. As this gets more expensive and companies have to spend more money on it, it also impacts wage growth.


also when you are compared to first world nations that somehow managed to do it and still have higher standards of living then we do....ya at some point we might be at the bottom of that list.

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How is it un-American to force someone to buy health insurance but not un-American to force hospitals to treat the uninsured and not un-American to force people who do have insurance to pick up the costs of the uninsured?

No one has ever explained that aspect to me.

Don't know because i have been asking the same question for half dozen years...on top of the question if its un-american to force someone to get health insurance, then why the hell has medicare made it 50 years......you know that health insurance product you are forced to pay for 40-50 years before you can actually use it.

people complaining about 4000- 8000-16000 deductibles before they can use their health insurance.....how about 50 years and 100k you have to pay before you can use Medicare?? with interest its about 500k.

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The mandate is part of the reason the ACA was dead the moment it passed. The mandate is tyrannical and accomplishes nothing.

so what is next the mandated Medicare payments you make every week for, oh an INSURANCE PRODUCT.

then what about that mandated Social Security payment you make every week.......when you can just buy that 401k you really want....

you are mandated to pay for a lot of things you can get on the private market.

sheep just hate aca because its OBAMA nothing more then they were told to hate it

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and those who cant afford care can go on Medicaid or state ran programs like badgercare in Wisconsin, there is literally no reason what so ever to tell a healthy person who can afford care they must purchase something they probably wont use. Again, hate to tell you but the concept of forcing someone into commerce in order to regulate them is completely un-American, an abomination, deeply unpopular and hopefully will get struck from law sometime shortly.

cough...medicare...cough...social security......cough education even though you send your kids to private school.....etc etc etc..

its very american.

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Oh, and you telling someone how to be moral isn't bullshit? Fuck off with that shit.

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You act as if the people paying into the ACA actually cover those in the ACA, which it isn't. This is why Obama made those illegal insurance company bailout payments that congress never approved of. The ACA is a scam, sold on a bunch of lies to dupe the useful idiots into buying into something they never would have agreed to.

All the ACA did was to force millions off their current insurance, dump around 10M or so onto medicare and force people into the government exchanges to purchase crap insurance with high deductible payments. On top of that, a huge portion of those on the exchanges are high risk, meaning the math would never work out hence the illegal payments to the insurance companies.

ACA shit needs to fail.

pst, they were forced into Medicaid...not Medicare.

...and not exactly forced, they qualified for it. they could have turned it down and selected a ACA plan, or OPTED out and brought a plan on the open market all on their own.


illegal payments is a joke, basically a procedural problem for funding which republicans refused to fix even though they said they wanted to....because....well OBAMA, thats all.

[Mormolyce]

So do the Republicans really think that when premiums start spiking they can still point the finger at Obama and people will buy it?

Being a first world nation or not does not come down to healthcare.

I mean no, but I think you are literally the only one that doesn't have some form of universal healthcare.

[Zan15]

So do the Republicans really think that when premiums start spiking they can still point the finger at Obama and people will buy it?



I mean no, but I think you are literally the only one that doesn't have some form of universal healthcare.

yup and 32% of the country will no matter what.
Alabama will prove soon that they don't care what happens as long as democrats are not in power

[hakujinbakasama]

If they get rid of the mandate, people will be fleeing the insurance marketplace in droves, premiums will skyrocket, and the whole system will probably implode.

Unfortunately, people will die. But, that's the game Republicans want to play, and the only they will lose it is if their constituents are suffering.

Good, and then we can put an end to this stupid health care industry retardation.

Maybe just maybe we can get a system that is more like "Hey doc I need an exam, how much?" Instead of "Well now that your here we will have a finance official come in and explain to you all the ways this is bat shit crazy and about to fuck you 6 ways from Sunday due to subsidies."

[Edge-]

Maybe just maybe we can get a system that is more like "Hey doc I need an exam, how much?" Instead of "Well now that your here we will have a finance official come in and explain to you all the ways this is bat shit crazy and about to fuck you 6 ways from Sunday due to subsidies."

Except that would be a completely terrible system for anyone who happens to be sick or gets in an accident. There's a reason no other developed nation takes such an approach.

The problem you quote is resolved with the system just about every other developed nation has "discovered" when it comes to health care - universal coverage.

[hakujinbakasama]

Except that would be a completely terrible system for anyone who happens to be sick or gets in an accident. There's a reason no other developed nation takes such an approach.

The problem you quote is resolved with the system just about every other developed nation has "discovered" when it comes to health care - universal coverage.

Which seemingly is often absent several key facts.

1. They are not independent.
2. They are not efficient.
3. They are inelastic.
4. People have a tendency to die waiting.

[Mayhem]

Which seemingly is often absent several key facts.

1. They are not independent.
2. They are not efficient.
3. They are inelastic.
4. People have a tendency to die waiting.

What does the first point mean?

They cost a hell of a lot less per capita, so i don't know what you mean by efficient but i think that covers it.

What does inelastic mean in the context of healthcare?

No they don't, stop being stupid.

[hakujinbakasama]

What does the first point mean?

They cost a hell of a lot less per capita, so i don't know what you mean by efficient but i think that covers it.

What does inelastic mean in the context of healthcare?

No they don't, stop being stupid.

It means more often than not they are subsidized by US companies and aids.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/stud...da-2015-report

They can not respond to demands. That's self explanatory.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/dying-on-a-wait-list/
https://wyliberty.org/blog/heath-car...wait-times-1-1
Estimate numbers are in the tens of thousands for women alone.

That's just Canada..


Next?

[Mayhem]

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/stud...da-2015-report

Ok and do you have comparisons to the US system? From diagnose to treatment.

They can not respond to demands. That's self explanatory.

And also for this, please a comparison how much better the US system can respond to demands.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/dying-on-a-wait-list/

Is this supposed to help your case? Because right now it's her word against that of a bunch of doctors.

https://wyliberty.org/blog/heath-car...wait-times-1-1

Yeah, what that article conveniently leaves out is that treatment in the US was too expensive.
http://www.seventeen.com/life/real-g...sket-yearbook/
"Her mother tried to find another hospital, but found out that the waiting list problem existed across Canada, and that treatment in the United States was too expensive. "

Estimate numbers are in the tens of thousands for women alone.

And you have a link to those estimate numbers, right?

[Adam Jensen]

So do the Republicans really think that when premiums start spiking they can still point the finger at Obama and people will buy it?

That strategy's been working so far.

[Trifle]

Which seemingly is often absent several key facts.

1. They are not independent.
2. They are not efficient.
3. They are inelastic.
4. People have a tendency to die waiting.

None of this is a problem inherent to universal healthcare, and I'd find it hard to argue that most of these points apply to American healthcare less than other countries'. There is no way in hell you can claim American healthcare is efficient.

[Toppy]

That strategy's been working so far.

Its amazing how few people realize that this is how the republican party works.

The conservative party always blames the dems for things they themselves did.

[Tinykong]

Good, and then we can put an end to this stupid health care industry retardation.

Maybe just maybe we can get a system that is more like "Hey doc I need an exam, how much?" Instead of "Well now that your here we will have a finance official come in and explain to you all the ways this is bat shit crazy and about to fuck you 6 ways from Sunday due to subsidies."

Or we could just turn to a system where you just walk in and get your exam.

You know, like the rest of the modern world.

[Edge-]

Which seemingly is often absent several key facts.

1. They are not independent.
2. They are not efficient.
3. They are inelastic.
4. People have a tendency to die waiting.

1. Independent? Clarify please. These aren't state-run hospitals inmost cases, simply state-paid.
2. This varies from country to country, but most are far more efficient than the US last I checked.
3. Gonna need more than a vague "inelastic", which is meaningless on its own.
4. Citation needed. I've got plenty of friends and families in those countries and while they absolutely have gripes and complaints about a variety of shit, none has ever had any issues getting immediate care when they were in need of it. One of my cousins in Italy went through years of intensive cancer treatments without issue, her death was because she was battling a type of cancer that very, very, very few people survive. The fact that she lasted years to begin with is incredible, and a testament to the quality of care she received and her strength.

[Masark]

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/stud...da-2015-report

Cute, you're citing the fraiser institute as if they have any credibility.