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  1. #241
    Herald of the Titans Maruka's Avatar
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    From a casual perspective i thought normal was tuned pretty well. My pug group did prolly 10 pulls to get it and our kil lwas close. I dunno it was a fun fight and heroic will be a pain to pug i think.

  2. #242
    Dreadlord Mulled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyorkbourne View Post
    Gosh. I wonder why. Maybe it's because everyone bitched about KJ being too hard and Blizzard were forced to essentially apologise and promise to never make a boss that hard again. Of course it was easy. If it were too hard, the people who play 2 hours a month couldn't kill it.
    you are wrong blizzard was talking about the initial release of mythic KJ's tuning being way too hard and they wont be repeating it blocking world 1st guilds from being able to progress and then having to go in with a nerf bat 4-5 times.

    I think to combat that they jsut made argus a bit less tightly tuned and the mechanics not as bad which trickled down to heroic and normal being so easy.

    sorry to get your hopes up

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulled View Post
    you are wrong blizzard was talking about the initial release of mythic KJ's tuning being way too hard and they wont be repeating it blocking world 1st guilds from being able to progress and then having to go in with a nerf bat 4-5 times.

    I think to combat that they jsut made argus a bit less tightly tuned and the mechanics not as bad which trickled down to heroic and normal being so easy.

    sorry to get your hopes up
    Was actually hoping it would be at least as difficult as KJ mythic, just not a buddy untested piece of shit. So, not sure why you think im hoping for super easy fights.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixy View Post
    You forgot Helya. Heroic Helya was harder for guilds then either Kil'jaeden or Gul'dan even after the nerfs. I knew a guild that was 5/7M EN and barely killed Heroic Helya before Nighthold.
    I killed heroic Helya the 1st day my guild tried it, Gul'dan took 47 wipes, Kj was in the 30s. Didn't mention her because she was pretty easy, for my guild anyways. Although i think it was the 1st day for me but the 2nd day for a lot of them, can't remember.

  5. #245
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLSAMG View Post
    Mate, it's only Heroic...
    Um the equivalent for Garrosh or Lich King was wayyyyyyyyyy more difficult.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
    Um the equivalent for Garrosh or Lich King was wayyyyyyyyyy more difficult.
    Heroic now equals the old normals/flexi..

  7. #247
    Bloodsail Admiral Moggie's Avatar
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    Eh... people trying to justify the difficulties is rather silly. All that was changed end of MoP. LFR is LFR, Normal is Normal, Heroics are Heroic, Mythic are Mythic.. To be honest, this tiers Heroic mode is a tad bit easy BUT, remember I think even the devs said they tuned ToS much harder than they ever intended or it was the hardest raid made... something like that. Either way, EN wasn't difficult, NH stepped up difficulties a bit. ToS was a whole new ballgame for raiding. And then we arrive in Antorus with relics that have more than one trait and effects, better gear/stats/set bonuses, balance, and a better catch up system for gearing new folks/alts than before. It adds up to making things much easier. It also helps Antorus isn't the raid on steroid like ToS was. =P

    I think the death mechanic skews viewpoints about the difficulty, creating one of the most forgiving fight I've seen. Take that one little deal out of the equation, and he probably wouldn't have fallen over so easily for a lot of folks.

  8. #248
    Not every end boss needs to be omgwtf difficult even on heroic. I'd rather Argus be as he is now than an awful overtuned trash heap like KJ or pointlessly drawn out like Gul'dan for a mediocre fight.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    I'm quite confident to say I will have wiped more often in heroic HFC the first week than I did in the full duration of heroic Antorus.

    And we couldn't kill Archimonde on the first week... and we did a lot of extra time to try to, while this week clear seems to take about 5 hours.

    There is a limit, right now heroic feels like normal, and people don't even have their tier yet. Hopefully mythic will be better tuned.
    Sadly, my guild lacks the roster for Mythic. Plus the leadership required. Plus we raid fewer than 6 hours a week. It'll never happen. Heroic is where we end. Guess I could try pugging on the side / when we stop for the tier....

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    He's supposed to be fought with 920-930 ilvl
    Of course if you're rolling around with 20-30 ilvl above you're going to shred him
    Isn't it Blizzards responsibility to tune it properly then? Anyone who's run ToS Heroic as well as any M+ will have higher item level than that thanks to titanforging, I had 945 (which is the same as it drops).

    What's even the point of the raid when the highest difficulty you can run is too easy, and there's at least 7 months left until the next expansion? Mythic is not a possibility thanks to its 20 man requirement.

  11. #251
    Banned SLSAMG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennis View Post
    Um the equivalent for Garrosh or Lich King was wayyyyyyyyyy more difficult.
    What are you going on about for Lich King? There was no Mythics in WotLK so naturally heroics/HM had to be difficult.... Gear was also less accessible so of course tuning was "tougher". Mechanics wise LK was a joke...
    Last edited by SLSAMG; 2017-12-03 at 08:27 AM.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLSAMG View Post
    What are you going on about for Lich King? There was no Mythics in WotLK so naturally heroics/HM had to be difficult....
    *Sigh*



    Prior to SoO, Heroic = Mythic, Normal = Heroic. Technically Mythic has existed since Ulduar when they implemented "hard mode" on bosses.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    *Sigh*



    Prior to SoO, Heroic = Mythic, Normal = Heroic. Technically Mythic has existed since Ulduar when they implemented "hard mode" on bosses.
    Mythic tuning existed in vanilla and burning crusade. Whatever they choose to call it. The end bosses of Naxxramas and Sunwell Plateau were tuned like mythic bosses are today.

  14. #254
    Banned SLSAMG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    *Sigh*



    Prior to SoO, Heroic = Mythic, Normal = Heroic. Technically Mythic has existed since Ulduar when they implemented "hard mode" on bosses.



    Really? Semantics? Please don't start a pissing contest when there wasn't one to begin with.. You can argue for the sake of arguing all you want but it's still not going to change the fact.

    Comparing nearly a decades old content that had completely different gearing/raiding systems is a sure way to make you look stupid. HM's and mythic are completely different as well because of the limited attempts associated with HM's - but I guess that part must've skipped your mind, eh?

    Keep struggling to find relevance.
    Last edited by SLSAMG; 2017-12-03 at 08:53 AM. Reason: typo

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by SLSAMG View Post
    What are you going on about for Lich King? There was no Mythics in WotLK so naturally heroics/HM had to be difficult.... Gear was also less accessible so of course tuning was "tougher". Mechanics wise LK was a joke...
    Raids: LFR (WotLK did not exist), Normal (WotLK did not exist), HC (WotLK Normal raid, 10 or 25) Mythic 20 (WotLK HC raid, 10 or 25)
    The flex mode appeared on SoO pandaria.

  16. #256
    Banned SLSAMG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    Raids: LFR (WotLK did not exist), Normal (WotLK did not exist), HC (WotLK Normal raid, 10 or 25) Mythic 20 (WotLK HC raid, 10 or 25)
    The flex mode appeared on SoO pandaria.
    Why are you assuming that I didn't already know this?

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    I had 945 (which is the same as it drops).
    Heroic Argus the Unmaker loot is 955 base.

    ilvl is irrelevant to compare that way this expansion anyways. You're not even close to having over 940 in all slots at a 945 average when you factor in 2 ilvl 1000 legos and a 970+ weapon.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    He's supposed to be fought with 920-930 ilvl
    Of course if you're rolling around with 20-30 ilvl above you're going to shred him
    I didn't see a single person with ilvl 920 apply for heroic Antorus, and I've seen hundreds of applicants.

    It's also hard to imagine anybody who actually played during previous patch has ilvl 920.

    Who is Blizzard tuning heroic for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    When an orc eats an orc, two orcs rip out of the orcs stomach, they eat each other and a brand new orc walks through the door, and then his chest explodes and 20 full grown orcs crawl out of his body. They then eat each other and the bodies until there are 3 orcs left. The mystery of the orc reproduction cycle.

  19. #259
    Bloodsail Admiral Firatha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    I didn't see a single person with ilvl 920 apply for heroic Antorus, and I've seen hundreds of applicants.

    It's also hard to imagine anybody who actually played during previous patch has ilvl 920.

    Who is Blizzard tuning heroic for?
    My raid was talking about this aswell we had 2 or 3 people that tested most of the bosses an they were saying that it was so much harder during the testing and he went back and looked and it seems the they were scaled around that range 920-930 for alot of the bosses and you brought up the point well what kind of person raids and has that low of an item level it just dose not make sense for them to tune it around that I know plenty of people who just raid heroic and went into the raid with all of their raiders at the 930-935 area.

    On another note I really hope the mythic changes to Argus make him harder then the 2 bosses before him I hate raids where the hardest bosses are the ones before the end boss I think they might of dropped the ball on the heroic curve and its too late to fix that.
    Last edited by Firatha; 2017-12-03 at 09:12 AM.
    My rogue RIP 2004-2019
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    No they don’t learn and evidence suggests that. Behavior also doesn’t change and if there is any hope of learning behavior has to change.

    Not meaningless declarations easy to say after he regrets offering up evidence he’s a racist.

  20. #260
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SLSAMG View Post
    Really? Semantics? Please don't start a pissing contest when there wasn't one to begin with.. You can argue for the sake of arguing all you want but it's still not going to change the fact.

    Comparing nearly a decades old content that had completely different gearing/raiding systems is a sure way to make you look stupid. HM's and mythic are completely different as well because of the limited attempts associated with HM's - but I guess that part must've skipped your mind, eh?

    Keep struggling to find relevance.
    It's not semantics when you claim mythic didn't exist in wrath when it clearly did. Ulduar didn't have a limitation on number of attempts, the only limitation was Algalon with the one hour per week. But I suppose that must have slipped your mind eh?

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