So if Alliance get the Lightforged...

[Friendlyimmolation]

"She is also the most powerful human sorceress on Azeroth." -wowwiki

- - - Updated - - -

That makes her pretty damn powerful

So powerful that her strongest arcane blast merely made Thalen spin around in anger.

Also don’t use Wowwkiki, there is some hysterically biased/incorrect stuff on there. Wowpedia is the way to go because they moderate their pages.

[Friendlyimmolation]

So? She summoned a whole army of water elementals in a tidal wave to drown a whole city, only the combined strength of Thrall and Kalecgos stopped her, not to mention she made easy work of most of the Sunreavers back in MoP

She had the focusing iris, that wasn’t her power. I hope that wasn’t a dishonest attempt to inflate her power and you simply forgot that she could only do that with the iris, not with her power.

Most of the sunreavers were civilians and outnumbered , very powerful mage. Aethas is a failure in everything he does though, I’m surprised he didn’t kill himself trying to iceblock.

[Treeskee]

Azshara and Me'dan are the most powerful magic users in the history of Azeroth and both are far from human. The Guardian of tirisfal hardly counts though, since having a bunch of other people give you your magic does not prove your affinity for it.

[Yousef]

Azshara and Me'dan are the most powerful magic users in the history of Azeroth and both are far from human. The Guardian of tirisfal hardly counts though, since having a bunch of other people give you your magic does not prove your affinity for it.

No no no no, do you not know what happens when you mention that name?

[Deleted]

And an inability to regulate themselves, forcing them to police the humans when the humans accidentally started attracting demons. Humans may have a strong affinity for magic, but their shorter life spans equals the races out.

I mean, they didn't the majority of the burning Legion and nearly Sargeras. So they did far better than the Highborn.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I mean, they didn't the majority of the burning Legion and nearly Sargeras. So they did far better than the Highborn.

Every magical race has done better at hiding themselves from demons then the ancient highborne, except for Draenei.

[Deleted]

Every magical race has done better at hiding themselves from demons then the ancient highborne, except for Draenei.

Not to forget that the humans reacted pretty reasonable. Instead of joining the Legion, they ran to the High Elves immediatly and asked for help. Thats smarter than what Azshara did.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Not to forget that the humans reacted pretty reasonable. Instead of joining the Legion, they ran to the High Elves immediatly and asked for help. Thats smarter than what Azshara did.

“I’m going to marry Sargeras”

[NotFunny008]

Aegwynn, Khadgar, Medivh, Gul'Dan(not a mage but still magic wielding), Kel'thuzad, Antonidas, Jaina. All humans except gul'dan who isn't even an elf. I don't know of many Elves that match their power, although obv kael is up there and the eredar duo but they aren't elves either. There's very few powerful elves in lore(bold statement I'm sure someone will prove me wrong)

Queen Azshara.

[derpkitteh]

Queen Azshara.

aegwynn at her peak would thrash pre-sundering azshara. aegwynn wasn't just powerful due to being a guardian, she was insanely powerful without her guardian power as well, since she was able to stand with medivh, who actually had guardian power while fighting her. 10k years later and being pumped with void power for that whole time though, azshara is most definitely stronger now.

that said, kael'thas, elisande, thalyssra, rommath, all incredibly powerful mages. elisande is stronger than any human mage currently living, and kael'thas would probably shit on everyone but khadgar. thalyssra and rommath as well.

there's the player mage, who is confirmed demi god levels. but... you can't really count them, since they're basically an anomaly in lore.

[Larynx]

Of course, elves are a mistake of history.

God damn it Garithos.

[Justpassing]

Isn't Vindicaar actually Exodar rebuilt?

[Frontenac]

Make no mistake the Alliance lost the Allied Races draw.

Lightforged is just another Paladin race the Alliance is already saturated with.
Void Elves VS NIghtborne you has a city and culture the other are some cult that left Silvermoon

But that cult has its story before it, while the Nightborne story is in Legion. Since the game's story will be more and more about Light vs Void, having both Lightforged and Void Elves in the same factions opens up interesting storytelling opportunities...

Also, the Nightborne are not that strong. They barely survived for 10,000 years, cloistered in their city, and they do not control the land around them yet. They should not be ready to join the war that soon, or at least not in great numbers. Not that it has ever stopped Blizzard...

and Zandalari Ancient Empire VS Dark Iron Dwarves. NO brainer right there alliance gets shit on.

Ancient, indeed. Stormwind has more land than this "Empire". An "Empire" that we have defeated again and again. Oh yeah... They have dinosaurs. I admit that they are still better than the Darkspears.

The Dark Irons are actually already in the Alliance, so I suppose it will be those that refused to follow Moira. Nevertheless, they are skilled engineers and excellent blacksmiths. They will be a great help to the Alliance's war machine.

[Trassk]

The thing I realized with the Vindicaar and the light forged draenei, I said it once seeing the line up for Argus, there were no horde characters at all on the Vindicaar or on Argus, and then it pissed me off the idea that we were finally taking the fight to the legion, but they didn't include any characters horde side to join the fight, at least none who had a vocal role, there was like just one appearance of aethas sunreaver fighting demons at the start and that was it.

But it makes sense now why, because blizzard never intended for the horde to have any ties to the events of argus and so making the next expansion war all the easier to force hammer on everyone with less head-scratching.

And the excuse that 'horde players were there' simply did and never will account to anything in the lore, what will only ever matter will be the actual lore figures. My horde characters battled droves of demons on argus, saving light forged draenei all over, and yet come BfA that matters for nothing, hence why they made sure not to have horde characters involved in argus.

If Warcraft had better writers, they could have the care to think about these details, but they don't.

[Nathasil]

The thing I realized with the Vindicaar and the light forged draenei, I said it once seeing the line up for Argus, there were no horde characters at all on the Vindicaar or on Argus, and then it pissed me off the idea that we were finally taking the fight to the legion, but they didn't include any characters horde side to join the fight, at least none who had a vocal role, there was like just one appearance of aethas sunreaver fighting demons at the start and that was it.

But it makes sense now why, because blizzard never intended for the horde to have any ties to the events of argus and so making the next expansion war all the easier to force hammer on everyone with less head-scratching.

And the excuse that 'horde players were there' simply did and never will account to anything in the lore, what will only ever matter will be the actual lore figures. My horde characters battled droves of demons on argus, saving light forged draenei all over, and yet come BfA that matters for nothing, hence why they made sure not to have horde characters involved in argus.

If Warcraft had better writers, they could have the care to think about these details, but they don't.

This is exactly why i'm so pissed about Suramar and Highmountain. Because Blizzard did NOT show Horde as being more present there and it being "their" story. You never expected as an Alliance Player that both of these factions would join the Horde "by default". The way they told Vindicaar and Argus for the Horde may have been disappointing but you at least knew what to expect.

Suramar was far better than Argus as a storyline and player experience - at least for me. You may, of course, disagree....but in my opinion Suramar is multiple dimensions ahead of all the other storylines of Legion ESPECIALLY Argus. And now we find out they created this awesome city and story exclusively for the Horde and merely allowed us Alliance players to play it as well, just because they could not be arsed to make 2 seperate endgame zones? Sorry, but that just feels shit.

Also, on a much more objective level: I don't think adding 6 races is good for the game. If anything, this whole thread shows how many of us feel neglected for different reasons...and while some of that (mine included) may just be whining...there is no doubt Blizzard has NEVER been good with giving all the races, or even the factions, for that matter, equal spotlight and quality of storylines/locations. And many say they should stop trying...maybe they are right...but adding a chunk of 50% playable races on top of what there is now means less spotlight for everyone on average in the future. Is that something we should look forward to? What does it mean for the identity of the two factions? Alliance will stay Human-dominated...there is nothing to fear for Human characters....but the Horde? They already were the Magic-Elf-Faction...upright Orcs and Zandalari may help...we will see.

[Magnagarde]

The Vindicaar is property of the Alliance's draenei anyway, not the lightforged. They're basically just riding shotgun.

[Deleted]

aegwynn at her peak would thrash pre-sundering azshara

Ahaha, sorry, but what Do you say is nonsens, azshara is empowerd by the Well of eternity, she was sinking inside of the well and drunk soo much titanblood, she was before the imploding well much stronger then everything other highborne,destroy with a Single spell a titanartefact like trash. The guardians are so much weaker as azshara, the most powerfull mortal soccerer on azeroth ever.

Ranklist, Well. .

Azshara
Medivh
Xavius
Dath Remar
Elisandre
Aegwynn
Alodi
Thallisra
Kael thas
Prinz farondis
Jaina
Antonidas
Rommath
Khadgar


The Humans are Strong mages, sure, and they are arcane affin (elves and Draenei too) but they aren't the most powerfull mages in the entire past on Azeroth, never been.

[Qualia]

Azshara
Medivh
Xavius
Dath Remar
Elisandre
Aegwynn
Alodi
Thallisra
Kael thas
Prinz farondis
Jaina
Antonidas
Rommath
Khadgar

There are a few things in this list I'm not sure I'd agree. Firstly, there is no way Khadgar is that low. He was referred by Blizzard as "perhaps the most accomplished of all living wizards", so we can at very least move all living wizards (by the time his bio was released) below him - that means Jaina, Rommath, Thalyssra and Elisande. I'm not sure which Xavius you meant - Xavius the Satyr empowered and changed by Sargeras & the Old Gods, might be as powerful as Khadgar or above, but Xavius the NE is definitely below. This is a guy that, by himself, managed to counter Elisande's time spell empowered by the Night Well and the Eye of Aman'thul long enough for us to recover the Elves leaders. I'm not sure how you even put him that low to begin with.

Secondly, Aegwynn is above Medivh. This was stated in "The Tomb of Sargeras" short story ("This place had been fortified centuries ago by Aegwynn, the most powerful Guardian to walk this world."). It was also implied in Chronicle 1 ("The Magi knew that Aegwynn was a sorceress without equal"), and when she defeated Avatar of Sargeras who was trying to kill her. In Chronicle 2, when she fought against Sargeras-Medivh, even after passing majority of her powers to Sargeras-Medivh when she made him a guardian and with Sargeras taking full control, she was still winning to the point that Sargeras grew desperate and had to drain the life of everyone around to fight against her ("Sargeras grew desperate. He reached out to power one final assault. In the same way that Gul'dan had drained the life from the draenei prisoners to activate the Dark Portal, Sargeras ripped the life out of the hundreds humans who were fleeing Karazhan"). So yeah, with that said, there is no way Aegwynn should be below Medivh. Also, taking into account that Azshara (during WoTA) was below Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden in power, while Aegwynn was above the Fallen Avatar, whether Azshara (during / before WoTA) was above the Guardian was very questionable.

In fact, putting Xavius, Dath'remar or Elisande above any Guardian (in this particular case, Aegwynn & Alodi) doesn't make any sense at all. Elisande might prove to be a challenge if we are to allow her to get full access to the Night Well, but the other two wouldn't even make an equal fight. With *maybe* the exception of Azshara, no individual Elves or Humans should be above any of the Guardians. After all, the Guardians were created as a project for a single individual to be empowered with / possess enough power to fight back the Legion's agents single-handedly.

[Nathasil]

Highmountain Tauren could also be a Tauren customization, which they aren't.

Dark Iron could also be a Dwarf customization, which they aren't.

They deviated at some point, and as such, so too did their cultures. But ultimately they are the same race - Just like High and Blood Elves, while different, are the same race.

The fact that they have different cultures is what separates them. The Lightforged will never consider the path of Shadow a viable path, while we've already seen Velen beginning to realize that the Light cannot exist without Shadow, and the duality of the two. That makes them different enough to have different classes available to them, and therefore a different playable race.

Sorry to say...but from what we know so far Lightforged are born as Draenei (or Eredar...they really should go back to their real name now, it sounds better) and simply undergo a ritual that transforms them. Just like Huln was transformed by Cenarius...but not every Highmountain is born with Bull-Horns and then has to venture into the forests, find a wounded moose and gets transformed by Cenarius. That's the difference.

Lightforged are by no definition a race. They are a sorry excuse from Blizzard for not giving a shit about finding a third option for the Alliance that made sense and was not too cool, since all the cool stuff must go to the Horde.

Also, Lightforged can be Priests, that means they can, of course, be Shadow Priests....which means they are just as "shady" as normal Draenei are...they simply ommit the Shaman-Shitshow that never made sese for (non-Broken)Draenei to begin with and was only added for gameplay reasons.

Lightforged are the worst of the worst. Upright Orcs are FAR more destinct from hunched Orcs...and they are FREE and available to existing Orcs. As the "lightforged" ritual should have been for Draenei. But then Blizzard would have had to pull another option from their rear....and their hands were still dirty from Void Elves.

[Deleted]

Oh, xavius was the second highborne in Power, so we knows. The Guardians are powerfull, but haven't more Power as the well of eternity, Look sargeras, the higborned have tried to summon sargeras in the original - size.
Highborne to this time have potential unending Mana, a mage with unending mana have unending Power.

And i not sure but the Novel from kda was many retconnt from time to time. The Chronikles are the newst Work. Look alone elisandre, she lookdowned an entire army with one spell and bind this spell on a manamonster. And Elisandre was a good Equal to the guardians but dath Remar and xavius was stronger then she was.

And the Nightwell is so much weaker as the original Woe.

And Khadgars strenght in Magic abilitys is the very efficient use by himself, the strong weak from him is the low mana what he has.He has not so much mana.

Jaina is a power house of mana but yes, i could wrong with them and Khadgar is about antonidas but not jaina