Republican Tax Plan Revealed

[Resurgo]

Gonna play devil's advocate here. I'm all for single payer healthcare, funded by taxes. But the way the mandate was done was wrong. It was basically forcing you to buy a product from a private company.

probably a bit off the subject of this post, and speaking from someone that leans left, I agree with you.
The problem comes with the fact that both sides are too busy filling their pockets with $$ from the medical industry.

Look up what Skroe has said about Japan's system, and so far, I think that's the most appealing solution, though likely will never get traction so long as corporations are still considered "people".

[Lenonis]

Gonna play devil's advocate here. I'm all for single payer healthcare, funded by taxes. But the way the mandate was done was wrong. It was basically forcing you to buy a product from a private company.

So instead you force the insured to buy heathcare for the uninsured.

I get what you are saying but my point is there is zero way to apply that logic in any sort of consistent manner to support the way we did health insurance and healthcare.

You either are intellectually consistent and advocate that the uninsured die outside the ER, or you admit it's a flawed system and somewhere along the way someone is forced to buy a product they (maybe) don't want.

[Kiri]

Gonna play devil's advocate here. I'm all for single payer healthcare, funded by taxes. But the way the mandate was done was wrong. It was basically forcing you to buy a product from a private company.

Gonna play the devil's devil's advocate then. I think even a lot of people on the left were unhappy with the mandate, but it was the best that could be achieved back then. It was a compromise that made neither side truly happy, but allowed quite a few people access to affordable health care. Now it is being taken off, without any replacements, but instead done to finance tax cuts for corporations.

[PACOX]

How much can they take out of the final bill because I smell some more fuckery in play.

[Shadowferal]

I believe if they alter any language...then it will have to voted upon again.

[Dontrike]

Gonna play devil's advocate here. I'm all for single payer healthcare, funded by taxes. But the way the mandate was done was wrong. It was basically forcing you to buy a product from a private company.

I'm going to bring up car insurance yet again and how we're literally forced to do that exact same thing. No one seems upset we have to do that but when it comes to health suddenly people hate the idea.

[DarkTZeratul]

I'm going to bring up car insurance yet again and how we're literally forced to do that exact same thing. No one seems upset we have to do that but when it comes to health suddenly people hate the idea.

The standard response I see is that you don't have to buy car insurance if you don't drive a car. This does translate somewhat in that people don't want to have to buy health insurance when they're healthy and not going to the doctor, but given the way insurance works that's the entire damn point.

[Breccia]

I believe if they alter any language...then it will have to voted upon again.

Which is why the House has the "fuck it, take the Senate option" as a last resort.

[Trifle]

The standard response I see is that you don't have to buy car insurance if you don't drive a car.

You don't have to buy health insurance if you don't have a body, so that's fairly consistent still. Just most people tend to have bodies.

This does translate somewhat in that people don't want to have to buy health insurance when they're healthy and not going to the doctor, but given the way insurance works that's the entire damn point.

You're conflating the wrong things. People not wanting to buy health insurance when they're healthy is basically exactly the same as not wanting to buy car insurance until they've had an accident.

[Blur4stuff]

I understand folks not wanting to be forced to buy insurance from a private company, but if you don't buy insurance you are forcing everyone else to pay for your healthcare at extremely high prices. No one is immune to sickness or injury. The mandate was a republican idea because they supposedly believe in personal responsibility. They supposedly dislike welfare which is exactly what not buying insurance is like.

At any rate, I think some form of single payer is going to happen as early as the 2020s. The vast majority of Gen X and Millennials are aware that nearly every modernized country on the planet has better healthcare than the US and almost all of them have some form of single payer/nationalized healthcare. As those two generations take over the voter pools we will see these types of changes.

If republicans actually destroy Obamacare it's going to make the system worse. After millions of people have their lives wrecked by such action it will only hasten the arrival of single payer.

[Dontrike]

The standard response I see is that you don't have to buy car insurance if you don't drive a car..

But you have to have insurance if you have a car, and besides why wouldn't you have insurance? The entire point of it is so if one thing happens you don't go into the poor house just because some mediocre thing happened. You have health so therefore you should have insurance for it. You wouldn't buy a house without getting insurance for it and you wouldn't rent an apartment without renter's insurance. That's plain irresponsible from an adult.

I'm rarely sick and thought the same way about health insurance, but even I know that I'd rather pay a certain amount a month so that way if anything that happens to me doesn't bankrupt what little I can save.

[Smitzelplix]

Was this posted yet?

Top GOP congressman: Our tax bill was 'mislabeled' to avoid concerns about Trump's 'net worth and business involvements'

http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-...siness-2017-12

[Breccia]

Was this posted yet?

No. And kudos for that guy for saying so. But, I'm pretty sure everyone already knew that. The news was that Rep actually saying so.

Anything that raises the majority of people in the lower 90%'s taxes in ten years, while lowering it for the majority of the top 10% and corporations, is not a tax cut for the middle class. It is a tax cut for the rich. The could call it the Tax That Gives Every American A Huge Penis and it wouldn't change the contents.

[Poopymonster]

No. And kudos for that guy for saying so. But, I'm pretty sure everyone already knew that. The news was that Rep actually saying so.

Anything that raises the majority of people in the lower 90%'s taxes in ten years, while lowering it for the majority of the top 10% and corporations, is not a tax cut for the middle class. It is a tax cut for the rich. The could call it the Tax That Gives Every American A Huge Penis and it wouldn't change the contents.

To be fair, a majority of those in favor of the Tax That Gives Every American A Huge Penis already are pretty big dicks.

[Breccia]

To be fair, a majority of those in favor of the Tax That Gives Every American A Huge Penis already are pretty big dicks.

Damn, I knew I cocked that joke up.

I guess the question is, would this have gone better if
a) they had been honest, said "this corporate tax reform has a few short-term benefits for you as well, plus trickle down will work this time"
or
b) they lied about it, and as we've seen, got caught lying about it?

[Poopymonster]

Damn, I knew I cocked that joke up.

I guess the question is, would this have gone better if
a) they had been honest, said "this corporate tax reform has a few short-term benefits for you as well, plus trickle down will work this time"
or
b) they lied about it, and as we've seen, got caught lying about it?

It should have been named as intended.

"Short term tax break for you, that may or may not be renewed by the Democrats in power making your taxes going up their fault because we, the Republicans, are so totally fucked!"

[Paranoid Android]

Holy crap': Experts find tax plan riddled with glitches
Some of the provisions could be easily gamed, tax lawyers say.

Republicans’ tax-rewrite plans are riddled with bugs, loopholes and other potential problems that could plague lawmakers long after their legislation is signed into law.

Some of the provisions could be easily gamed, tax lawyers say. Their plans to cut taxes on “pass-through” businesses in particular could open broad avenues for tax avoidance.

I can see this from a mile away. Another loophole where companies or maybe even people will file as to allow more tax avoidance.

The people who always cheer these smart business people or cheer that they are sticking it too the gobernment by avoiding taxes again do not get to play the same game as the rich. Yet they still want to give them all the breaks.

[Breccia]

In case you were wondering if the tax cut for the rich would put coal in your stocking...the answer is literally no.

CEO says late changes to Senate tax-cut bill ‘wipes out' what Trump has done for coal

Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.

“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”

The Senate amended its version of the bill last Friday to keep the alternative minimum tax for businesses in order to pay for other changes to the bill — including a more generous deduction for pass-through businesses and the allowance of a property tax deduction for individuals of up to $10,000.

But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.

The fight over the alternative minimum tax will be an issue in the House–Senate conference. The House bill repeals the tax.

Trump campaigned heavily on revitalizing the coal industry in the U.S. and has made moves to roll back regulations, particularly Obama-era rules related to climate change, that the coal industry has opposed.

Murray has been supportive of Trump’s efforts, telling CNN, “I know he cares about the coal miners and their jobs.” Murray held a fundraiser for Trump in June 2016.

[Dontrike]

In case you were wondering if the tax cut for the rich would put coal in your stocking...the answer is literally no.

CEO says late changes to Senate tax-cut bill ‘wipes out' what Trump has done for coal

What exactly has Trump done for coal?

[Enjoiskate]

What exactly has Trump done for coal?

spread false hope to the poorly educated