What is the logic behind saying Piracy is stealing?

[melodramocracy]

It boils down to words having real meanings you trying to lump things in that don’t fit thoses meanings make you objectively wrong. Piracy is piracy not moral not legal but not theft.

ok.

/10char

[pateuvasiliu]

And you broke the law by accessing it from an illegal source and without paying for it, since the one who uploaded it wasn't allowed to distribute it further. I'm sorry, that's still stealing.

Clearly it's not in a lot of places.

And it's not stealing, it's copying something. The one who shares it still has it in his PC.

[Machismo]

The one I am copying it from did, though. No different from going to a friend to watch a movie.

Your so called morals seem to affect your ability to think. Are you religious, by chance?

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Torrenting isn't illegal in a lot of places. Sorry bud.

You didn't pay for it, you took it without permission of the owner (you'll notice that the person who had the copy doesn't actually own it in most cases by contractual obligation).

I'm not religious at all, I simply don't support people who try and take things that do not belong to them.

[Deleted]

The Dutch firm Ecory was commissioned to research the impact of piracy for several months, eventually submitting a 304-page report to the EU in May 2015. The report concluded that: "In general, the results do not show robust statistical evidence of displacement of sales by online copyright infringements. That does not necessarily mean that piracy has no effect but only that the statistical analysis does not prove with sufficient reliability that there is an effect."

The report found that illegal downloads and streams can actually boost legal sales of games, according to the report. The only negative link the report found was with major blockbuster films: "The results show a displacement rate of 40 per cent which means that for every ten recent top films watched illegally, four fewer films are consumed legally."

Case in point. And it's infringement NOT theft.

[Katchii]

The philosophical discussion doesn't really interest me, the law does. In many places the downloading of stuff without first paying for it is considered illegal, regardless of what they call it; stealing, pirating, illegally downloading, etc...

To your point, @pateuvasiliu about shows not being available right away, and only being available in box sets many weeks or months later, therefore justifying pirating it. That's an argument about instant gratification being a reasonable justification for doing it. Which is a ludicrous argument. It's functionally the same thing as saying I can't afford it for many weeks or months...so I'm just going to steal it now so I can watch it now.

Greed and a lack of self control are not remotely close to a good enough justification for doing something illegal.

[Themius]

Its stealing.

The "I wouldn't have bought it so its not a lost sale" is bullshit. The mere act of acquiring it illustrates it has value to you. If it had no value/was not worth your time, you would not acquire it.

It not being worth the asking price to you isn't a free pass to pirate it.

You people rationalize it by "its just a copy, we aren't physically stealing anything"... Its the same thing. If you steal a TV from a store, you are denying the return on their investment in that TV. The same holds true for a digital item, by freely copying it, you are denying them the return on their investment in that item.

I wouldn't have bought civilization V without first downloading it... I would have bought like 10 different games I ended up not buying because I did download them and disliked them after like an hour of time.

The entire "you're denying them a return on their investment" is just stupid because NO STUDY HAS SHOWN THAT instead it just shows that you can gain new customers....

[TexasRules]

If you found a way to copy it without damaging the one you're copying it wouldn't be theft.



If it's not illegal over here I only have your laws to go by and I don't really care about your laws.

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I wasn't aware there was an universal consensus on morality. Most people I know pirate. You americans aren't able to do that as much because your ISPs spy on what you download and send you warnings.

Well since most people you know pirate things, it must be okay then. If you lived in a crack house where most people abuse crack it would surely be okay, because everyone there does it. It's not that most American's don't pirate because our isp spy on us, most Americans have enough money to afford tv and games. We don't live with our parents and whine about not working enough to buy things, we simply have ambition. The moral high ground comes from us not needing to do illegal things to get piddly little shit stuff we can buy any day we want.

[Sorshen]

It's almost like the media industry hasn't evolved. Their business model still equates a potential sale to real money that has been lost. It's retarded. They need to adapt. This decade, hopefully.




Tho a bit old, this video is spot on.

[Evangeliste]

The one I am copying it from did, though. No different from going to a friend to watch a movie.

Your so called morals seem to affect your ability to think. Are you religious, by chance?

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Torrenting isn't illegal in a lot of places. Sorry bud.

Actually, only 4 places in the world is it legal - and as personal use only. Google my friend. The other 200 odd countries of the world however, it is illegal.

[TexasRules]

Clearly it's not in a lot of places.

And it's not stealing, it's copying something. The one who shares it still has it in his PC.

Anyone else feel like you are in Chasing Amy and pate keeps getting called a tracer?

[Hiricine]

Its entirely out of patent law, which isn't a great philosophical concept. The premise is that someone can own an idea, or the product of an idea as an incentive to create more ideas. If every time you grew a grape it belonged to anyone who wanted it, the grape would have a lot less value to the person growing it, by the same token, if your idea (or intellectual property, for this sake) belonged to anyone who wanted it, itd be a lot less valuable to you and you'd be less inclined to have it in the first place. So the legal standard of a patent was created, to give value to intellectual property so that you'd have more of it, and theres at least some evidence to suggest that its very effective in that way.

Of course from a legal standpoint, people are rarely charged for owning stolen IP, but primarily for distributing it. The cases are almost always against the torrent websites themselves, or in the case of individual users on the basis not that they owe 20$ for a pirated property in their possession but the 100,000 copies they torrented to other people.

[LiiLoSNK]

I think shitposting twice is way worse. Get out please.

Piracy = illegal copying.
/thread

Look at me I'm a genius! Now onto more pressing matters, why is everyone freaking out about Y2K?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't think that the belief in the selfish act of taking things that do not belong to you is shitty thing to do... is an example of a crappy value. Once again, you are the one trying to justify the taking of things that do not belong to you. yeah, that's something shitty people do.

I haven’t tried to justify any thing I’ve flat out stated it’s not moral. Fact is it’s not theft and simply doing something umoral doesn’t make some one a bad person unless it’s something huge like rape murder ect.

[Rosefern]

I think it's already been said here a few times, but its the theft of intellectual property and the theft of potential earnings.
Your original post said you personally "would not have spent money on it anyway", except that not the case for a ton of people who pirate.

If every movie ever torrented could be argued that "well i wouldn't have bought a movie ticket or dvd anyways so i just torrented it and everybody's money neutral...it would be flat out lie.

[Deleted]

The one I am copying it from did, though. No different from going to a friend to watch a movie.

Your so called morals seem to affect your ability to think. Are you religious, by chance?

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Torrenting isn't illegal in a lot of places. Sorry bud.

I never said it was. I said unlawfully distributing copyrighted material is theft. Torrenting in itself isn't illegal, but the contents of some torrents is illegal.

So here's something you said.

I will happily redirect you towards some English lessons to deal with your lacking Reading Comprehension.

[pateuvasiliu]

You didn't pay for it, you took it without permission of the owner (you'll notice that the person who had the copy doesn't actually own it in most cases by contractual obligation).

I'm not religious at all, I simply don't support people who try and take things that do not belong to them.

How is it on a torrent site without the owner uploading it?

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I never said it was. I said unlawfully distributing copyrighted material is theft. Torrenting in itself isn't illegal, but the contents of some torrents is illegal.

So here's something you said.

In your country, maybe.

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Piracy = illegal copying.
?

It's not illegal though

[chazus]

They get the same money, ONE subscription.

Except they do lose 10,000 views, or whatever. instead of just that one friend. That's.. kind of the point. One is paid for, but 99,999 aren't.

As for passwords, not a good example. My passwords can be used to cause me loss. Me not paying to watch Game of Thrones causes no loss.

I said 'passwords and everything'. Bank account info. SS info. personal info. Everything. Lets assume they aren't going to drain your bank account, but are you totally okay with some random dude having all of your personal/federal info?

[Themius]

I think it's already been said here a few times, but its the theft of intellectual property and the theft of potential earnings.
Your original post said you personally "would not have spent money on it anyway", except that not the case for a ton of people who pirate.

If every movie ever torrented could be argued that "well i wouldn't have bought a movie ticket or dvd anyways so i just torrented it and everybody's money neutral...it would be flat out lie.

The only large study on it goes against what you're saying though... in the case of games it can boost sales... since you know demos have gone the way of the dodo.

Does some person in a Saudi Arabia downloading a movie affect the bottom line? No... no it doesn't.

Does the movie being torrented by a person who wouldn't have watched the movie regardless any other way affect the bottom line? No it doesn't...

[pateuvasiliu]

Well since most people you know pirate things, it must be okay then. If you lived in a crack house where most people abuse crack it would surely be okay, because everyone there does it. It's not that most American's don't pirate because our isp spy on us, most Americans have enough money to afford tv and games. We don't live with our parents and whine about not working enough to buy things, we simply have ambition. The moral high ground comes from us not needing to do illegal things to get piddly little shit stuff we can buy any day we want.

Oh my god, sorry that was so funny.

Taking pride in having ISPs that spy on you and then thinking anyone who doesn't is some basement dweller.

Absolutely cute.

[Deleted]

I think it's already been said here a few times, but its the theft of intellectual property and the theft of potential earnings.
Your original post said you personally "would not have spent money on it anyway", except that not the case for a ton of people who pirate.

If every movie ever torrented could be argued that "well i wouldn't have bought a movie ticket or dvd anyways so i just torrented it and everybody's money neutral...it would be flat out lie.

Only that's not what the research shows as i've shown a few posts back. It IS money neutral except in some cases of big blockbusters (Cry me a river billionaires)

Also we're infringing on their copyright, not stealing it.